16,000-year-old Pa. rock shelter dwelling still divides archaeologists after 40 years

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by InSolace

 

One correction, a certain percentage of modern man has a small amount of Neanderthal DNA, so technically we are their descendants, in part.....

I'm not a proponent of that idea, even though I have read about it. I'll have to read up once more to supply you with any counter argument on that point.

My opinion, for the time being, is that we share genes with neanderthals just as we share genes with a pig, a horse, etc. I am a proponent of the idea that we were seperate species and could at best birth hybrids.

If you could supply me with some evidence which could settle my doubts I'd be intrigued and thankful to read it.

I thought this was a discussion of a site in Pennsylvania? that went south quick.

reply to post by scooterstrats


Sorry, I'll continue it in U2U's.

Originally posted by Shiloh7
reply to post by Hanslune

 

One only has to google Sumeria and after selecting various entries, there is a considerable amount on the web which is highly informative, easy to use and search through. I did look at your reference, but it was more a complicated academic referencing system one had to manoeuvre through to reach the translations themselves.

Should you ever care to actually read what was written in Sumer/Akkadia.Babylonia/Assyria, you get free access to scholarly translations of all the major elements at this page of the Sacred Texts website.

Included at that link is further information about these myths - written by scholars of the subject - in the form of books and essays. The site includes workls/translations from Samuel Kramer.

If you don't know who Kramer was, then you're not really interested.

Anyway, there are no indices to go through, no searching to perform like there is at the two main scholarly sites (one of which Hans linked to.)

No, just go there, read the links, click, and read the myths - translated directly from cuneiform.

Harte

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

I go by what one of the local Indian elders told me.

Always a good plan. I don't follow their belief system...but I respect it.

Originally posted by MysterX
16,000 years is nothing.

There is substantial evidence discovered by reputable archaeologists back in the 60's and 70's of North American settlement by Humans going back as far as 400,000 years!

Youtube is not a source. There is zero proof of this. And the findings in other parts of the world are not proven to be HSS, modern man.

Originally posted by InSolace

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by InSolace

 

One correction, a certain percentage of modern man has a small amount of Neanderthal DNA, so technically we are their descendants, in part.....

I'm not a proponent of that idea, even though I have read about it. I'll have to read up once more to supply you with any counter argument on that point.

My opinion, for the time being, is that we share genes with neanderthals just as we share genes with a pig, a horse, etc. I am a proponent of the idea that we were seperate species and could at best birth hybrids.

If you could supply me with some evidence which could settle my doubts I'd be intrigued and thankful to read it.

edit on 14-8-2013 by InSolace because: (no reason given)

The problem with your theory is that if it were true all HSS should have Neanderthal DNA. This is not the case. There is a direct correlation between groups in contact with Neanderthals and how much of their DNA their descendants have.

reply to post by Harte


Professor George Barton of Bryn Mawr College translated tablets excavated from Nippur and published his translation in 1918. Professor Kramer wrote about the oldest of Barton's work 40 years later. He owned the tablets are largely unintelligible but he may be right when he claims that History began at Sumer. However, Prehistory and prehistorical science in particular, began at Kharsag in Eden - and for our knowledge of this, we can thank Enoch and the scribes of Sumer. Like it or not, the dates for the Garden of Eden are still unconfirmed so Sitchin is well within his right to speculate and put his theories forward. You would have noted, had you read my threads properly I mentioned his ideas are contraversial but interesting nevertheless.

This thread is about a 16,000 year old shelter dwelling. Its not unique or the oldest we currently know of. The Sierra de Atapuerca sites have the oldest fossil remains in Europe - 800,000BP (from the Gran Dolina site)

The oldest human remains were found at the Galeria site and date between 200,000BP and 400,000BP. 32 bodies have been discovered from the sites occupied by various human groups over many centuries - Bronze Age, Roman and Visigoth. Some of these sites include art, pottery etc and sanctuaries for funerals etc. The people from this are moved in the Middle Ages and created permanent settlements in the plains below.

Whatever theological or the world is only some 6000 years old, or whatever your views are, different species of mankind has walked this planet considerably longer than we have credited his existence for.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by Shiloh7
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Ah, Hanslune

I thought I would do a little research on your website you place so much emphasis on. Ha Ha, its Heiser

Sorry dude I made no such link. False charge - care to link to this Hesier link you said I provided? lol

Oh and do apologise for mispelling his name

So Shiloh7

You have failed to provide a link to back up your false charge - done to disrupt the debate you were losing - did you really think such a transparent attempt would work? lol

I'll give you one more chance to provide proof that I linked to Heiser in this thread or you're be deemed a 'maker up of lies - just like Sitchin, lol.

