I am a patriot and I love the United States of America

(continued)

But if you want to talk to me about the situations with government abuses of power, police abuses of power, or illegal covert activities, you will likely find agreement. These are not aspects of my country; they are aspects of what my government has become. I may not serve on the front lines in a far-off country, but I do fight... I speak the truth to those who have not heard it, I vote for those who I believe have some chance to reverse the direction we are moving in (when that is possible), I distribute petitions, and I stand my own ground in the face of adversity from authority. Sitting here I can remember 4 separate times when I stood up, when I should have been taken down and could have been taken down, and stated that I would not comply with improper conduct by those who represented authority. If I tried, I'm sure I can think of many other times. One day, I will probably be taken down... if and when that day comes, I will hopefully face the fight with the same bravery my ancestors faced their fights with.

In the meantime, I will continue to listen to those who prefer to advance their opinions from behind their monitors, watch those who think that antagonizing someone doing their job is somehow helpful, hang my head at those who think that they somehow appear superior by berating those who fought so they could be attacked this way, and hear of those who want to propose wild legalistic theories based on nothing more substantial than the (mis)firing of a neural pathway. I will see the problems we face today devolve into worse and worse atrocities, until that day when the real heroes again stand up and say "No more!" Not from behind a computer keyboard, but in the streets and the open areas of this once great country. I will see the massacres that result, the lives lost, the lives destroyed, the lives wasted because instead of fighting to correct the problems we face, people prefer to sit idle and type words on a screen, pretending to be superior to those who have actually stood up in the face of oppression.

And when it is all over, I will begin to rebuild what they have destroyed, along with many more like me.

Directly to the OP: there is something I try to do, perhaps because a part of me feels inferior for not having served in the military. It seems corny at times, almost to the point of being ridiculous, and this to the extent it almost pains me to do it sometimes. It seems so impotent and empty. But I still do it and I want to do it here, not only for you, but for every soldier or vet who reads this post.

I want to simply say

Thank you for your service



My country, may she ever be right, but right or wrong, my country


TheRedneck

reply to post by Atzil321

Patriotism can .....also be expressed through a love of nature - the wildlife and landscapes unique to your part of the world for example. Think about people from our history who you admire greatly, that is a form of patriotism.

You don't have to be a goose stepping automaton to be patriotic, something american conservatives seem to have forgotten..

I hadn't planned on posting here, but...what the heck.
You mention there are different kinds of patriotism....and indeed you are correct.

There are also different kinds of conservatives..and we all don't fit that goose-stepping mold.
en.wikipedia.org...
In fact, I don't think 30+ years of service to country and all that the OP states qualifies as goose-stepping :/

I can tell you I don't goose-step but consider myself a conservative...in some respects.
I don't like government breathing down my neck and I abhor the invasion of lobbyists and corporations into the political arena. I don't believe everything my government tells me but applaud the right of those who wish to disagree with me.

And I consider myself a patriot......and believe in the Constitution.
I love my country, but I fear my government.

You are a beta male, you are a pawn. You have been brainwashed.

You are willing to die so that rich men can live, so that they can drive around in their expensive cars, so that they can eat caviar; so that they can have sex with the most beautiful women.

Meanwhile, you get none of these things.

And apparently, you see nothing wrong with it.

reply to post by IshmaelKipling

I have to ask...

Is there something wrong with driving expensive cars?

Is there something evil about eating caviar?

Is there anything immoral about having relationships with attractive women?

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Nope, but it is when you use another human in an unnecessary war to get them.

reply to post by TheRedneck


No nothing wrong with those.


But its wrong to ask someone else to die or suffer so you can have those things while they get sweet F all, injury or death.

reply to post by luciddream
reply to post by crazyewok

OK, now I'm really confused. How exactly does serving in the military make other people able to have those luxuries?

I'll answer this one: it doesn't. It makes it possible, but it doesn't make it happen. The OP did not fight for one person to own a nice car or date an attractive woman. He fought for the right of everyone, including me and you to have these things. If some of us are not able to acquire them, that is not the fault of a veteran... it is our own fault.

I find it disingenuous for someone to complain about those who fought for everyone's freedom because they were not able to attain as much as another given the same freedoms. I find it equally disingenuous and quite disturbing to base one's entire self-worth on the material things one has acquired instead on the abilities they possess.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Nobody is fighting for everyone freedom in 2013.

Or are you under the threat the terrorist are coming to get you? and your freedom? maybe Russians are still coming?


The war now is useless, so are the military in foreign nations. There is nothing to do with freedom, its all about profit.

reply to post by TheRedneck


The problem is for many of US here in the UK and in the USA our forces are in our opinion not fighting for our freedoms or protections.

