And, could anyone else benefit? Look who benefits most and you'll probably find the culprit(s).
Wise men, the Romans.

My first thought was to look at the Israelis as having a hand in this. The timing does seem coincidental. But then you also have to look at other events as well.
The roadmap is on the table and the US is still in Iraq.

Basically Al Qaeda has had a hard time of it lately. It needs to show the population of the Middle East that it still has teeth if it is to be taken credibly after being hammered in Afghanistan. It's also still smarting about what it sees as the defeat of Islam in Iraq. If it doesn't act quickly and show the people in the region (those doubters who aren't sure whether they support Al Qaeda or not) it will lose a lot of support. By these bombing campaigns it's creating a political climate which creates confusion and terrorist groups thrive in a confused atmosphere.

Al Qaeda had to go after soft targets in places like Morroco, as to hit the West at this time is a pretty hard job due to the security restrictions we have put in place. They desparately need the propaganda value of a strike at the West though. I think that the decision to undertake this bombing campaign was necessary for them but also very risky. They are calculating that there is still enough resentment in the region against the US and Israel so that the civilian deaths will be looked upon as an unfortunate but necessary side effect of their battle. The problem is that they haven't taken into account human nature. It's relatively easy for a militant to put aside his concerns for human life (as we've witnessed with the suicide bombings) yet the man in the street doesn't have that mind set and that's where they will slip up. If they hit to many of the general population, public opinion will turn against them and they will then have real problems and be fighting to survive. This plays right into the hands of the US.

Of course, this is a ripe one for conspiracists as the end result of these bombings could be hugely beneficial to the West and Israel. I'm not so sure though. If the Israelis or the US were going to use black ops I would have expected them to try for higher profile targets rather than a Belgian consulate, an empty Jewish community centre and an Italian restaurant. It's in the Wests interests for Al Qaeda to kill as many arab civilians as possible. There are many targets where they could have created much more damage and manipulated public opinion much more as a result.

I've also tried to read as much information as I could about these bombings and the ones that were perpetrated in Riyadh. It seems that all of the people who have been arrested by security forces over there have some connection to Islamic fundamentalism so the finger of blame does seem to point at them. Wether or not they are being "controlled" by a force other than Al Qaeda is open to question, but I see this as hits by an organisation that gets to much credit for being "professional". They've simply misjudged arab opinion and aren't half as clever as we think that they are.

Of course I could be wrong. The Israelis are masters of black ops and there may be some indirect control being exerted but at the moment I don't see that.



[Edited on 19-5-2003 by Leveller]

This is certainly the measured and balanced approach I applaud, leveller. Not this hasty swallowing of media pap that all too often sullies ATS.
I wish I shared your confidence about the"roadmap" -Sharon has cancelled his vsit to the US -the "plan" is advancing nowhere: the Palestinians have embraced it: the Zionists build walls -find floating etrrorists and have a litle "suicide bomb".

And one must always look at possible coincidences: it's a Belgian consulate and the Belgian far-right Vlaams Blok has just made sweeping gains.
For a nation with such a long tradition of bloody murder -from its very foundation, we would not look for the obvious.
But I still see Israel having more to gain from this than Arabs do.

Originally posted by Estragon
This is certainly the measured and balanced approach I applaud, leveller. Not this hasty swallowing of media pap that all too often sullies ATS.
I wish I shared your confidence about the"roadmap" -

Well, ever since 911 happened I have harbored my own conspiracy theory. But when I hold it up to the light it has too many holes in it. If I were a better writer I might be able to propose it in a more credible way. That's why I posted the thread about Israel in the Politics forum: I wanted to see how the US man in the street viewed his country's relationship with Israel. But to show you that the above post was only a personal opinion and how it may well be wrong, I will tell you of the other thoughts I had.




When 9/11 first occured there were so many gaps in the story. No intelligence or ignored intelligence from agencies that should have seen this coming from a mile away. I looked at Israeli policy and I looked at American policy. I then looked at the events that have taken place since 9/11 - In most of these, the US has been attempting to stifle resistance to any peace plan between the Israel and Palestine. It might not show like that at first, but when you read between the lines you can see it happening - the removal of elements that threaten Israel in Iraq and Afghanistan have already started and arab governments are also taking steps that (wether they like it or not) aid the peace process.

