How DNA killed Evolution

reply to post by undo


So as a disbeliever of evolution. You deny the fact that atoms have characteristics that allow them to,by physical law, interact with one another in ways to create stars, and planets that orbit those stars, and by physical law, for a planet to have a massive quantity of atoms, and a massive quantity of radiation from the sun constantly pouring over this planet, and you are denying the ability for these atoms to form structures like rocks, and rivers, and grass, and trees? And most importantly you are denying the ability for these atoms to interact and form simple cells, and then organisms, etc.?

If not that, what do you propose is truth?

reply to post by ImaFungi


didn't say i was a disbeliever in evolution. i asked if you were.

reply to post by undo


What do you believe is the truth? You have said a lot of confusing things, about the bible, and all sorts of things. It seems you think atheists are wrong, and upset with the church for creating atheists, as you believe that is how atheists exist. So you believe the bible is true? Or you believe aliens made life on earth? And/or you believe God created the universe?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by undo

 

What do you believe is the truth? You have said a lot of confusing things, about the bible, and all sorts of things. It seems you think atheists are wrong, and upset with the church for creating atheists, as you believe that is how atheists exist. So you believe the bible is true? Or you believe aliens made life on earth? And/or you believe God created the universe?

obviously, people wouldn't become immune to antibiotics if evolution wasn't true. that's not the point. the case is not does it happen, the case is does it always happen and what are its limitations. i think where human dna is concerned, it can only change in small ways, and even with the accumulation of small changes, it doesn't herald new species but rather destruction of the species. in effect, animals evolve, but intelligent sentient overseers, are created because sentience is not a mechanism of evolution we are a designer species

i think most of the texts of the ancient world are telling the truth as far as they are able to. and that there are ages on earth, where each epoch if you will, was governed by an intelligent, sentient species from that same type of life form, capable of acting as overseers and created specifically for that reason. i think there was an amphibian sentient species, a reptile sentient species and there is currently a mammalian sentient species on this planet. i think you will find they coincide exactly with greys = amphibians, reptilians = reptiles and the adam = mammals.

you asked.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by solomons path

 

have you ever read ezekiel chapter 1?

Yes I have.

Have you ever read Homer's Illiad or Odyssey? The Life of Apollonius of Tyana? The poetry of Rumi? Se-Osiris and Setna's visit to Duat?

Ever hear of ergot or psilocybin?

How about peduncular hallucinosis or focal epilepsy?

Or should I disregard all of these possibilities for the extremely logical notion of factual account of Seraphim or ET visitation?

reply to post by solomons path


what about a fiery hole forming in the sky? isn't that a black hole? and a flying platform containing someone who "looked" like god, coming out of it? isn't that a spaceship? what's god look like? even the levites were not allowed to see god in the holy of holies. this is where i suspected the old testament was an egyptian book in disguise. the guy who "looked like" god coming out of the hole in the sky on a flying throne was someone who looked like atum, the god of creation. and atum, looked like an egyptian pharaoh. and the flying throne looked like a pyramid. something like this



ya know i watched an interesting science program on how the physicists now believe the universe was created by black holes, super massive black holes, to be precise. well if it was a means of conveyance for what/whoever that was that came out of one in ezekiel 1, i suspect there's alot more going on than you are willing to admit may even be possible, because you have only one part of a gigantic puzzle and you're not willing to consider anything else. just that one piece -- created no less, by the roman empire, so you could use it like a battering rod to keep the people from recognizing the science in ancient texts.

reply to post by undo


Thanks for being honest, I sincerely appreciate it. What exactly has lead you so strongly to that conclusion?

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity

Originally posted by abeverage
reply to post by th3onetruth

 

I am curious what if they found the Universe is artificial, Sort of like the Matrix? Science finds out through an experiment that this and everything we see is a simulation.

This is not from a Christian stand point at all but could the earth be 6,000 years old then? If everything we see is a construct isn't in arbitrary?

Just something I have been wondering...

Mental masturbation while it might be entertaining rarely produces much fruit.

What a strangely odd and rude comment. What was your point in this thread an ego drive?

I am curious to do you believe in god?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by undo

 

Thanks for being honest, I sincerely appreciate it. What exactly has lead you so strongly to that conclusion?

i can't take any low level antibiotics, they no longer work when i get an infection. only 1st tier stuff, like vancomycin, zithromycin and cipro. so obviously, something in my body mutated, which is an example of micro evolution. but in a human i think too many micro evolutions leads to death not a different species with improved abilities. the only time this seems to vary is when it is artificially modified. i read artificially modifed as SUPERnatural. when nature is changed, artificially, it does so by interference from sentience.

The most sophisticated information system that we know of did not just happen by chance. Sorry.

Even if it had(the chances are near 0), what then are the odds that this phenomenon took place on the perfect stage for carbon life(earth)?

