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The futility of Falluja?

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posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 04:39 AM
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I think anyone browsing here would have picked up the fact that the insurgents had left long before the military arrived.

So based on that foreknowledge, which the military MUST have had as well, just what was the purpose of the attack? Was it just stubbon mindedness (we are going to attack anyway dammit, if they are there or not!), the need to be seen as being sucessful at something, ....

Or is it to remove their nest permanatly....


www.kvia.com...

FALLUJAH, Iraq It seems everyone knew about the U-S push into Fallujah before it started -- including the insurgents.
U-S and Iraqi government warnings gave militants plenty of time to get out of town. One U-S Army officer says, "We gave them so much fair warning that the only ones who stayed had a death wish."




posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 04:51 AM
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Originally posted by Netchicken
Or is it to remove their nest permanatly....

I don't think either the Coalition or the Iraqi government are going to allow Fallujah to be retaken by the insurgents anytime soon.

You don't win a war unless you are willing to eliminate enemy positions. Fallujah isn't the only place where insurgents are being hunted down, it's just the big newsmaker right now, and an important objective in terms of its symbolic value.

There will no doubt be many acts of terrorism in the weeks and months ahead, including attacks made in commemoration of the fall of Fallujah, but the days of insurgents controlling territory and walking freely in the streets are coming to an end.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 08:39 AM
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You strike it right on the nose. Falluja will be only a partial victory (provided US and Iraqi troops don't retire halfway through): while the terrorists will probably lose control of the area (but for how long?), they have already moved somewhere else (Baquba?), leaving behind only a few of their numbers to inflict as many casualties as possible and to give the impression of putting up a real fight (mainly to their main allies, the Western medias). Informing the civilians in advance was surely an act of great humanity, but was also an act of complete military foolishness, since terrorists also read leaflets and watch TV. What's the point in launching an operation to catch an enemy that has been given plenty of time to move away? Sun-Tzu, Clausewitz, Napoleon, Leo the Wise and many others all spoke about surprise as one of the biggest factors in warfare, and they were no foolish.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 01:40 PM
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The rebels are playing it perfectly,

Gurilla (?) warefare must be the best way to fight in a place like Iraq. Hit and run seems to be serving them best, whilst the military lumbers around trying to find someone to shoot. I read in other places that there are only lower tier fighters in Faluja, the "real" terrorists left long ago.

Although there is a "what else can we do" aspect to the military attack, it really does seem set up for the photo shoots as much as the real ones. It does a nice job of polarising the West and the east, yet doesn't really solve any problems.

The only successful outcome from this, as far as I can see, is that the terorists are permantly locked out of Falluja, but if they can sneek out with 10,000 men around the city, and a cordon like that cannot be maintained indefinitly, then they sure as heck can move back in again after the soldiers have moved on to the NEXT city..

Its puzzling trying to work out the motivation for the latest military activities, and the growing realiszation that hell, maybe they DON"T know what they are doing....



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 02:05 PM
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Or is it to remove their nest permanatly....


Bing bing...

Still, I'll take even a bunch of low-tier dead terrorists.... It still dwindles their number, and weakens their resolve...all of which is really the point in this scenario...

The downside is the morons who stayed and aren't with the insurgents will be killed right alongside them...including the children who had no choice, but have idiots for parents.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 02:42 PM
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Rather than trying to make sense of a senseless situation watching embedded journalists providing sanitized cover of not much of interest in a war game in a ghost town, I wonder whether anyone wants to work out the twist that has been applied to these terms:

Can we compare and contrast the following - what is the difference between them?

* a terrorist
* an insurgent
* a guerilla
* a rebel
* a freedom fighter ?

Have we seen a transition from the ridiculous "war on terror" to a "war on insurgency"? What does that mean exactly?



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 02:44 PM
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Gazrok:

Still, I'll take even a bunch of low-tier dead terrorists.... It still dwindles their number, and weakens their resolve...all of which is really the point in this scenario...

The downside is the morons who stayed and aren't with the insurgents will be killed right alongside them...including the children who had no choice, but have idiots for parents.


Get used to the term "have idiots for parents", because your own children and millions of American children will be saying the exact same thing in 10-20 years when they realize what kind of an ungodly mess you have made of the world IN THEIR NAME.

Get used to travel advisories from the US government telling Americans where NOT to visit for fear of violence.

Your children and their children are probably going to suffer for it. You get no solid news from the US media, and your attitude is bordering on total ignorance. You can just kill all the terrorists in Fallujah and they won't be replaced? If there's, say, 600 insurgents in Fallujah and you kill them, then it's a big wine and cheese party and nothing but good times forever?

How about some reality? If there was 600 insurgents in Fallujah when this raid started, there are now 6,000. It's NEIGHBOURS and COUNTRYMEN against an occupying army.


I honestly have trouble believing how people can be so pigheaded and blind. Think things through.


Start thinking about your explanations to your kids now, because God knows they'll want some.


jako

ps. here


As U.S. forces push on with their offensive against the rebel city of Falluja, west of Baghdad, there has been a spike in violence around the country, including attacks in Samarra, Ramadi, Baiji, Baghdad, Baquba and Kerbala.






[edit on 11-11-2004 by Jakomo]
Fixed url Netchicken

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Netchicken]



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by Jakomo
Get used to travel advisories from the US government telling Americans where NOT to visit for fear of violence.

I got used to that about 30 years ago, and regardless of U.S. policies, people just seem to want to kill us. It stopped making sense a long time before that.

However, we are not alone. Every major country has travel advisories in effect for a wide variety of nations. Some places are just plain violent, regardless of who you are.

For example, there are probably not a lot of countries encouraging tourism in the Ivory Coast right now. Even the vaunted French are being lynched and burned alive there -- along with anyone who was unfortunate enough to have been born white.

If you know of a place where only Americans can't safely travel, please share that insight, because I don't know of a single one, and I have good reason to be interested in such information.

To lay all that jive out about America like we're the only ones with enemies is simplistic, one-sided and misleading.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 04:43 PM
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To lay all that jive out about America like we're the only ones with enemies is simplistic, one-sided and misleading.


That was the single most greatest and smartest thing I have ever heard.......well in the last few weeks on these forums anyways.

White is white and if a particular Muslim feels like praising Allah a different way today he may just grab a white dude and slice is neck regadless of his nationality.




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