Georgia teen denied life-saving heart transplant due to ‘non-compliance’

reply to post by CaticusMaximus

Organ transplantation should be illegal, it just sets people up for a reduced quality of life of having to rely on anti-rejection drugs and endless debt.

Just being wealthy enough to afford it shouldn't be the determining factor between life and death.

Once transplantation is available to everyone equally, fine go at it, but not until then.

How important do some people really believe themselves to be, nobody lives forever anyway.

Originally posted by 1roger1
reply to post by goou111

 

Since when does psychologic history have anything to do with medical necessity. OH boy.

Quite relevant. If you give a liver to an alcoholic, that organ is wasted. If you give a heart to someone who has attempted suicide, that organ may be wasted. If you give an organ to someone who is institutionalized for schizophrenia instead of a working father or mother, what value is derived from that organ. Like it or not, we have a finite supply of healthy organs and the demand for those organs is much higher than the organs available. Given this, the ethical answer is to try to derive as much benefit as possible from each and every organ.

reply to post by Happy1


Where do you people come up with this crap?

I thought Cheney had some artificial heart..it does not beat.

Money into research could give better solutions than donars in short supply. Everyone needs the chance..druggy,fat,smoker...stem cells and lab grown...could fix this one day. Maybe a 3d amino acid printer.

reply to post by goou111


If I had to choose between giving a heart to a future criminal or a future businessman it would be the latter in a heartbeat. Who is more likely to follow directions?

reply to post by NavyDoc


You do know that our most brilliant minds tend to be mentally ill?

reply to post by buster2010

About time that came up, Thanks.

Insurance is the problem, oh, and capitalism.

I only wonder how long it will be before we read about animals at the humane society being killed for organ transplants for wealthy people's pets.

Only a small step to taking organs from the poor who can't defend themselves either, dead men tell no tales.

Originally posted by CaticusMaximus
Organs are very valuable, and there are not enough to go around for to all those who need them. Doctors need to objectively evaluate the situation and determine who is the most likely to benefit the greatest from the organ, and not squander it.

If this person has reliability issues, and may not follow up with procedures like meds and other things, that puts them at an objective disadvantage when other people who need the exact same heart have a proven track record of reliability and are more likely to make it last.

Its really not that hard to see the logic behind it.

For all the bleeding hearts here who are outraged just to be outraged and crying "murder!", use some rudimentary logic... if this person gets the heart, someone else DOES NOT, and they die instead.

Would you go and cry for that person, then? The one who didnt get the heart, If this person DID get the heart? Are you so sure that other person was not more deserving?

Nah... I doubt it would have even crossed any of your minds.

edit on 8/13/2013 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)

You wrote around 1200 characters of pure rationalization of atrocious behavior. It seems as if you are supporting these doctors pretending that because there is an appearance of official capacity in their actions, there is also legitimacy in those actions. Nothing could be further from the truth.

As a species we shoot ourselves in the foot. We could have the research that allows us to grow our own organs. But we don't. And we could take tax dollars from the failed "War on Drugs" and put them into campaigns to improve organ donation (since thousands die everyday), but we don't.

Instead we pay some stodgy old fart with overgrown eyebrows to make decisions on who is and is not worthy to live. They act like those organs are theirs to dole out to whoever they see fit.

I agree with Wrabbit on this one. 100%

Originally posted by CaticusMaximus
Organs are very valuable, and there are not enough to go around for to all those who need them. Doctors need to objectively evaluate the situation and determine who is the most likely to benefit the greatest from the organ, and not squander it.

If this person has reliability issues, and may not follow up with procedures like meds and other things, that puts them at an objective disadvantage when other people who need the exact same heart have a proven track record of reliability and are more likely to make it last.

Its really not that hard to see the logic behind it.

For all the bleeding hearts here who are outraged just to be outraged and crying "murder!", use some rudimentary logic... if this person gets the heart, someone else DOES NOT, and they die instead.

Would you go and cry for that person, then? The one who didnt get the heart, If this person DID get the heart? Are you so sure that other person was not more deserving?

Nah... I doubt it would have even crossed any of your minds.

edit on 8/13/2013 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)

true indeed, as someone who's been through this process i can assure you there is a great deal of responsibility for the patient and care givers to endure for the rest of their lives. miss your meds and you will probably die, miss appointments and you take time away from people who have little if any to spare.

you have to be a responsible, decent human being to be considered for transplant, maybe a goal for our youth eh. you have to have a positive attitude, be morally in tact and care for those as well, whom care for you. you must have lots of friends and family willing to donate their time to care for you. transplants are the most complex procedures known to man kind, so i'm sorry when i say, the B-non receiving team wont be joining the A-receiving team on transplants because that persons life just doesn't cut the mustard.

Having read through the article and all realevant information the following can be stated:

Before everyone flames me for this, please read the entire post, and do not take it out of context. This is for pure information and one which should be taken into consideration.

The case here is a young 15 year old male who needs a new heart. If he does not get one, in 6 months he will die. His doctors after reviewing the case, have determined that he is a bad canidate for recieving a heart transplant and will not be put on the list to recieve a heart transplant. His family cites this is about race and class, the hospital maintains it is his past actions that account for their decisions.

Having given this much thought, I can only conclude that the hospital is correct and ultimately this has nothing to do with race or class. How this reasoning was come to.

First look at the area where this story came out, Atlanta, a large city with a very large population of African Americans, so it can not, at least not plausible, that this is a case of racial discrimination. And as like most hospitals, it recieves funding from the different government agencies, so that would kill discrimination due to the economic situation. So that leads to past actions.