But why would the US play such a major part? They're basically doing the Israeli's job for them. They're eliminating the threats to peace and this is all to Israel's advantage. Israel can do what it likes whilst the attention is turned to the US and it can strengthen it's hand in the time that it takes to get to the bargaining table. The only way I can see the US getting involved is if it feels directly threatened itself.

The simple fact is that 9/11 threatened it. It dragged the US off it's butt and got the whole process of removing arab fundamentalism started. This obviously benefits Israel and again strengthens it's hand when it comes to the bargaining table. After all, if you're sitting across the table and the people who are trying to destroy you don't have a place there because they've already been destroyed, you're going to be in a stronger postion.

So far everything that has occured with US foriegn policy in the Middle East seems to benefit Israel in the future. And 9/11 was the catalyst that kick started the whole process. Is it then such a massive jump to suggest that the Israelis kickstarted the whole thing by perpetrating 9/11 themselves or at least sewed the seeds for it's occurance? They stand to benefit far more than any other faction involved. Are they the ones responsible for continued terrorist attacks? Are they playing the game of politics by using fear as a weapon and putting the blame squarely on someone else's shoulders?




Although I haven't seen anything that directly supports that theory, I haven't seen anything that discredits it so that I throw it out entirely. That's why I came here in the first place: in my opinion ATS is as good as any news site and there are a lot of smart people here who know a helluva lot more than I do and can enlighten me.


But like I said, this is just a theory. My first post is the opinion that I stand by as I find that more acceptable to my views and instincts. I have no doubts that Al Qaeda exists and that it is a threat (though nowhere near to being the threat that we first anticipated) and I would like to believe that the US administration is nowhere near as gullible as to play puppet for Israel.

Finally, just as I have done before, I want to restate that I'm not anti-Jew. Hell, if the second scenario did turn out to be the case and they are at the bottom of all the manouvreing in the Middle East you would have to give them credit for being very clever and far-sighted. Personally, I would think that they sucked for manipulating us all, but a sneaky bit of me (I'm trying to keep that bit under wraps!!) would have a grudging admiration for them.

Maybe there is no conspiracy over 9/11 and the continuing saga but I can see why people would think that Israel and the US are up to something. Maybe we'll find out the truth in the future, maybe we'll always be kept in the dark or maybe (my gut feeling) this has all been caused by Islamic extremists going for a power base in the Middle East.
That to me is the true beauty of a conspiracy theory.

I find much of what you post eminently plausible, Leveller.
9-11 is already so lost in mystery that -like the moon landings -we'll have people asking if it really hapened, eventually.
From Bush in the school room to fake phone calls from aeroplanes, white vans, Israeli students, pre-hit warnings to a graet deal of evidence suggesting some sort of internal explosion - all has been swept under the carpet.
Of course, we must distingush between sins of commisision and sins of omission: actually doing it and standing aside and not intervening when someone else does it.
I for example will always believe that the latter was the case with Roosevelt and Pearl harbour - of course he didn't launch the planes or manipulate the Imperial Japanese Navy; but he drove Japan into a corner over oil and let the attack take place.
So it may be that certain agencies knew what was afoot and chose not to pursue the issue.
This to me would tend to be the more likely explanation of Israeli influence: to infiltrate and facilitate; but it is actually Arabs who do it.
We don't know; but we keep looking.

And we notice the spin on MM's original link from Complete Nonsense Nightly which suggested Jewish victims whereas, in fact, more Arabs died than Jews, and the biggest blast was at a Spanish restaurant which might at least have suggested some connection with the endless bickering over Spanish Morocco.

One interesting peice of information from these attacks is the reaction of the Jewish community in Morocco. Most of the Jews in these places are arabs.
I was watching a news report where one of these guys was stating that the only reason he didn't want to live in Israel was because of the terrorist threat. But now he and other members of his community are seriously contemplating leaving and setting up home in Israel. They see themselves in as much danger where they are now so why not head home?

