I am a patriot and I love the United States of America

reply to post by mekhanics


The OP never condoned wrongful actions of government. That is an assumption based on who you imagine he is.

and since you like quotes...

“I am an American; free born and free bred, where I acknowledge no man as my superior, except for his own worth, or as my inferior, except for his own demerit.”
― Theodore Roosevelt

“Here is your country. Cherish these natural wonders, cherish the natural resources, cherish the history and romance as a sacred heritage, for your children and your children's children. Do not let selfish men or greedy interests skin your country of its beauty, its riches or its romance.”
― Theodore Roosevelt

“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it.”
― Mark Twain

“A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril. ”
― Winston Churchill

“These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in the crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it NOW, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.”
― Thomas Paine, The American Crisis

“Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else.”
― Theodore Roosevelt

“My old man says when it's time to be counted, the important thing is to be man enough to stand up.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Between Planets

We’re being sold a brand new idea of patriotism. It never occurred to me that patriotism had to be advertised. Patriotism is something you deeply felt. You didn’t have to wear it on your lapel or show it in your window or on a bumper sticker. That kind of patriotism does not appeal to me at all.

SAM SHEPARD, The Village Voice, Nov. 12, 2004

Patriotism is a thing of the heart. A man is a patriot if his heart beats true to his country.

CHARLES E. JEFFERSON, "Ethical Aspects of Conscription and the War"

and the one I thought to in response to your quote....

Patriotism is one of the unalterable facts of man's nature. It is a virtue if you like it, and a vice if you don't like it.

MAX EASTMAN, "What Shall We Do With Patriotism?"

also Nationalism has NOTHING to do with patriotism. Thats the problem people like you have. You lump up patriots with nationalists. Dont feel bad though...even Albert Einstein made this mistake often....emotions can be a tricky thing when the mind is not in check.

EDIT TO ADD:
Patriotism is the lOVE of your country and people as well as the acceptance and RESPECT of other such love by other nations towards their own people and home. Like the unity shared at Olympic games when we all meet under our flags and compete not against each other but FOR our country.

Nationalism is the BELIEF that your nation is SUPERIOR to others and finding offensive the pride of other peoples for their home and country....

there is a HUGE difference. Any intellectual worth his salt considers this before he scoffs at "the sheep in rank and file".....problem is, sometimes they dont....and proceed to assume much.

being offended by someones patriotism is actually a trait of nationalism. Betcha didnt know that smarty pants.....

ever hear of "world citizenship" or what ever extreme leftist ideal or designation people use interchangeably....yeah, that is the new SUPERIOR nation....."it is much MORE blah, noble, blah, worldly, blah, progressive, blah.. than your puny American patriotism....or where ever the hell you are proud of......"

after a loss of national identity and what is left?....yup, a grey "global" identity....hhhmmmm I wonder if the globalists can use that to their advantage....????

reply to post by semperfortis


Those are GOOD feelings, and right, and just. This nation, as it was founded, has been a place of hope, freedom, opportunity, and great strength and moral character. A lot is changed now, but there are still people that feel as you do, and want to preserve what we have known. The people complaining about how you feel, how I and others feel as well, are the ones causing things to go bad, the ones allowing other forces to rip apart a great nation.

I still remember growing up in a time when loving the country was right, and expected. I remember celebrating the Bicentennial, and how proud people were that year. I was young then, but I remember. You don't stand alone.

Originally posted by semperfortis
I am a patriot. I love my country with all of my heart and all of my soul. I love my country so much, I have devoted my life to serving her; well at least the last 33 years.

I have given my sweat, blood and tears for her and sacrificed financially, emotionally and physically.

I would do it all again.

I believe that the stronger my country is the more others will respect her. I do not believe in capitulation, negotiation or apologetics when it comes to the foreign affairs of my country. I believe we are a country founded on the principles and morality of God and the farther we stray from that, the worse off my country becomes.

I believe in the Pledge of Allegiance, In God We Trust and the principles of a Representative Republic.

Now some on here would say that is wrong. Some would have you believe that I am a bad person because of the way I feel. I care little about their opinions as my beliefs are based on a life traveling the world, a life fighting for justice and a life dedicated to these United States. Most if not all that will decry my life, my beliefs and my opinions have not done one tenth of what I have; they have not “walked the walk” yet are free to “talk the talk” because of my service and the service of those just like me.

