I am a patriot and I love the United States of America

reply to post by semperfortis


And you dont realise how ridiculous you sound to us sane people in the world who relise there is better things in life than acting all so superior and arrogant and forceing ones belief onto others

Hell you keep fighting and risking your arse for people that dont give a crap. Thats your freedom to choose even if it is futile and pointless.

And would I die for my views? Like hell I would. But I will die for me not some corrupt polictian in some office somewere pandering to some oil company.

Yeah our voices might sound ridiculous to you but the thing is our voice make up the majority of the world. So you know who the ridiculous one?

And my right to critisise you? Well Im doing it right now arnt I.

Anyway you continue with you life of blind brainwashed servitude.

Originally posted by semperfortis
I do want to thank everyone that has replied.

Both negative and positive, you have substantiated my beliefs and further supported how I feel.

Your posts have shown I did not miss a thing.

So thank you all.

Just for the record

Don't want anyone feeling left out

reply to post by Mads1987

and it saddens me that you would blindly devote your life to a country who allowed you to have such a poor upbringing.

What?!

Logically, how can you say that a country is bad or the one to blame if there is one poor person in it? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. You sound more like a dreamer than a realist.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Patriotism can also be about a love of your own cultural traditions and customs through such things as art, literature, poetry, music and a shared sense of history and purpose. It can also be expressed through a love of nature - the wildlife and landscapes unique to your part of the world for example. Think about people from our history who you admire greatly, that is a form of patriotism.

You don't have to be a goose stepping automaton to be patriotic, something american conservatives seem to have forgotten..

reply to post by crazyewok


It has been my experience that those that care the least actually care the most when they directly receive that kind of service.

While I never served in the military nor in law enforcement, I can attest to performing a quasi-similar service in jobs I have done. I have done security in a hospital, dealing with those in various chemical and emotional states of mind. Being there as firm, stable and trusted guidance in such times when they ask questions or to translate medical jargon to plain English or even to be a hand to hold or shoulder to cry on when stressed almost always received a thank you, whether spoken or emoted from the look in their eyes. Sure, not everything I did as security was of a noble bent, but in four years I only had to draw back my hand once in preparation to lay down some serious violence. I would have been bothered that I had to go that far with him in order for him to back down, but later he had to have three police officers physically restrain him while on the bed. So I don't feel so bad about it.

My current job has me driving veterans, elderly and poor to doctor's appointments throughout the day as they have no other means of transportation. Yes, I paid by my employer who in turn is paid by contracts with various agencies (VA, Council on Aging, HFS, etc.) that receive that funding from the taxpayer. Most appreciate the service because they have no other means.

What Semper does is provide for others at his own personal risk so that those he helps doesn't have to take that risk themselves. And honestly, most the people that benefit from his service, never know that they received it. The drunk driver that he takes off the road, doesn't slam into their car three miles later sort of thing. Or the guy that "isn't hurting anyone doing drugs" doesn't rob their house a month later to get money for drugs...or do worse things while satisfying an urge while high. But the ones that call for him to come while something is going on appreciate him showing up, usually more than the ones I have helped directly. Since there is a world of difference in stress relief in arresting a robber and just giving directions to ICU. I can accept that difference because if I make a mistake, that family went to OB...Semper on the other hand could be shot if he makes a mistake.

I don't expect you to get it, I don't expect you to appreciate it and I bet that Semper doesn't want you to ever experience what it takes to understand it. Because that same blind hatred for what he does only serves to tell him that he has done his job right, because you don't know what it means to be in need.

I believe the real heart of the matter is illustrated in your first sentence. The phrase "my country". Is highly ambiguous.

When you drill down on that on concept you find out if an individual sees "my country" as some kind of judgmental ownership equity that others must conform to or if "my country" refers to your non judgmental association with the greater group of people that have diverse views and opinions.

From my observation, the people who crow about their patriotism are the ones who believe they have ownership equity that others should conform to. Taken to the extreme, it's WASP authoritarians desperately trying to hold on to the failing status quo using all means necessary. Measures including prejudice, intimidation, overt repression, insults, threats and violence.

What kind of place is "your country" and what types of people and behaviors are allowed there? How many citizens would you subordinate or "kick out" or "put in camps"?

Same here Semper, I love my country, damn proud to live here

reply to post by InverseLookingGlass

What kind of place is "your country" and what types of people and behaviors are allowed there?

Exactly what it is

A country that accepts all races, colors, creeds or religions that wish to come here legally

How many citizens would you subordinate or "kick out" or "put in camps"?

While a ridiculous question, the answer is in my OP

I have fought and bled for freedom

What have you done?

I can see Semper's point. You can love your country and hate your government. I do, strictly Canuckian though. I won't speak for him but I'd wager he's not too fond of Obama. The difference in my case is that, as a conservative(yes, now you know), I'm appalled by the totalitarian regime that is our Conservative gov't. Service to ones country shouldn't come with ridicule. "Brainwashed". "Robot". And he's also right imo to say that if you haven't served you don't know what it's about. Thus the ridicule is ignorant in the least and misguided at best.

reply to post by intrepid


I am not fond of Harper either!, im biased i guess, he is pro old people, anti young people.

reply to post by semperfortis


I'm not offended by your opinion, which is all it is and is no more valid than others no matter how much you think so.

