Voter ID Bill question.

Recently the Gov. of NC signed a bill that would require voters to show valid ID when voting. Now aparently I am really slow, because to me, this just makes sense. In fact, I am quite surprised that up until now, you didn't have to. So here I am, completely confused as to why anyone would be opposed to this unless............... unless they were the type to vote early and vote often.

Please explain why this isn't a good idea. I promise I will listen, I just don't get it.

Edit to add:
I am completely aware that my, or anyone else's vote for POTUS means nothing, I am referring to the local elections, where your vote does actually count.

Apparently you are

Did you miss these little things that were included in the bill?

The bill reduces early voting by a week,
Eliminates same day registration
Ends pre-registration for 16-17 year olds
Eliminates an annual state sponsored voter registration drive

I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple of more things, but as you can see it's not only aimed at preventing "voter fraud" but it's also aimed at reducing the electorate.

reply to post by network dude

Please explain why this isn't a good idea. I promise I will listen, I just don't get it.

A cerrtian political group opposed voter ID laws because they are to afraid they can't win a fair election.

Which is why they oppose voter ID laws.

Those same people who cry over voter ID laws saying they oppress people don't have a problem with making those same people show ID to buy firearms.

That is the issue in a nutshell.

reply to post by muse7


I guess I still don't get it. When you are 18 you can register to vote. It's really easy. Once you are registered, you can vote all you like. Once per election. The things in the bill that seem to stifle known voter fraud techniques make perfect sense. I feel like the opposition to this is bringing hypothetical ideals to the table instead of reality. Kids who are soon to be 18 can vote. Apparently if you turn 18 on voting day, you may have to wait another year. I would guess that one will find a way to get fixed since if you are legal age, then you should be able to vote. But we are talking about a very small portion of America. (NC for this bill). Only the voters who's 18th Birthday falls on voting day. If you are very politically motivated, then you will do all that is necessary to make your vote count. If you are a fraud looking to use the names of the recently dead to vote more than once, then perhaps this bill would upset you.

The main complaint seems to the the ID thing. Do you have an answer for that?

reply to post by network dude


I think you and I are both challenged for getting it. It seems like common sense stuff to me. Nothing this includes looks discriminatory in any way because it can't be said to be specific or aimed at any one person over another.

Showing ID ought to be common sense. We can't cash a check without it but we can vote in the man controlling enough Nuclear power, personally, to end Human life? Errr... Malfunction Junction straight ahead....look for the Ballot signs.

reply to post by network dude


It's an ok policy as long as the State is the one responsible to make sure every eligible voter gets an ID. Meaning there is no fee and that they are mailed out free of charge to the voters instead of requiring voters to go somewhere and get the ID themselves.

Also, if you for some reason you forget or lose your ID (because those things happen) and you go to vote, you should still be allowed to cast your vote as a provisional ballot and give that voter a chance and period of time to get a new ID or have the State verify their eligibility.

With todays technology, requiring people to carry an ID as a new process seems kind of dumb. If a state wants to do this, then have a database of eligible voters and take their picture and store it when they register to vote, also give them a physical ID. Then when you go to vote, if you forgot your photo ID, they can look you up in the database and verify a photo identification through that.

Bottom line is I don't think the problem is the verification, it is the method in which Republicans are doing it which puts a huge burden on some voters to get IDs, especially those who are low income living in large cities. For example, if they designate ONE place to get your ID in the city...it makes it hard for low income people with few transportation options to get to that ONE place to get the ID.

reply to post by network dude

The things in the bill that seem to stifle known voter fraud techniques make perfect sense. I feel like the opposition to this is bringing hypothetical ideals to the table instead of reality.

Actually the hypothetical IS voter fraud.

Study after study have been done and none of them find any statistical significant voter fraud.

Voter ID laws, as created currently, prevent a large number of people from voting.