I grew up poor. More poor than most of you can comprehend or even understand. Yet I grew with guidance from my Grandmother that was sure and strong. With discipline that was swift and fair. Being taught that if I believed and worked hard enough, I could be anything I desired. I desired to serve my country, and I have.

Now some of you from other countries may feel the same. Some may have even done, felt and experienced the things I have. I applaud you one and all as brothers. There can be more than one strong brother in any family just as there can be more than one strong nation in this world. Respect is all that is required; and it is required as is strength.

For those of you that are either upset by this post, aggravated or angered, I suppose my message is this. There is no way I can ever make you understand how ridiculous you sound when you spout off against my country and have never lived a life to be proud of. You have never given enough of yourself to make your opinion matter. I am sorry if this offends, but it is the truth. You must be prepared to die for something you believe in before your words have any meaning, and not just prepared to die in your basement in front of your keyboard.

Oh your opinion matters. It matters to those that are dirty, hot and sweaty; more tired than you have ever known and yet pick up their rifles and go back to work. It matters to those that are lying on the side of some trail, bleeding and wondering if the medics will arrive in time. Matters to the one rappelling from the chopper into live fire thinking of his wife and children back home. OH you matter all right; it is because of you they are there. The “you” that hates the government. The “you” that believes the government is evil even though you voted that government in; if you even voted. The same “you” that believes our very government was behind September 11, Pearl Harbor and every other terrorist act in recent history. That there were no planes and a missile hit the pentagon and every other ridiculous conspiracy your mind can imagine behind your safe little keyboard. It matters to me every day I strap my gun on and go to work, knowing the reason I must wear a gun is the same reason I may kiss my wife for the last time this very morning.

So yes, I am a PATRIOT. I have earned the right to be a Patriot.

The only question is this….

Have you earned the right to criticize me?

Meat heads like you are exactly what is wrong with your country.

reply to post by biggm


calling someone a "meat head", a fellow citizen mind you, fellow man, what ever, because he LOVES something is the real problem.

Judgements come from a sense of superiority. A sense of superiority is inherit of a sense of inferiority of others "below" you.

If he is a "meat head" to you, then you must think yourself better than him....superior. Less of a meat head.

That my friend is the ride liberalism is taking......the last stop sucks....there is always someone who is less of a "meat head" then you.

The same way the Tea party is designed by the last people on earth who should be creating it (usurping it) modern day liberals are being fed this sentiment you just expressed by the last people on earth they should be listening to (being usurped by). The leaders of modern day progressive movements may see you as a "meat head"......or just meat.

THAT is the problem.

united we stand....everything else sucks...

There are many reasons I said that, but lets just take one, fighting for truth and justice as an American soldier, if you believe the current wars led by the US are honest and just then there is no hope for the world.

reply to post by biggm


every person has their own reason for doing anything in life.

here is an example.

I may go to work everyday because I want money. My boss may think I go to work because I want to improve the business. Maybe my co worker wants to better the business and is not really interested in the money because he loves his job...but I dont. I just want money.

My boss then cant say that ALL his employees go to work to better the business or that they go just for the money.

You cant possibly make a generalization and so a judgement based of a little paragraph of text. That behavior is extremist in nature. Extremes are easy to instill in people and then control.

Be smarter man. Identify with who you are, dont let who you are be what you identify with. SO you dont like right from center ideologies. Or you do what ever....why pick ANY side that puts you at odds with a fellow man, citizen or what ever...especially for his or her LOVE of something?

Soldiers, patriotic people, everyone you cant talk to naturally are not your enemy. They are actually the people you can most learn from. They are the people you can learn how to deconstruct the double sided puzzle to truth we live in.

You cant possibly see it all and know all the angles. Thats why you need to cross over as much as possible and thats why it is best to be in the center of tings...not in an extreme.

Extremes keep you from ever seeing the other side clearly.....that division is simply delicious to those that would use you......

EDIT:
if the buck stops anywhere for you when dealing with people...then you just lost hope...they are not "hopeless".

The wars aside, those are talking points like abortion or gay marriage. "This or that....nothing else are your options for thought and dialogue..."....no lets not do that.