But I do disagree with parts of it, like the part where you say you (or others) have fought for my freedoms. I'm sorry, but that is just pure propaganda used to get young men to go die. Our freedom has not been in any danger in the recent past. One could argue that maybe WWII was a fight for our freedom, but that is debatable. The last time we really had a fight for our freedom was the Civil War, and thank god the Union prevailed.

I respect soldiers for what they do and I try not to solely blame them for the atrocities they commit because they do have to follow orders. But it drives me nuts when some grunt claims he fought for my freedoms...he fought for the glory of the empire and to further the empires influence and strategic interests...he did not fight for the citizens...and it's a hard truth, but neither did you.

The surest sign of patriotism, and love of country is to be willing to criticize it.

However, that is, by necessity, followed by deeds. I'm proud to say that Semper is my friend, and I know he works to make his country a better place. Those of you who call him "brainwashed", "puppet", or various other epithets should really be very careful about aspersions... The backsplash of your hypocrisy could get messy...

He's done. Have you? Somehow I doubt it.

He talks the talk, he also walks the walk. Do you? Somehow I doubt it. 'cause it's much, much easier to call someone names, and point and laugh, then it is to match it.

I may disagree, sometimes, with Semper... He, at least, puts his money where his mouth is. Past, present, and future... Have you? Do you? Will you? Somehow I doubt it...

But, hey, continue to call names if that makes you happy.

Originally posted by intrepid
I can see Semper's point......And he's also right imo to say that if you haven't served you don't know what it's about. Thus the ridicule is ignorant in the least and misguided at best.

But he is not just saying that if you haven't served you don't know what it's about. He is saying that if you haven't served or if your opinions differ from his your opinions are without merit. Which is a very totalitarian and arrogant position to take on any matter. There is nothing more important than free speech and allowing people to engage in dialog.
I have no interest in ridiculing anyone for their actions - but I think it's important to be able to have a critical dialog about any subject.

Nobody is above critique, nobody is above ridicule, nothing is holy.

reply to post by Mads1987


Critique is fine but few deserve ridicule. THAT'S the point.

reply to post by intrepid


That's a point I can agree to. Ridicule is not very productive. But he did ask the question "have you earned the right to criticize me?" or something like that. Implying that only a select few has that right. But in my opinion everyone has that right..

reply to post by semperfortis


Everyone should be proud of where their from. I'm from Newfoundland and very proud to be a newfie, more so than being Canadian. But there's one thing that bugs me about your post, it almost sounds robotic.

reply to post by Ahabstar

What Semper does is provide for others at his own personal risk so that those he helps doesn't have to take that risk themselves. And honestly, most the people that benefit from his service, never know that they received it. The drunk driver that he takes off the road, doesn't slam into their car three miles later sort of thing. Or the guy that "isn't hurting anyone doing drugs" doesn't rob their house a month later to get money for drugs...or do worse things while satisfying an urge while high. But the ones that call for him to come while something is going on appreciate him showing up, usually more than the ones I have helped directly. Since there is a world of difference in stress relief in arresting a robber and just giving directions to ICU. I can accept that difference because if I make a mistake, that family went to OB...Semper on the other hand could be shot if he makes a mistake.

I think you strayed from the subject at hand. We are talking about what it means to be a patriot here. On his own account, OP described what he feels is patriotism to him. For him, it literally means to trust every word from the government. Even though it's public knowledge...being in gov is big busyness all around for many interested parties. And where is money to be earned...you can never fully trust people. Unfortunately. Make no mistake...it's big money.

The OP proposes to ignore all that. To ignore a history of deceit by those in power...( one way or the other )...to ignore corrupt wars, millions of innocent killed, huge industrial-military groups that hold power over life and death...and often play many sides of the conflict (where is their patriotism ???)...

He is telling us that he is noble and a martyr for playing along...for being a good soldier...for being a tool.

Each man chooses his own line to follow...the OP chose his and I respect that. But no sympathy or thank you from my corner.

In fact...if asked...I would prefer...don't help me...it hurts when you help.


edit.

I'm not proposing the >US> Gov is in any way worse than many others. Even my Gov. It's just a matter of scale. It's just a puppet show for the TV. You are never informed or asked about most of the military actions. It's all decided in secrecy...covert stuff. Tops secret sh**.

I don't think that any parent wants to send his child in to war. Nobody wants to get killed...and in fact...last 50 years...no American needed to die...and many did...for what ? Freedom ? Safety ?

Newsflash...you are less and less free...and obviously you feel even more threathened...with ever more increase in "security".

Originally posted by seagull
The surest sign of patriotism, and love of country is to be willing to criticize it.