Source

September 04, 2012

On Thursday, a federal court blocked a Texas voter-identification law that the three-judge panel said would unnecessarily burden poor, minority citizens from exercising their right to vote. The court cited the fact that many Texans would have to travel up to 250 miles round-trip to get a free “election-ID certificate” and that the $22 cost to obtain an ID without a birth certificate was too much of a burden. The judges said, “A law that forces poorer citizens to choose between their wages and their franchise unquestionably denies or abridges their right to vote. … Simply put, many Hispanics and African Americans who voted in the last election will, because of the burdens imposed by [the voter-ID law], likely be unable to vote in the next election.”

And though having ID might seem like a simple requirement, 11 percent of voting-age Americans don’t have ID. That’s 21 million people. The numbers are scarier for the elderly and women: 18 percent of people over the age of 65 don’t have a current ID, and only 66 percent of women voters have proof of citizenship that reflects their current name. The vast majority of women change their names if they get married, and most voter-ID rules require that your registration name match your photo ID name exactly.

It's not a black and white political issue. The fact of the matter is that voter fraud is mostly perpetuated at the campaign level as it's gotta be highly organized.

2nd, for the reasons listed above, among others, there are a huge number of people who cannot partake in elections in some states now, unless they PAY for the right documentation.

I don't know about you, but this whole ' show me your papers bull', didn't work out so well the last time.
~Tenth

reply to post by neo96


You'll find the voter frauds with the gun-grabbers and UN resolution pushers. In the debunked conspiracy aisle.

All that is BS myth pushed by the white right.

11% of US citizens don't have the ID required to vote according to standards recently applied in NC. Those people need to go somewhere and buy something.

www.propublica.org...

Thought the White Right soldiers would be whining about a poll tax? No, that one is welcome to the Fascists because it prevents the undeserving class of parasites from voting themselves benefits.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Voter ID laws, as created currently, prevent a large number of people from voting.

Source

September 04, 2012

On Thursday, a federal court blocked a Texas voter-identification law that the three-judge panel said would unnecessarily burden poor, minority citizens from exercising their right to vote. The court cited the fact that many Texans would have to travel up to 250 miles round-trip to get a free “election-ID certificate” and that the $22 cost to obtain an ID without a birth certificate was too much of a burden. The judges said, “A law that forces poorer citizens to choose between their wages and their franchise unquestionably denies or abridges their right to vote. … Simply put, many Hispanics and African Americans who voted in the last election will, because of the burdens imposed by [the voter-ID law], likely be unable to vote in the next election.”

And though having ID might seem like a simple requirement, 11 percent of voting-age Americans don’t have ID. That’s 21 million people. The numbers are scarier for the elderly and women: 18 percent of people over the age of 65 don’t have a current ID, and only 66 percent of women voters have proof of citizenship that reflects their current name. The vast majority of women change their names if they get married, and most voter-ID rules require that your registration name match your photo ID name exactly.

It's not a black and white political issue. The fact of the matter is that voter fraud is mostly perpetuated at the campaign level as it's gotta be highly organized.

2nd, for the reasons listed above, among others, there are a huge number of people who cannot partake in elections in some states now, unless they PAY for the right documentation.

I don't know about you, but this whole ' show me your papers bull', didn't work out so well the last time.
~Tenth

Please show me anyone who cannot "afford" a picture ID. Anyone. Did you know to cash your welfare or social security check you need a picture ID? So who exactly are you referring to? Homeless people who vote? I mean really this argument is so ludicrous.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

he court cited the fact that many Texans would have to travel up to 250 miles round-trip to get a free “election-ID certificate” and that the $22 cost to obtain an ID without a birth certificate was too much of a burden.

Tenth tell me you don't really believe that ?

Please.

First off last month had to renew my car tags, don't get to pick those up at the local DMV anymore they are mailed.

Then considering A person needs ID to apply for social programs, they need ID to buy Alcohol,smokes, open a bank account, and to drive, and work IDs, and the list goes on.

Voter ID is not a 'burden' on the poor, and even if it was why do they not offer a 'subsidy' or a tax credit for it ?