And then we've just been lucky enough for these simple cells to live on and create brains and ankles and such? The engineering behind these things is unbelievable. These things will fail because we are not immortal beings yet, but I find it very far fetched that mutations ended up creating these insanely sophisticated things that we observe in nature. Who wrote these programs? It's a language by all definitions....

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by solomons path

 

what about a fiery hole forming in the sky? isn't that a black hole? and a flying platform containing someone who "looked" like god, coming out of it? isn't that a spaceship? what's god look like? even the levites were not allowed to see god in the holy of holies. this is where i suspected the old testament was an egyptian book in disguise. the guy who "looked like" god coming out of the hole in the sky on a flying throne was someone who looked like atum, the god of creation. and atum, looked like an egyptian pharaoh. and the flying throne looked like a pyramid. something like this


ya know i watched an interesting science program on how the physicists now believe the universe was created by black holes, super massive black holes, to be precise. well if it was a means of conveyance for what/whoever that was that came out of one in ezekiel 1, i suspect there's alot more going on than you are willing to admit may even be possible, because you have only one part of a gigantic puzzle and you're not willing to consider anything else. just that one piece -- created no less, by the roman empire, so you could use it like a battering rod to keep the people from recognizing the science in ancient texts.

edit on 14-8-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

The only one not willing to admit to possibilities is you. I offered several alternative possibilities to the account in Ezekiel . . . all of which have just as much evidence as a possibility, as extra-terrestrials or "gods".

It could be a complete work of fiction. It could be a matter of hallucination, due to medical condition or substance. It could be a dream. It could be a psychological delusion. All possibilities equal in weight and evidence to the possibility of visitation.

What I'm asking you for, once again, is evidence. Critical thinking. What you have offered is your belief, one that when challenged creates "frustration" or cognitive dissonance.

Is other-worldly visitation a possibility. Sure. However, some conditions must be met before it is even on equal footing, in regards to likelihood, as any of the other possibilities I've mentioned.

First, there is absolutely no empirical or even circumstantial evidence for the supernatural, outside of the bible, so let's focus on extra-terrestrial. We know life exists and can become intelligent . . . it happened here. We know there are other planets in the universe and many that may be able to support life. (all circumstantial evidence) Now before we just jump to "story's true - must be aliens" . . . the conditions that evidence must be provided for. No evidence that there IS life on other planets to this point. No evidence that IF there is life it is evolved to become intelligent. No evidence that IF intelligent they have technologically advanced to a point where interstellar travel is possible. No evidence that IF they have the ability to travel that they have travelled here. On top of that, no evidence that Ezekiel was even a real person.

You have rejected all of these possibilities in order to feed your personal beliefs with a story that fits nicely in the box you've put it . . . no matter how unlikely it seems compared to the ever-so-likely possibility based on the available evidence, which is it is a complete work of fiction meant to shepherd and keep the belief in a "god" that has let his people fall into slavery in Babylon.

Let's look at the possibility that Ezekiel was real . . . what does the papacy or romans have to do with what I think of this story? Nothing. Ezekiel and his visions were written at a time when the Israelites were exiled to Babylon and Mesopotamia. The book of Ezekiel appears in the Masoretic Text cultivated and curated during and after exile and is part of a collection of works stressing loyalty to Yahweh, which had fallen away from the people during Assyrian and Babylonian rule.

I'm not closed to the possibilities . . . I'm closed to the notion of excepting something as truthful without any evidence to support it. I'm closed to the idea that a archaic mythological text is evidence for the supernatural or extra-terrestrial, just as I am closed to the idea that Apollonius fought and killed a griffin or Thor battled the Midgaard serpent based solely on the writings of similar superstitious cultures. Unfortunately, you present your arguments as having some credence (DNA, RNA, Ezekiel's visions) when you have no evidence to support. And, while you're free to believe what you wish, don't be surprised when those that deal in reason/logic ask for the extraordinary evidence required for your extraordinary claims . . . And, yes . . . I know they are not your claims, as they have been propagated as long as I've been reading up on stuff like this (going on 40yrs now).

Originally posted by sdb93awd
The most sophisticated information system that we know of did not just happen by chance. Sorry.

Even if it had(the chances are near 0), what then are the odds that this phenomenon took place on the perfect stage for carbon life(earth)?

And then we've just been lucky enough for these simple cells to live on and create brains and ankles and such? The engineering behind these things is unbelievable. These things will fail because we are not immortal beings yet, but I find it very far fetched that mutations ended up creating these insanely sophisticated things that we observe in nature. Who wrote these programs? It's a language by all definitions....

The fact that you claim DNA "just happened by chance" shows just how little you know about what you say "isn't possible". Happening without intelligent direction doesn't equate to "chance" . . . chemical bonds and the attraction between different amino acid groups are a predetermined thing. It is not about "odds" when the right elements and correct conditions pre-exist.