To us since Korea our forces are being used as basicaly mercenarys in foreign wars. Take the two most resent? Iraq and Afghanitsan? To us we cant see how they are for our benfit expect to meddle in a foreign countrys affrairs to try a fight a "idea" that cant be beaten useing coventional warfare only made worse. The only people benifiting from there wars are the defence contractors, Oil compnays and secure Israel and other middle easten Dictatorships that are US and UK Allies ect Infcat all these wars seem to have done if P off more muslims and make us more unsafe and suck our freedoms. If politicans can come clean and tell us in simple terms with facts a figure of WHY these two most resent wars have benifited the everyday man then great! But they dont. And to top things off they are desprately wanted to meddle in Syria! The only thing holding them back is the public like me that would go nuts!

No its not the Vetrans fault they are being used or unjust wars. But you cant expect me to pat them on the back and say well done for current jobs they shouldnt be doing! All I can do is feel bad for them that they are being used are mercenarys and hitmen and maybe give to charitys to help pick up the peices when they come home.

I hope that puts my views in a clear manner? If not tell what part you dont understand and I will try and explain.

reply to post by luciddream

I will agree that this war is all about money. But the soldiers going to fight are not fighting for money; they are fighting for honor and freedom. It's the people sending them to an improper war that are the problem, not the soldiers. The soldiers deserve our respect.

I do not think the terrorists are coming to get me... I am actually more worried (far more worried actually) about the government coming to get me than anyone else. But that's now. What about during WWII? That was an actual threat of world domination by a few charismatic and fanatic leaders (and yes, I know all about the conspiracies surrounding events during that war). Had we not fought, we would be eating weinerschnitzel today, and I hate weinerschnitzel.

What about the Civil War? The enemy actually DID come to get my ancestors, and killed many of them. Unfortunately, we lost that war.

What about the Revolutionary War? If we had lost that one, we'd still be drinking tea and eating crumpets. I hate crumpets too.

Sorry, but I do not accept taking one instance and turning it into a broad policy, and I do not accept demonizing those who are simply doing what they think is right instead of concentrating our ire on those who actually are creating the problems. The military is not the problem; the top-level military leaders are the problem.

TheRedneck

reply to post by crazyewok

I agree with you on the wars in the ME. Completely. Absolutely. And after doing some research, I can tell you that this particular rabbit hole goes deeper than you probably know. I actually started making a thread on it, but there's too much information to fit... maybe a book someday...

But this:

But you cant expect me to pat them on the back and say well done for current jobs they shouldnt be doing!

I will disagree with. There are at times evil people who rise up in this world, and someone has to put them down lest we cease to exist along with your freedom to feel the way you do. When that happens, and it does happen from time to time, we need the military. We need a military that is well-trained and well-prepared to face the threat and defend us. That kind of military does not spring into being overnight, with the one exception of the Revolutionary War. But we can't count on that, because the French Revolution had similar beginnings and turned into a series of random massacres. Just because we got lucky once does mean we should place our freedom in the hands of blind luck.

How do you expect anyone to make that sacrifice, a sacrifice that we are not making, after watching those who do so become demonized to such an extent? How do you expect any military to be able to perform on any level when individual soldiers are laying down arms because of political views? Neither will happen. Neither can happen. And instead of fixing the problem, which is the improper war activities of a few highly-placed individuals, your attitude is instead ensuring that anyone who wishes to take over a peaceful people in the future can do so easily because no one is willing to resist them.

You exercise your freedom by demonizing those who are doing what we did not, ignoring the actions of those who cause your issues, in a desperate effort to remove your freedom, and mine with it. That I have a problem with, and so should you.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


I never talked bad about past wars(mainly pre WWII) that had a meaning behind them, but i have been anti-military since 2004. It should have ended with Afghanistan.

Soldiers are partially to blame, they volunteerly enlist. Some actually have a goal in mind to go to into military while they are n high school(which is really sad).

The government or whoever is in charge of this propaganda is already made people rely on CURRENT military service as necessary part of life and career.

Originally posted by semperfortis
I believe that the stronger my country is the more others will respect her.

Morally stronger sure, but when you're trying to become materialistically stronger through subversion,
the rest of the world begins to RESENT you.

reply to post by luciddream

It should have ended with WWII, excepting a few minor skirmishes that I feel warranted an assist. But that is still beside the point.

If tomorrow, Kim Jon Un revealed he had a larger military complex than we know of today, by launching missiles into California, would you still be anti-military? I think not. But you cannot change from pro-military to anti-military that fast. You either want a military defending you or you do not; you don't get to change your mind on this when the situation calls for it, because when you weaken the military by making people loath to enter it, you destroy the ability of the military to respond when you need it.

