I am a patriot and I love the United States of America

reply to post by OneManArmy

I was simply trying to display a perspective from someone that lives outside the USA looking in.

So am I.

And I agree with you on some things and disagree on others - as much as I'd like to I'm not going to enter into a debate with you on exactly what, that's not what this thread is about.
It's very easy to write a list of 'reasons why the world hates the USA' but it's very one-sided - your side no-one else's, it's not a definitive list.

I don't buy into all this self-hate that seems to be in vogue at the moment but neither do I fall for the blind patriotism that seems to affect far too many.

The main points of my post were that just the same as many countries there is much to admire about the USA and much to dislike and in that as in most things it's far from being unique despite what many may believe.
And the other main point really was that sometimes it's pays to not only look at things from our own perspective but from other's too - why do they feel the way they do? - it's something most of us fail to do all too frequently.

reply to post by beezzer




splendid riposte!

reply to post by OneManArmy


What you said here goes for me too.
There is so much to admire about America, but while the present warmongering continues, anyone with their eyes open has to deal with that above all.

Surely hating an entire country, is as foolish a notion as loving one.

As for Britain - it was only ever called "Great" to differentiate it from Brittany in France, which is smaller.
I don't see any justification for the appellation now, especially as those Englishmen whose IQ resembles their shoe size use it as a triumphal gloat at every opportunity.
As if the damage we did to the world enhanced our status somehow...
Yes America -- we did it before you did -- and more comprehensively by far.
Can you not learn from our mistakes ?
Does it have to happen all over again ?


mistersmith.

reply to post by Freeborn


Outstanding post, freeborn. Pretty much says it all.

TeIt's very easy to write a list of 'reasons why the world hates the USA' but it's very one-sided - your side no-one else's, it's not a definitive list. xt

reply to post by Freeborn

It always amazes me how these countries hate the US, but the first country they ask help from, when they are in trouble, is the US. The first country to send aid, in the form of food, clothing and medical supplies and doctors, is the US, when a natural disaster strikes. In cases like this, we aren't Uncle Sam, we're treated as if we are Uncle Sap. The French hate us, but who freed them from the Nazi's? Hint, it wasn't Germany. It was the US, the UK and Canada that shed their blood to free them. When we removed Sadam from Iraq, people said we did it for oil. News flash- none of their oil ever made it to the US,nor did we try to take it.
I could go on, but why bother............We're just the country people love to hate, and some on this thread have proven that point. It reminds my of an old saying back in the 1960's about Hippies hating cops. "Next time you are in trouble, call a hippie. Next time you are in trouble, don't call US.

Am I a patriot?

Am I a meathead?

I am an American who represents a family that has been here since the 1600's. I am proud of my ancestors for helping to pave the way for our country.

Have I served?

No, but would I if my country really needed it for survival

I haven't served but I personally thank you for your service.

To be quite honest here, i wasnt going to type this but,,,, I am personally getting a little tired of the soldier worshipping that has taken over lately. Still thankful, but damn man, ill leave it at that.

You never know, that courthouse you are fighting for that interprets the constitution just might have my initials on it somewhere, because i put in my blood sweat and tears into building it.

Does that make me less?

reply to post by Freeborn

From Freeborn's post :-
"And the other main point really was that sometimes it's pays to not only look at things from our own perspective but from other's too -"

I agree entirely, and I think it's a fact which is well demonstrated in this thread.

Those of peaceful inclination are looking for the causes of the other side's argument -- misplaced pride, -susceptibility to propaganda, - the wish to be, or be seen as, a hero, - the fear of being judged a loser, etc.,

Then, a masterful display of whinging ignorance from the professor, typical of the OP's gestalt, in which those who don't share the Neocon vision are simply branded as Hippies, and dismissed.

Perhaps when one's political philosophy is based on TV soundbites, and talk show drivel, it is as well not to investigate too deeply the veracity of one's "received wisdom."
Better by far to use the flag as a blindfold, and just shout louder than the other guy.

mistersmith.

Originally posted by OneManArmy
I see what you did there.

You told me what I believe then attacked that false belief, when you dont know what I believe obviously.
Because earlier in this thread I said exactly the same thing.

I have a great amount of respect for redneck, he stated his case in a balanced, intelligent, respectful, honest way and I agree with him 100%. Did I learn something from this thread?, yes I did, so Im a winner. The very first thing I said in the whole thread was "You are entitled to believe that", thats freedom, and I would DIE to protect his right to say it, as he would do for me.

I will not honour the soldiers that carry out atrocities in my name. I will not honour the soldiers at abu ghraib that treated people like animals, or any other soldier like them, they are not soldiers of honour, they are psychopaths.

And I certainly will not honour the desk jockey political class that vote them to their deaths, under-equipped on lies.

I simply stated what it looked like you were saying; that country and government are the same thing. I didn't read every post, so if you stated otherwise, I must have missed that. Apologies of so.

No one honors people that commit atrocities, but the vast bulk of people in the military do NOT commit such acts. The military people I have known would be more offended than the average non-military person at such things. That's not what the thread is about, however. It's about 'fighting for the right things, n the right way, and about loving the country, for what is means, even if the government gets out of line from time to time.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes


No one honors people that commit atrocities, but the vast bulk of people in the military do NOT commit such acts. The military people I have known would be more offended than the average non-military person at such things. That's not what the thread is about, however. It's about 'fighting for the right things, n the right way, and about loving the country, for what is means, even if the government gets out of line from time to time.

I used to work in home delivery, you will be surprised to know that people do actually unwittingly celebrate despots.

Stalin, Lenin, Mao all often appear hanging on the walls of people houses, I once told a customer that all the people that they have hanging on their walls were responsible for the deaths of millions of people, they quickly took the pictures down, but they probably put them back once I was gone.

And thank you for the apology, I too am also often guilty taking one post out of context, so I know how easy it is to do.

Originally posted by OneManArmy
I used to work in home delivery, you will be surprised to know that people do actually unwittingly celebrate despots.

Stalin, Lenin, Mao all often appear hanging on the walls of people houses, I once told a customer that all the people that they have hanging on their walls were responsible for the deaths of millions of people, they quickly took the pictures down, but they probably put them back once I was gone.

And thank you for the apology, I too am also often guilty taking one post out of context, so I know how easy it is to do.

I would suspect, if I saw such pictures, that the people knew exactly who they were honoring, and exactly what those people did. Pulling them down would be a lie to "prove to you" that they weren't really celebrating such things, when they surely were. If you get some people talking, they will even admit they have no issues with mass killings, as long as the people killed are those of opposing points of view. Sick, I know, but many people are like that.

reply to post by semperfortis


You sound like you have definitely earned the right to your opinion. And those who criticize, provoke or take aim in your direction have not walked a day in your shoes.

Being a patriot these days seems to have been turned around and the meaning lost on many a person.

However, I do believe the government is NOT the country regardless of how others interpret it. The people are the country, and those who chose to defend it at home and abroad deserve to some degree a greater say in the running of that country.

I may get slammed on here for that last saying, but in reality you should at least get back what you put in. Maybe that should be the lesson to people who like to "comment" and "mouth-off", they just haven't put in the time and sacrifice like the ones who have. So should their voice carry the same weight as those who have?

Nice post!!