Originally posted by soulforge
Ever notice that some Europeans sound a lot like your parents?
"You don't know what you're talking about. When you get as old as us YOU, will understand."
"Obviously you're wrong, you just don't see the big picture."
"What do you know, you're only 200 years old..."
LOL...Really, I get a bit sick of European High handedness. Sure, Americans are just as arrogant, so maybe it's just a taste of our own medicine.
- .....and if Europeans were here discussing America in a manner totally at odds with the actual reality of America would you not start saying that
they didn't understand or that they didn't know what they are talking about?
(...er, look around at the various threads!
a taste of your own medicine indeed.
By the way who said anything about a "big picture" or "When you get as old as us YOU, will understand."?
I brought the age of the USA
into this in a response to an earlier comment.
The comparison between the several much older cultures in Europe are in no way comparible to the much younger (and - then - no culture) states as they
came together to form the USA.
This is not "high-handedness" this is simply to point out the very clear absurdity of the parallel that a poster attempted to draw; well, it's
clear to anyone who is the least bit informed and who has given the matter any thought beyond the most innane and superficial that is.
To state the facts of a matter clearly and correctly is not arrogant.
Maybe a degree of exasperation at the level of ill-informed comment about Europe and the EU comes in but that is not 'arrogant'.
I'm not going to say that either system is better, just different.
- I have merely described how things are.
Whether you think one better than the other or not is up to you..... and me, your and my free choice....but I don't think this has been a debate
about the merits of one over the other.
It's next to impossible to debate that if those debating the matter don't understand the way things are in the first place.
....and to return to topic the matter of this new(ish) EU-wide military co-operation is nothing like an imagined embryo military superpower.
If you guys can live with it, fine. I'm just saying that I wouldn't.
- Well if your judgement is actually based on the reality of what is going on here, then fine.
But I have to say many of you guys could hardly make it clearer that you really have little or no idea how our systems actually work - and are
therefore judging things on a flawed basis.
We are not anything like (kinda or otherwise) the USA and it's federal state system......nor an confederal state system either!
I'm just saying there WILL be a state of Germany, France, Italy, Sweden, etc. withing the European Union.
- No, sorry; this will not do.
There already are member states within the EU - now 25 of them - called Germany, France, Italy, Sweden etc etc.
What do you mean?
This IS just like the states rights arguments in the U.S. in the early 1800s.
- I am telling you this is plain wrong.
Those 'states' are nations states; nothing like your 'states'.
I keep asking but you guys merely repeat your original ludicrous assertion.....given that the nation states have full democratic voting rights
including the power of veto - and can leave the EU any time they want
.....by what possible stretch of the imagination would any(!)
the ancient nations of Europe vote themselves into or be 'forced' into a position of mere 'state-hood'?
The idea is as laughable as it is impossible. Wise up.
They are nothing like
the early states that went on to become the USA.
By the same token the EU does not function in any way like the US federal gov.
I really wish you guys would stop drawing such unhelpful and inaccurate parallels.
You might think it helps you understand it but it really doesn't.
I'm just really curious about what will happen over the next twenty years.
- No doubt it'll be similar to the last (nearly) 50yrs of growing voluntary free democratic European co-operation.
I'd expect the wealth of Europe to grow and for Europe to be the single largest trading block on the planet.....oh, look at that, we already are
....well, ok, to maintain and extend that position.
I'd expect an expansion to 27 countries soon (within the next 5yrs) and maybe to 30 obver the next 20yrs.
Our population to grow from it's current approx 470million to around 550millions.
As long as anti-american forces don't take control, I'm just fine with the EU.
- Hmmm, these days not being adequately 'pro-America' seems sufficent to get one denounced as 'anti-American'.
But, in the long run, we're both going to have to be careful of the dragon on the horizon. Senile old men with money, men, arms, and ideology
make for a dangerous future for all of us. They'll either try to buy us both out or stomp us out. Not sure which...
- .....and then there is the dangerous blinkered 'tomorrow belong to me' bold assertive arrogance of (some of) the very young which seem to believe
all the lessons of what has gone before worthless.
That's one well worth keeping an eye on too, hmm.
[edit on 12-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]