However, that is, by necessity, followed by deeds. I'm proud to say that Semper is my friend, and I know he works to make his country a better place. Those of you who call him "brainwashed", "puppet", or various other epithets should really be very careful about aspersions... The backsplash of your hypocrisy could get messy...

He's done. Have you? Somehow I doubt it.

He talks the talk, he also walks the walk. Do you? Somehow I doubt it. 'cause it's much, much easier to call someone names, and point and laugh, then it is to match it.

I may disagree, sometimes, with Semper... He, at least, puts his money where his mouth is. Past, present, and future... Have you? Do you? Will you? Somehow I doubt it...

But, hey, continue to call names if that makes you happy.

So what you have to join the military and be a tool of the puppet masters to actually matter?

Fact is I dont agree with what my country is doing abroad (following USA foreign policy) so why would I sign up ?

To the OP

SO I guess:

1) You think the USA should go into Russia and forceable remove snowden?

2) Should be able to make its own rules to follow while telling the rest of the world to follow another?

3) think the USA is moraly superior than the rest of the world?

4)Think that Americans should get special treatment?

5) The USA should protect its own war criminals like william calley while hunting down other countrys war criminals?

6) Should be allowed to imprison and toture foreign nationals without trial or oversight?

7) think things like the patriot act and NSA spying are good things?

My country, may she ever be right, but right or wrong, my country

Not a popular sentiment, Semper, but an opportune post at this point in human history. We live in a country today that is plagued by charges of military interference, police brutality, governmental violations of laws, oppression, institutionalized racism, and blatant international aggression.

Is it true? Yes. Part of it at least. Perhaps most of it. Certainly enough of those allegations are founded in fact to make me cringe a little bit whenever I call myself an American. But despite that, I am an American. and because I am an American, I can write this post on an Internet forum without being concerned about someone showing up in the middle of the night, breaking in my door, and dragging me away to someplace like Siberia or New Jersey without a trace.

Being an American means a lot more than just the implications from the local headlines. It means I am part of a Great Experiment, a limited government that is to uphold the rights of all those who share the title "American," a society that values hard work and sacrifice, a people who were not afraid to rise up against tyranny and oppression to throw off their bonds and declare themselves free. One of my ancestors married and bought land in 1775 in Virginia, then sold that land in 1776 and disappeared form the official record. Family writings confirmed he went to serve in the Revolutionary War with two of this brothers and never returned.

Richard did not go to a building and sign up for service, get shipped out to basic training and fight with advanced weaponry in order to get the GI Bill for school. He sold everything he owned, kissed his new wife goodbye, bought what weapons and gear he could, and showed up at the front line, ready to defend his homeland. That's how it worked back then.

Richard died fighting for his country. That's how it often works even today. He didn't come back. He didn't respawn, he didn't get more lives, he didn't have to create a new character. He died.

I had two uncles who fought with honor in WWII. One was a conscientious objector. He still served, as a Medic. I have heard he was under at least as much fire as those he was trying to save, rushing headlong into fire time after time to get to the fallen. He was not afraid; he simply didn't want to kill.

The other also served with honor, on the front line.

My own father served in the Army in Korea. He was a soldier on the front lines. He never talked about it much after he got back, but sitting in an old trunk is a stack of medals and a hand-carved propeller for a toy airplane he brought back for his son.

Back when I was younger, it was considered improper to talk against those who had served their country in the military. No, not just improper... more like sacrilegious. There was talk about not wanting to be involved in wars, but never did I hear a single comment disparaging the soldiers go unanswered... and rarely did I even hear such a comment made. Today it is different. Somehow it has become accepted and even expected in some circles to speak out against those brave men who serve their country.

A close frined had his adopted son enlist a while back. He was in Afghanistan when the mobile communications center he was running was attacked. They attackers took out the power first, then tried to reach the transmission tower where he was. He sat there, in the dark, clutching his rifle, listening to the sounds of battle and wondering when he would be faced with either killing an attacker or dying himself. He said after the firefight died down was the hardest part. As he waited for the power to be restored, he had no idea if the silence meant his squadron was dead and he was next or if it meant the attackers were dead and his comrades were repairing the damage. When he relayed this story, I could see the fear in his eyes, but also I could see the pride that he had kept his head under fire.

A week later, I saw my best friend, a bear of a man, break down talking about it. Then I saw the same thing a week after that. Again a few weeks later. Today I avoid the subject at all costs, because I don't want him to re-experience learning that he almost lost his son.

I still have a family member who recently enlisted. He is serving his country with honor, and I rarely get to see him any more. I miss him. I worry about him. But I am also proud of him.

When someone talks badly about the soldiers serving this country, they are talking badly about Richard from long ago, my uncles, my father, my best friend's son, and my kin serving now. People can do that on the Internet, but please don't try that to my face. The results are not something I enjoy. Enjoy your anonymity, your safety sitting behind a computer screen, your false bravado while clothed in security. But do not confuse that situation with reality... for in reality, when one man faces another, such words can be akin to a slap in the face.