As the old commercial said "the mind is a terrible thing to waste . . . "

reply to post by solomons path


but it wasn't cultivated in babylon. it predated babylon. the sumerian-akkadian texts have the same stories, the only difference being that the main character of the flood story is not called noah (doesn't mean much since many old stories have characters who are not called by their real names but rather their titles, associated with what made them important in the first place), and the adam was called the adapa and the elohim were called the anunnaki. these are essentially the same stories.

for example, elohim can be traced etymologically back to alulim, the very first name on the sumerian kings list. it's actually a plural word.

the stories that came after the flood were almost entirely egyptian and babylonian including the story of jesus, who identified himself as the first pharaoh and the last pharaoh. and the references to Amen, which is sumerian Anu, the references to Hayah (the root word of jehovah), who was sumerian Ea (Enki) and of course, Enlil, who is the name of Anunnaki who was in charge of the planet. He owned the place and didn't like the humans Ea had created on it.

there's more than one flood in the flood passages in the bible, written by 3 different authors. one flood was global and resulted in the saving of the genomes of the various lifeforms on the planet. i theorize this was done by having samples of their dna and then when the creation passages open in genesis, you are seeing the re-creating and re-terraforming of the planet following a global cataclysm associated with the ice age and punctuated by a global flood. the other was not global but was very bad, and resulted in the saving of the royal barnyard, which amounted to 32 animals.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by solomons path

 

but it wasn't cultivated in babylon. it predated babylon. the sumerian-akkadian texts have the same stories, the only difference being that the main character of the flood story is not called noah (doesn't mean much since many old stories have characters who are not called by their real names but rather their titles, associated with what made them important in the first place), and the adam was called the adapa and the elohim were called the anunnaki. these are essentially the same stories.

for example, elohim can be traced etymologically back to alulim, the very first name on the sumerian kings list. it's actually a plural word.

the stories that came after the flood were almost entirely egyptian and babylonian including the story of jesus, who identified himself as the first pharaoh and the last pharaoh. and the references to Amen, which is sumerian Anu, the references to Hayah (the root word of jehovah), who was sumerian Ea (Enki) and of course, Enlil, who is the name of Anunnaki who was in charge of the planet. He owned the place and didn't like the humans Ea had created on it.

there's more than one flood in the flood passages in the bible, written by 3 different authors. one flood was global and resulted in the saving of the genomes of the various lifeforms on the planet. i theorize this was done by having samples of their dna and then when the creation passages open in genesis, you are seeing the re-creating and re-terraforming of the planet following a global cataclysm associated with the ice age and punctuated by a global flood. the other was not global but was very bad, and resulted in the saving of the royal barnyard, which amounted to 32 animals.

edit on 14-8-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

You've moved the goal posts again . . . We weren't discussing the books of Moses. And, on those I agree. They are represented previously in Mesopotamia. We were discussing the book of Ezekiel and his visions. Those originate from the period of captivity in Babylon.

reply to post by solomons path


yes the river khebar, that was near nippur, enlil's city, otherwise known as nibru, on the euphrates. that's not the only example either. the pseudopigraphical text called the book of enoch, has a story where enoch is literally taken up in a ship and ends up viewing, first hand, a super massive black hole, complete with a description of the ascending and descending pillars of radiation that emits from them when they are in active phase and stars circling it, caught in its gravity well. and there are other hints of these things all over the ancient texts. our ancestors saw some serious sh it.

You know what really odd to me, you can think things through so well,
or at least you read background info on what ever it is your posting
about, which shows you have critical thinking ability, problem with this
is: even if you managed to disprove evolution, like you claim, yet i still
don't see your Nobel prize for making such a breakthrough in science,
you would still be at square on with intelligent design, proving there is
a god still kinda needs to be done you see.

Even if evolution were wrong all around, it still doesn't mean god made
us, that is like saying since blue isn't black then it must be green because
its not black. disproving one does not prove the other. yet i still fail to see
how you can assume that you have proven evolution false all together,
you seem to be finding cases where certain things might have been
falsified to attain an outcome, there again fraud happens in every
walk of life, science included, that does not mean religion has more or
even as much merit as science, it simply means there are con men
in every walk of life......

reply to post by bloodreviara

yet i still don't see your Nobel prize

you didn't just say that? lol

Originally posted by undo
i can't take any low level antibiotics, they no longer work when i get an infection. only 1st tier stuff, like vancomycin, zithromycin and cipro. so obviously, something in my body mutated, which is an example of micro evolution.

Wrong conclusion. Your problem would imply that you get repeatedly infected by antibiotic resistant bacteria..

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by undo
i can't take any low level antibiotics, they no longer work when i get an infection. only 1st tier stuff, like vancomycin, zithromycin and cipro. so obviously, something in my body mutated, which is an example of micro evolution.

Wrong conclusion. Your problem would imply that you get repeatedly infected by antibiotic resistant bacteria..

ahhh, thanks. i went and read up on it.