Originally posted by Shiloh7
reply to post by Harte

 

Professor George Barton of Bryn Mawr College translated tablets excavated from Nippur and published his translation in 1918. Professor Kramer wrote about the oldest of Barton's work 40 years later. He owned the tablets are largely unintelligible but he may be right when he claims that History began at Sumer. However, Prehistory and prehistorical science in particular, began at Kharsag in Eden - and for our knowledge of this, we can thank Enoch and the scribes of Sumer. Like it or not, the dates for the Garden of Eden are still unconfirmed so Sitchin is well within his right to speculate and put his theories forward. You would have noted, had you read my threads properly I mentioned his ideas are contraversial but interesting nevertheless.

You mean unsupported and made up don't you? Are you saying you think the 'Garden of Eden' was a real place and that mankind is descended from Adam and Eve?

This thread is about a 16,000 year old shelter dwelling. Its not unique or the oldest we currently know of. The Sierra de Atapuerca sites have the oldest fossil remains in Europe - 800,000BP (from the Gran Dolina site).......The oldest human remains were found at the Galeria site and date between 200,000BP and 400,000BP

That use to be the case but the current oldest is I believe the fossil hominin tooth from the site of Barranco León, Spain, dated between 1.02 and 1.73 Ma

Oldest human fossil in Europe

Click here for more information.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by Shiloh7
reply to post by Harte

 

Professor George Barton of Bryn Mawr College translated tablets excavated from Nippur and published his translation in 1918. Professor Kramer wrote about the oldest of Barton's work 40 years later. He owned the tablets are largely unintelligible but he may be right when he claims that History began at Sumer. However, Prehistory and prehistorical science in particular, began at Kharsag in Eden - and for our knowledge of this, we can thank Enoch and the scribes of Sumer. Like it or not, the dates for the Garden of Eden are still unconfirmed so Sitchin is well within his right to speculate and put his theories forward. You would have noted, had you read my threads properly I mentioned his ideas are contraversial but interesting nevertheless.

You mean unsupported and made up don't you? Are you saying you think the 'Garden of Eden' was a real place and that mankind is descended from Adam and Eve?

That's what he's saying. And for "proof," he's using a book from 300BC.

He's also claiming that Enoch predated the rise of cuneiform, and that an Old Babylonian period cuneiform text is "prehistoric."

Harte

reply to post by Harte


It depends on your view of when in time the GOE existed. Also if you credit the Hebrew God with its creation. The tablets transcribed appear to beg to differ. Were it to have been some 400,000 years ago then its open to debate. We know that there were other 'people' about, we don't know at what stage of evolution or species they were.

Enoch is only a couple of generations down from Adam and so he existed before the flood, cureiform developed after the flood and originally started by noting the development of flowers and grains etc which obviously grew after that particular catastrophe

I don't take a biblical position on this because I believe modern HSS is considerably older than is currently credited to be. I am interested in what the bible says along with a lot of other sources. I certainly think that earlier civilisations existed and possibly we will slowly unearth their remains, so 16,000 years is nothing to clarify exactly when modern man started walking this planet.

Originally posted by Shiloh7
It depends on your view of when in time the GOE existed. Also if you credit the Hebrew God with its creation. The tablets transcribed appear to beg to differ. Were it to have been some 400,000 years ago then its open to debate. We know that there were other 'people' about, we don't know at what stage of evolution or species they were.

Enoch is only a couple of generations down from Adam and so he existed before the flood, cureiform developed after the flood and originally started by noting the development of flowers and grains etc which obviously grew after that particular catastrophe

"The Flood" is a myth. There exists no evidence for it, and plenty against it. There was no "Adam" so Enoch certainly didn't come a couple of generations later.
The Book of Enoch was penned in or around 300 BC, with part of it being written in the Common Era.

As I said, you can't cite a written document as evidence of anything prehistoric. That's the definition of historic, which makes your statement look pretty dumb.

Originally posted by Shiloh7
I don't take a biblical position on this

That's good to know.

Originally posted by Shiloh7
because I believe modern HSS is considerably older than is currently credited to be. I am interested in what the bible says along with a lot of other sources. I certainly think that earlier civilisations existed and possibly we will slowly unearth their remains, so 16,000 years is nothing to clarify exactly when modern man started walking this planet.

You, like anyone, are free to speculate as much as you want. However, I prefer to stick with what evidence we have. I'm very open to changing my opinion, if new evidence is discovered and confirmed.

Harte