See from where I sit opposition to voter ID is ridiculous.

maybe i'm a skeptic cause i come from vote faud capital...ie. illinois . but, do you really think your vote counts at the the local level?

but, yeah , i think any and everyone should show ID before voteing .

reply to post by network dude

Please explain why this isn't a good idea. I promise I will listen, I just don't get it.

Unless they are giving these ID's out to vote then the government is essentially making citizens PAY in order to vote... which is bad.

Nothing this includes looks discriminatory in any way because it can't be said to be specific or aimed at any one person over another.

It is completely aimed at two groups of people- democrats and minorities who both do more early voting than the GOP base.

Also, you can't say that the constitution won't allow any limits on buying guns and then say it does allow limiting peoples' access to voting. Either they're both 100% unregulated, or they or not. If you want to hamper peoples' voting then you have to allow hampering people buying assault weapons.

reply to post by jjkenobi

Please show me anyone who cannot "afford" a picture ID

I lost my license last presidential election. I couldn't afford to buy a new one in time..... but they didn't even ask to see an ID so I could vote anyway.

Things like that happen.

Oh, and I'd imagine a lot of 18 year olds are pretty broke as well.

reply to post by InverseLookingGlass


Nice race baiting

Bet they produce an ID to sign up for welfare

Bet they produce an ID to pawn stuff

Bet they produce an ID to get check advances.

Originally posted by WaterBottle
reply to post by network dude

 

Please explain why this isn't a good idea. I promise I will listen, I just don't get it.

Unless they are giving these ID's out to vote then the government is essentially making citizens PAY in order to vote... which is bad.

They will be making the IDs free. Also, if you need a birth certificate to get an ID, that will be free too.
There is really no reason not to implement this.

reply to post by neo96


I'm just going by what I read Neo. Weren't those conservative Texan judges?

We don't have that issue in Canada, so I'm an outsider looking in. I don't know how those costs correlate to the average voter.

Just seems dumb to put up barriers to voting. I'm not in disagreement with having to provide ID, I have a problem with all of these technicalities and changes to voter length etc, on the basis that voter fraud is a real problem, when in fact stats would suggest it is not.

~Tenth

reply to post by network dude


About 11-15% of the US population does not have a photo-ID...you can google it up, non-partisan studies.

Of those...the majority are African-Americans, elderly and the poor...and they most often live in urban centers..Cities.

So yes the law targets minorities & poor aka Democrats in todays political climate.

Furthermore these laws serve as a vehicle for further voter suppression...as Totem pointed out TX charged $22 plus placed the offices where the IDs could be obtained over 100 miles from where minorities were concentrated.

Not to mention they shortened early voting...working poor can't take super-tuesday off to vote.

They eliminated college voting drives...apparently college kids favor Democrats..

Nixed Sunday voting...African-American churches usually sponsor busses to take thier congregations to vote.

etc. etc.

In the end I am not overly concerned...The GOP has not won the Majority Vote for President, except once in the past 24 years...And the demographics are working against them...America is getting browner and poorer...

So Voter Suppression appears to me a desperate attempt to undermine the elections...but the American public will REACT by further punishing the GOP.

Thier best hope would be to change thier platform to appeal to more folks...but they keep retreating closer to thier extreme base with these efforts. They live in a bubble...this will backfire...another evening of Karl Rove with that WTF look on his face is on it's way in the comming elections. They will hold the house barely...due to redistricting and gerry-mandering/but that is only temporary and will erode because of changing demographics...but they will get nowhere near the Whitehouse in 2016.

Just one example;

Richard “Pete” Gilbert, the county GOP chairman — who was acting only as a citizen of the county — brought the voter registration challenges before the local BOE.

The outcome – 57 of the 60 challenges were sustained – means that 57 voters were found to have committed voter fraud. In other words, the board decided that the evidence Mr. Gilbert provided proved that those voters did not live where they said they lived when they voted in November 2012. Maybe even more troubling is that 52 of these voters could not be located at all, as their first-class mail was returned “undeliverable.”

Cases Show How Easy Vote Fraud Is in NC

how many go 'undetected' ?

Hmmm.