Do you really feel like less of a "meat head" then him...is he really MORE of a "meat head" than you?

Of coarse not. That sense of division, that knee jerk reaction to a familiar process is the real problem. It is entirely programmable.

There is nothing that cant be worked out and there is a HUGE problem when no one in a room disagrees. This man and many people like him, love something...HOW is that a bad thing?

remember wars and blah blah blah aside....here and now and speaking of what is REALLY relevant to you and I, how is his love a problem to you? It isnt. In fact if more people believed in something worth fighting for then we would not be surrounded by defeatist attitudes that weigh and sink us into the mire of disillusionment and impotence.

More good would be done, not less.....less people would cop out and try to get others to die with them, spiritually, morally and nationally.

Remember death of all kinds is pathetic in that it needs company. Those that died inside already need someone there to die with them. Misery needs company and all that. Unhappy people need to make others unhappy.

Patriotism is not bad, but when you are already disillusioned with your country and have just given up you dont want others to be happy and patriotic about it. It stirs uncomfortable feelings in you.

thing is that is like being angry at people smiling and laughing because you just want to cry....it is madness!

Snap out of it! Get back in the fight!

Unity with other like minded people is a start. Patriotism is that. Dont scorn it.....join it. Join "the people" if your issue is with their task masters. Patriotism is the sense of family that any peoples have as a nation or culture.

I cant express how important that is to resisting the enemy to us all.

Your not to sharp yourself are you, I said there are many reasons, I did not base it on one small paragraph but on the whole post, you also try to paint me as some form of extremist which in turn says you are judging and categorizing me in the same way.

reply to post by biggm


yet even with many reasons, you still judged the man based on his convictions (love of country) and the most important ones or most telling reason you did mention.

That is extremist behavior.

Extremist ideals can exist in all ideologies. Even supposedly benign and "passive" ones.

Like if you were to say "NEVER lift a finger in violence against anyone, ever"...that would be an extreme.

Or "Always destroy evil in the name of good"...yet another more obvious one....

the point is, any extreme is detrimental to real progress....balance.

Judging others for their LOVE, of all things, is an extreme.

Like I said before, being so offended by someones patriotism as to insult them is actually a trait of nationalism. In this sense the nationalist ideal is an international identity, or school of thought that has its own form of citizenship....

"world citizenship"..."this new SUPERIOR nation with no borders but higher "more noble" ideals....not full of "meat heads".....is better than any puny American or where ever patriotism. That is antiquated and inferior compared to the new glorious international persona we can all adopt at the bargain price of our cultural identity....."

Tell me, do you have any special sense of appreciation towards your own country or people?

I did not judge him on his love of anything, you are not looking deep enough, but alas I have to go to work now, I hope we resume later.

Originally posted by semperfortis
I am a patriot. I love my country with all of my heart and all of my soul. I love my country so much, I have devoted my life to serving her; well at least the last 33 years.

I have given my sweat, blood and tears for her and sacrificed financially, emotionally and physically.

I would do it all again.

Why do you love your country - what aspects of it do you love?
Human beings are beings of bias....

I could say I love my country too, but I only love aspects of it.
Some aspects of it sicken me, such as the lifestyle I am able to live because
of the way my country treats/exploits other nations. How can I be proud of this?

What I do love/respect and it brings me to tears sometimes is the action of the people
who fought for freedom and rights of their fellow people and others to stop injustice
and tyranny in its tracks. That is beautiful.

Can you give some examples of actions your nation has taken for the freedom of other nations?
Also some examples where you nation has squashed others because of its own selfish self interests.

I believe that the stronger my country is the more others will respect her. I do not believe in capitulation, negotiation or apologetics when it comes to the foreign affairs of my country. I believe we are a country founded on the principles and morality of God and the farther we stray from that, the worse off my country becomes.

Again you are being vague - what do you mean by strength?

Do you mean strong militarily or strong in a moral way ?

Have you earned the right to criticize me?

Your action of posting on this forum has given people the right to criticize you.

The ethos of this forum is "deny ignorance." To not have the right to .criticize you
would be counter to what this forum is about?

Limbo

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by tadaman

The OP never condoned wrongful actions of government.

That's according to you.

That is an assumption based on who you imagine he is.