This heart problem, that the young man has, it did not come about all of the sudden, over night it was there, chances are that he has had it for a long while. And there is a good chance that in the past, when he saw doctors and specialists, they gave him a very specific regimine of exercises and diet for him to follow. There is also a good chance that they also gave him medication to help him out. Now if the young man did not take his medicines, or follow the doctors instructions, this could have led to a worsening of his conditions.

Many doctors are starting to fire their patients, not due to class or race, but they are tired of seeing the same person come in for the same problem when it is very clear that the person is not following doctors orders. I am surprised that the first doctors to do this happens to be the organ transplant specialists, rather than doctors who treat diabetes. I have heard of doctors that just refuse to treat some patients due to non compliance on the part of the patient. And can you blame them for such? It is wasting of their time to treat someone who is not showing any concern or care for their own well being, and disregarding their own health.

This kind of medical proceedure is expensive, and ultimately the government does offer assistence to pay for such proceedure, however with any and all government money, there are strings attached. The problem here is the young mans criminal past. It takes time to get onto the programs, and if you have any run ins with the law, and the article states he does have a criminal past, every time he is in jail, the money stops and takes time to get restarted.

Then there is one other thing that no one considered, this is a list, and like all lists, even if he was put on it, there is no chance that a viable heart that his body will not reject, can be found in time to save his life. And even if there was, the hospital has to look at the aftercare, and he would have to stick to follow the doctors orders to the letter, to include taking his medications, some will make him sick, make all of his appointments, and ultimately do no deviations to what the doctors are stating. Any deviation following a major surgery like this could cause the new heart to fail and then what, he dies, who is at fault then?


No, the real sad part is that the hospital has a lot of patients and a finite amount of resources to use on those patients. Decisions have to be made, that includes deciding who does and does not get a body part replaced and who does and does not quality for such.

Originally posted by suz62
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

You do know that our most brilliant minds tend to be mentally ill?

If one is drooling in catatonic, what difference does it make?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

-- Nearly 120,000 men, women and children currently need lifesaving organ transplants.
-- Every 10 minutes another name is added to the national organ transplant waiting list.
-- An average of 18 people die each day from the lack of available organs for transplant.
-- In 2012, there were 14,013 Organ Donors resulting in 28,052 organ transplants.
-- In 2012, more than 46,000 corneas were transplanted.
-- More than 1 million tissue transplants are done each year and the surgical need for tissue has been steadily rising.
-- According to research, 98% of all adults have heard about organ donation and 86% have heard of tissue donation.
-- 90% of Americans say they support donation, but only 30% know the essential steps to take to be a donor.

And a little over 30% actually register as organ donors. If more people registered we could resolve the problem and everyone could get the organs they need WHILE we work toward alternative solutions.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus

A decision is about simple return on investment.

Is this what humanity is being reduced to?

He's a 15 year old boy with bad grades and some discipline issues - how many 15 year old boys does that describe? How is it possible to even consider that criteria, let alone good criteria?

I wonder how many people in life who went on to be worthwhile investments were once 15 year old boys - with bad grades and discipline issues...

Since they can't know for certain that he won't make all his appointments or take his meds, they've made a judgment call

This young man needs a heart now - it should be about who is the best match for what's available - now

Maybe we should have a system in place where if he survives and goes on to become a graffiti artist or flunk out of community college instead of becoming a neurosurgeon - or banker - we just take the heart back

Does that seem fair?

Originally posted by MyHappyDogShiner
reply to post by CaticusMaximus

 

Organ transplantation should be illegal, it just sets people up for a reduced quality of life of having to rely on anti-rejection drugs and endless debt.

Just being wealthy enough to afford it shouldn't be the determining factor between life and death.

Once transplantation is available to everyone equally, fine go at it, but not until then.

How important do some people really believe themselves to be, nobody lives forever anyway.

So if you can't save everyone, you should save no one?


Typical Stalinism--instead of lifting up as many people as you can, drag them all down in the name of "equality."

Originally posted by buster2010
He is poor, black also he is not into sports or entertainment so he is obviously not worth saving. Whoever made that decision needs to lose their job now so they can go find a heart for themselves because they were born without one.

I would star that 100 times if I could

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis


He's a 15 year old boy with bad grades and some discipline issues - how many 15 year old boys does that describe? How is it possible to even consider that criteria, let alone good criteria?

Me.

I wonder how many people in life who went on to be worthwhile investments were once 15 year old boys - with bad grades and discipline issues...

Me.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by CaticusMaximus

 

A decision is about simple return on investment.

This young man needs a heart now - it should be about who is the best match for what's available - now

that's what it is about, the best match doesn't entail what you may think which is what a lot of people assume when they first encounter the transplant realm.

fact of the matter is, there isn't enough organs to go around for various reasons, i won't get into detail on that. suffice it to say they give them to the people who seem to be the most likely to survive it. surviving a transplant entails a great deal of commitment, honesty, trustworthiness, many care givers, solid foundation to say the least and i know it's a terrible thing, but this boy has less of those merits than some other person or kid who is waiting also.

So for all you people that are raging against the injustice of this action, how many of you are registered organ donors? Believe me, I get the outrage. But I also know how the 'system' works (or is supposed to). Thousands of otherwise deserving people are denied transplants every day for a variety of reasons.

reply to post by beezzer


:-)

and because posting only a home made smiley will probably get me slapped:

thanks for reminding me why I keep coming back to this place

reply to post by goou111


1 prays for he and his health situation to receive some type of transplant/treatment to assist his life developments.
The stipulations as to why he cannot be given a chance 1 shall not elaborate on. But will remain hopeful for he that some who have the financial opportunity can assist he and others like he suffering. Its not easy to survive here @ times.

GOD BLESS and best wishes for he and his family...

LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******