If the Palestinians get their state it's going to be slap bang in the middle of Israel and intelligence work is going to be more important than ever. Who better to undertake that work than arabs? They blend in perfectly.

Returning Jewish-arabs could be a very valuable part of the security apparatus for Israel.

Indeed they would, Leveller. They'd not pass for palestinians, I fancy -although one often talks of Arabic as "one" language the spoken language varies enormously from country to country ,and no Moroccan would easily pass as a Palestinian.
But, as Arabs -yes.

And there is ample anecdotal -and sometimes stronger -evidence to suggest that there are no few Israeli moles already in Palestine.

Main Entry: cre·du·li·ty
Pronunciation: kri-'dü-l&-tE, -'dyü-
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
: readiness or willingness to believe especially on slight or uncertain evidence

Main Entry: cred·i·bil·i·ty
Pronunciation: "kre-d&-'bi-l&-tE
Function: noun
Date: 1594
1 : the quality or power of inspiring belief n account lacking in credibility>
2 : capacity for belief trains her reader's credibility —Times Literary Supplement>

Credulity is often a response when those oposed to a positon lack credibility.

Come now Estragon one look at the Eastern Hemishphere and one reslizes that it is the fantacy/Wet dream of the KKK in the United
States. Every race creed and culture separated
and assigend a country. And for the sake of
argument it is not even by race but by culture.

We in the US are what?

What we are Estragon as a whole is a mix of every culture that exist in the world, so while you pretend that credulity is an issue. Keep in mind that because of this countires cultural diversification your credibility is what makes credulity an issue.

Main Entry: con·spir·a·cy
Pronunciation: k&n-'spir-&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
Etymology: Middle English conspiracie, from Latin conspirare
Date: 14th century
1 : the act of conspiring together
2 a : an agreement among conspirators b : a group of conspirators
synonym see PLOT

Pronunciation Key

© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy

My impression is this Estragon the credulity you offer as apparent is a perspective upon which you lack the capacity to look at what is known as the EU. Simply stated you responses are cleary the result of credulity
suportive of forces which upose the idea that the US has any credibility.

Furthermore I agree with this idea that a conspiracy exsit and would submit that they programed you well.


[Edited on 20-5-2003 by Toltec]

Well, yes..and..no, Toltec.

Originally posted by Estragon

We are assured that they could hi-jack 4 jets and demolish the WTC, and now they're reduced to truck-bombs in Muslim countries? But they are still a global threat? More dangerous than ever?

You are frightning me Estragon. Because You wrote what I was thinking. But I like to think, that now we know who they are, what they do and what they want, they're not able to hijack any jetliners anymore.

But the parallelism with the Reichstag burning is pretty clearness. Just hope that I completely wrong. The future will tell us what.

is simply this.


Before September 11th, 2001 Al-Quida (if that is who is to blame), had not done a hijacking before.

There is your reasoning. Al-Quida didn't do the WTC in, but they did do everything else. Kenya, twice, Yemen several times, Sudan always, Somalia Always, Saudi Arabia, several times, and the strikes go on and on. Of course I can only reasonably list so many without over stating my point. My point being, that Al-Quida has always been prone to high scale bombings, and not hijackings. So there is one reason.

Yet if Estragon wants some balance, then let us propose this.

Maybe Al-Quida was to blame for all of the above stated attacks, but that the reason it hasn't been repeating the September 11th attacks is because it is no picnic.

You really think that Al-Quida can do this like clockwork???

That is not reasonable. Leveller said it himself. They can't just kill as many people as possible and expect people to accept that. The point I made, or tried to make in my first couple of posts about this subject stated that Al-Quida is holding this nation and the World hostage. They are using one big form of blackmail and political hijacking. Political hijacking can be simply stated as this, when the Israeli's agree to sit at a table with the Palestinians, the terrorist hijackers of the political system strike. Once again, "Who benefits???", is the question that must always be asked. So let that be the next proposal. What is the reaoning behind these attacks in Morocco???

Not only that, but in Chechnya as well. Cause lets face it, those attacks in Morocco have ties to the attacks in Chechnya.