Incorrect.

Originally posted by semperfortis
The only question is this….
Have you earned the right to criticize me?

Yes. By being born a United States Citizen, I have the right to express my opinion guaranteed under the 1st Amendment, which you seem to care about.

I do thank you for serving our country, but it doesn't make you better than anyone else just for serving. You may have become more highly skilled physically, mentally, emotionally, or in other ways.

But that doesn't make you more important than the person who didn't serve.

If you think it does, I think you've missed the point of serving. At least serving for the United States.

I've met some people at the VFW who think like this and, when they say they were in a war, I just want to ask them: who's side were you on?

You seem to think that there is some unspoken secondary test to citizenship. I'm telling you, that way lies oppression, which is exactly what you supposedly have served to fight against.

No, the United States isn't perfect. And it's always a work-in-progress.

The real question is: Are you tough enough, are you enough of a Patriot, to tolerate it?

Because part of being a Patriot is also believing in the diversity of our country. Don't let anybody fool you about that.

So I have to ask - if you have no respect for the people who haven't served, why are you serving?

By the way, I'm a US Navy Veteran, so is my brother. My Father was in the Navy during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I had 3 uncles who were in the military - two fought in the Korean War. I had a great-uncle who was a SeaBee in the Pacific during World War II. And my Great, Great Grandfather fought with the 15th Infantry in the Union Army during the Civil War.

Originally posted by cleverhans
Just curious, do you consider Paul Revere an American patriot or a British traitor?

There the same ones that would have donned a redcoat due to "supporting the troops" and loyalty


If you look at the supports on this thread ie redneck you can see they havebbeen indocrinated with false american centric history and have littke knowlage of the outside world

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by cleverhans
Just curious, do you consider Paul Revere an American patriot or a British traitor?

There the same ones that would have donned a redcoat due to "supporting the troops" and loyalty

If you look at the supports on this thread ie redneck you can see they havebbeen indocrinated with false american centric history and have littke knowlage of the outside world

Or in many cases no knowledge of the outside world at all. Lets be honest, George w did not even know where France was. But many felt patriotic to the battle cry issued by an uneducated buffoon.

EDIT,, I will add to this, you say you are patriotic to your government and your military service, very commendable, however many thousands of your fellow servicemen lost their lives in France during the second world war, there must have been acts of bravery I could not even comprehend, but the president/government you felt patriotic towards could not even be bothered to educate them/himself as to where these brave men died.

Originally posted by TheRedneck

No offense, but it looks like wishful thinking from where I sit. I'm sure I'm not the only one with that impression.

No its fact. 1000 years from now the USA will only exist as a page in a history book next to the British Empire.No it probablt wont collaspe in our life time (barring a collapse of the doller) but 100+ years from now? Who knows. You could be subjects of the Canada Empire or a minor allies of the Great fiji republic

Originally posted by TheRedneck
I cannot argue with that. But it seems to me the proper thing to do would be to restore what has broken rather than just scrap the whole thing... unless you scrap your car when you get a flat tire.

Agree but being loyal and subservant to the goverment wont change that. You need to take out the trash IE the politicians, Top Militray leaders, Bankers and CIA/NSA ect. Its gone beyond voteing now as these bad elements are entrenched.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Britain abolished slaves in British territories in 1834.

The USA prohibited importation of slaves in 1807.

Now your just twisting things now to suite your America is better than evryone else narrative.

No Britain abolished Slavery before the USA. FACT. Just beacuse the USA took the frist step doesnt mean they won the race otherwise with that logic Russia won the space race

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Full voting rights for all women on par with men was not instituted in Britain until 1928.

I sort of give you that.

But as the UK started the process before the USA it cant be said that the UK was led by the USA and the UK should be thankfull as the womens rights movemnt was independant.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Eli Whitney
Alexander Graham Bell
Henry Ford
Nikola Tesla
George Westinghouse
Thomas Edison
Benjamin Franklin

But the bulk of the inventions that came out of the Industrial Revolution are... American.