Criticize the war in Iraq/Afghanistan/Syria all you want... I'll support you completely. These wars are being waged incorrectly and for improper purposes. But when you make the leap to criticizing soldiers for being soldiers, I will oppose you with every ounce of my being, because you endanger all we love and know.

I am also proud of those who choose to enlist early; without them, there would be again be a draft, and as much as it hurts me to say this, I do not want my son in the line of fire.

TheRedneck

reply to post by luciddream

Soldiers are partially to blame, they volunteerly enlist. Some actually have a goal in mind to go to into military while they are n high school(which is really sad).

Military recruiters INTENTIONALLY target the bottom third of kds that are graduating high school. Do you know why that is?

Because they are more like to be easily led. Many of them come from places full of crime and poverty. Many of them are from broken homes, and many of them can see no future at all in their hometown.

Put yourself in their shoes. You are about to graduate high shool, you have no job, income, insurance, nothing at all. Maybe working at the local walmart or mcdonalds is being contemplated.

Then you have this sharp looking guy in a crisp army uniform offer to take you to lunch one day. He tells you that if you sign up for the Army, you can have a job, a steady paycheck, a roof over your head, 3 meals a day, you get to travel and go to different places all over the world, You can get college money. You can gain life experience and have friends (something alot of lower class kids struggle with in high school.) You can retire in only 20 years and military service loks good on a resume.

How would you feel about it then? Is it really so implausible to see why people join?

reply to post by semperfortis

So yes, I am a PATRIOT. I have earned the right to be a Patriot.

The only question is this….

Have you earned the right to criticize me?

Unless I'm mistaken, your catch phrase is, "The only opinion that matters is mine."

All jokes aside, I am not interested in criticizing you. What would I criticize you for? Exercising your right to believe in something? Exercising your right to have an opinion? Exercising your right to choose something for which you would bleed and cry and sacrifice your liberties? No. You have every right, and I respect that. Your reasons are your own, and I respect that as well.

Having said that, I have no complaints or objections at all regarding your declaration of patriotism. In fact, all the more power to you. I hope you get everything you wanted from it and more. I have no problems with you exercising your rights. It's kind of funny, actually. You exercise your rights because you're a patriot because you have those rights. It's a cycle. And a beautiful one.

At least you stand for something you can believe in.

Great post! I completely agree with views and laud your service!

The piece that is missing from the national equation,( Not your view of it)

Is the "liberty" aspect. The original one, not just "freedom', but responsibility. The civilians. The "voters".

We who empower our elected officials, we who are FULLY responsible for the actions of our gov't.

We have let YOU down. Not the other way around. We have failed you, betrayed your devotion and trust.

Surely this isn't our servicemen's fault.

We get the gov't we deserve says it better than anything I can think of.....

Originally posted by semperfortis
I am a patriot. I love my country with all of my heart and all of my soul. I love my country so much, I have devoted my life to serving her; well at least the last 33 years.

I have given my sweat, blood and tears for her and sacrificed financially, emotionally and physically.

I would do it all again.

I believe that the stronger my country is the more others will respect her.

Define what you mean by stronger? As in more powerful?

Let me ask you this, what makes you respect a person? Is it because they are strong, or wise? Is it because they are powerful, or honest? I would hope that you would choose the latter over the former, for both questions.

I asked you to define strength because to me, strength is being wise and honest, not strong and powerful.
The more people that work for a company, the more powerful their CEO becomes. Does that demand your respect? Has that earned your respect?

Do you even believe that respect must be earned, or that people in power simply deserve respect because we fear them?

Ask yourself these questions and then apply them to our country. Should everyone simply respect America because it is the most powerful? Wouldn't the most powerful country in the world also be the most potentially dangerous? Should people just kiss our ass because we are the big whiney bully down the street? Or should we have to earn our respect with wisdom, honesty, and compassion? You really shouldn't have to think twice about that question.

Why not be a universal patriot?
You don't have to limit yourself.

reply to post by ElOmen


He hasn't "limited" himself. You have.

The virtues he expounds are universal. They work for all mankind.

If the founding fathers had been able to create The Constitution on a world-wide basis, he'd have been just as loyal and dedicated to that cause as he is to U.S..

It was an articulated "ideal". A standard which hasn't been lived up to, yet even the striving for it allowed this nation to achieve some pretty amazing results.

The same ideals the rest of the world chose to ignore in the day.

Rather than decry it, contribute to it. When joined with others of good will, much can be achieved.