Reflecting telescope: Isaac Newton, 1668
Seed drill: Jethro Tull, 1701
Marine chronometer: John Harrison, 1761
Spinning frame: Richard Arkwright, 1768
Toothbrush: William Addis, c. 1770
Soda water: Joseph Priestley, 1772
Hydraulic press: Joseph Bramah, 1795
Steam engine: Richard Trevithick, 1801
Glider: George Cayley, 1804
Tension-spoked wheel: George Cayley, 1808
Tin can: Peter Durand, 1810
Modern fire extinguisher: George William Manby, 1818
Electric motor: Michael Faraday, 1821
Waterproof material: Charles Macintosh, 1823
Cement: Joseph Aspdin, 1824
Passenger railway: George Stephenson, 1825
Lawnmower: Edwin Beard Budding, 1827
Photography: William Henry Fox Talbot, 1835
Electric telegraph: Charles Wheatstone & William Cooke, 1837
Chocolate bar: JS Fry & Sons, 1847
Hypodermic syringe: Alexander Wood, 1853
Synthetic dye: William Perkin, 1856
Bessemer process: Henry Bessemer, 1856
Linoleum: Frederick Walton, 1860
Sewage system: Joseph Bazalgette, 1865
Modern Torpedo: Robert Whitehead, 1866
Telephone: Alexander Graham Bell, 1876
Light Bulb: Joseph Swan, 1880
Steam turbine: Charles Parsons, 1884
Safety bicycle: John Kemp Stanley, 1885
Pneumatic tyre: John Boyd Dunlop, 1887
Thermos flask: Sir James Dewar, 1892
Electric vacuum cleaner: Hubert Cecil Booth, 1901
(stopped at 1900)
Fact is you could most likley come up with another list and then I do the same and neither of us will win.
Fact is both countrys contributed pretty much equally. But your original statement that the Industrial revolution started or its "home" was in the USA is factualy wrong.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
(I believe, if memory serves)

Its doesnt.

Parliment wons the civil war hands down. Charles II was invited back to the England under strict terms. The main argument after that was how much money to give to the monarch and how much power the aristocray had in the parleiment (IE how many MP they had). All things complety seperate form the USA and

Originally posted by TheRedneck
What makes the soldiers from days of old venerable and the ones from today so heinous?

Becauce since Vietnam they have been used as tools of opression and enforceing unwanted foreign policys onto countrys that dont want it. They are bombing goat herders and chaseing Muslims through the arbian penisular and drone strikeing weddings for very dubius reasons.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Eli Whitney
Alexander Graham Bell
Henry Ford
Nikola Tesla
George Westinghouse
Thomas Edison
Benjamin Franklin

But the bulk of the inventions that came out of the Industrial Revolution are... American.


I just love incredibly uneducated posts, I seriously can't stop laughing at this one.

Mr Redneck, go and Google Isambard kingdom brunel, check out what he did and where he was born, then come back for a proper chat about the industrial revolution.

Seriously I am finding it hard to type as I still can't stop laughing.

reply to post by biggm


I know right!




I nearly destroyed my keyboard last night by snorting my drink over it!

Be proud of you country but dont rewrite history or piss all over the history of another country

Originally posted by crazyewok
reply to post by biggm

 

I know right!

I nearly destroyed my keyboard last night by snorting my drink over it!

Be proud of you country but dont rewrite history or piss all over the history of another country

edit on 14-8-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

I showed it to my lady as well, she is still giggling away,

Originally posted by biggm



I showed it to my lady as well, she is still giggling away,

The real gem is the bit were he clams the USA abolished slavery first


I mean when did 1833 come after 1863 unless Abraham Lincon had time traverling super hero powers (note to self sell idea to hollywood)


I also dont remember the UK or other countrys going into civil war over it either

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by biggm



I showed it to my lady as well, she is still giggling away,

The real gem is the bit were he clams the USA abolished slavery first

I mean when did 1833 come after 1863 unless Abraham Lincon had time traverling super hero powers (note to self sell idea to hollywood)

I also dont remember the UK or other countrys going into civil war over it either

That one did tickle as well, but the crowning turd for me is that this type of post fully explains the mind set of The Redneck and the OP of this thread, did you see where I mentioned George W and his lack of knowledge about France? how on earth can you swear allegiance to a man who knows nothing about the military history of the country he is telling to fight and die for? I will never knock the brave service men and women from all nations who put themselves into conflict but to say the wars America has been in are true, honest and just is an insult to anyone with half a brain.