Evolution backed up by Hoaxes and Desperate Lies

Evolutionists today use the same Pharisaic approach: ‘Believe as we do,’ they say. ‘All competent scientists believe evolution. All intelligent people believe it. Only the uneducated and the ignorant don’t believe it.’ By such intimidation and mental bullying, masses of people are herded into the evolutionists’ camp. They know nothing of the weaknesses and inadequacies of evolutionary theory or its unsound speculations and hypothesized impossibilities​—such as the origin of life from inanimate chemicals.* So they are swept along by the repetitious mantras recited by evolution’s propagandizers. The theory becomes dogma, its preachers become arrogant, and dissenters reap disdainful abuse. The tactics work. They did in Jesus’ day; they do today.

This four-​word propaganda line, ‘Evolution is a fact,’ is little (little in content), is a simple sentence (easily said), and is repeated persistently (even 12 times in one short essay). It qualifies as effective brainwashing propaganda, and with repetition it reaches the status of a slogan​—and slogans everywhere repeated are soon programmed into brains and tripped off tongues with little critical examination or skeptical dissection. Once a theory has been sloganized into community thinking, it no longer requires proof, and any who dissent are scorned. If such dissenters present rational refutation of the slogan’s validity, they are especially irritating and subjected to the only available response, namely, ridicule.

Evolutionists that specialize in the Big Lie that ‘Evolution is a fact’ also take another leaf out of Hitler’s book, for in it he said of the masses he controlled: “With the primitive simplicity of their minds they will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one, since they themselves perhaps also lie sometimes in little things, but would certainly still be too much ashamed of too great lies.” A book of popular quotations lists this one among them: “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it often enough, many will believe it.” The one evolutionists tell is apparently big enough, and it’s certainly told often enough, for millions believe it.

It is a lie that is also a fraud because it is “an act of deceiving or misrepresenting,” an “intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value.” Teaching that man’s ancestors are animals, starting with some microbe and ending with some ape, evolutionists have “exchanged the truth of God for the lie.” By this lie, they induce many to part with something of great value​—their faith in God as their Creator.​—Romans 1:25.

This fraud does terrible damage. Its victims feel freed from the Creator’s laws, and they become a law to themselves: ‘No right or wrong. Fulfill all fleshly desires. Do your own thing. No need for any guilt trips.’ Enter the moral breakdown, unrestrained and full-​blown. Parted from their Creator and the true values of the Bible, they become spiritually impoverished and end up “like unreasoning animals born naturally to be caught and destroyed.”​—2 Peter 2:12.

*: as discussed in for example the Drake equation thread, or see Life​—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation?, chapter 4.

“Propaganda will not lead to success unless a fundamental principle is considered with continually sharp attention: it has to confine itself to little and to repeat this eternally. Here, too, persistency, as in so many other things in this world, is the first and the most important condition for success. . . . The masses . . . will lend their memories only to the thousandfold repetition of the most simple ideas. A change must never alter the content of what is being brought forth by propaganda, but in the end it always has to say the same. Thus the slogan has to be illuminated from various sides, but the end of every reflection has always and again to be the slogan itself.”​—Mein Kampf, by Adolf Hitler.

The Big-​Lie Propaganda

“As to the fact of evolution there is universal assent.”​—Limitations of Science, 1933.

“Evolution as a historical fact was proved beyond reasonable doubt not later than in the closing decades of the nineteenth century.”​—The Biological Basis of Human Freedom, 1956.

“The evolution of life is no longer a theory. It is a fact.”​—Julian Huxley, 1959.

“All reputable biologists have agreed that the evolution of life on the earth is an established fact.”​—Biology for You, 1963.

“Anyone who is exposed to the evidence supporting evolution must recognize it as an historical fact.”​—The New Orleans Times-​Picayune, 1964.

“Today, the theory of evolution is an accepted fact for everyone but a fundamentalist minority.”​—James D. Watson, 1965.

“Evolution has, by now, the status of fact.”​—Science on Trial, 1983.

“What we do have is incontrovertible proof of the fact of evolution.”​—Ashley Montagu, 1984.

Fraud in Science​—The Greatest Fraud of All

Evolutionists say: ‘Evolution is a fact; God is a myth.’ They have proof for neither, but prejudice needs no proof.

PRIVATE PROPERTY. Keep Out. This Means You, God! Evolutionists post the subject of biology and tell God to stay out of it. ‘All competent scientists believe evolution,’ they say. Which also says, in effect: ‘Scientists who do not believe are incompetent; they lack our expertise.’ As for God, they say he has no place in scientific thinking. Moreover, even his existence is not provable.

This glib dismissal of God is the greatest fraud of all.

The New Biology, by Robert Augros and George Stanciu, highlights on page 188 some of the statements of prominent scientists who brush God aside: “The common opinion holds that Darwin rid biology of the need for God once and for all. Eldredge says, Darwin ‘taught us that we can understand life’s history in purely naturalistic terms, without recourse to the supernatural or divine.’ Julian Huxley said: ‘Darwinism removed the whole idea of God as a creator of organisms from the sphere of rational discussion.’ Jacob writes: ‘The idea that each species was separately designed by a Creator, was demolished by Darwin.’ And Simpson writes of the origin of the first organism: ‘There is, at any rate, no reason to postulate a miracle. Nor is it necessary to suppose that the origin of the new processes of reproduction and mutation was anything but materialistic.’”

‘But does not this leave life on earth without a Creator-​Designer?’ you ask. ‘None needed,’ evolutionists answer. ‘It is in the lap of chance. Blind chance is the designer. We call it Natural Selection.’

But the more we learn, the more design we see. The input of intelligence and wisdom is staggering. Is it not too much for blind, unthinking, brainless chance to handle? Consider just a few of the hundreds of devices in nature that reflect creative wisdom​—which human inventors have frequently copied.

[continued in next comment]

The aerodynamics of the wings of birds preceded by millenniums the inferior design found in the wings of planes. The chambered nautilus and the cuttlefish use flotation tanks to maintain buoyancy at whatever depth they swim, much more efficiently than modern submarines do. The octopus and the squid are masters of jet propulsion. Bats and dolphins are experts with sonar. Several reptiles and seabirds have their own built-​in “desalination plants” that enable them to drink seawater. Some microscopic bacteria have rotary motors that they can run forward and in reverse.

By ingeniously designed nests and by their use of water, termites air-​condition their homes. Insects, microscopic plants, fish, and trees use their own form of “antifreeze.” Small fractions of degrees of temperature change are sensed by the built-​in thermometers of some snakes, mosquitoes, mallee birds, and brush turkeys. Hornets, wasps, and yellow jackets make paper. Sponges, fungi, bacteria, glowworms, insects, fish​—all produce cold light, often in color. Many migrating birds apparently have in their heads compasses, maps, and biological clocks. Water beetles and spiders use scuba gear and diving bells.*​ (*: See chapter 12 of Life​—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation?)

To come up with all this design and instinctive wisdom demands an intelligence far beyond man’s. (Proverbs 30:24) But some of the most amazing examples are to be found in the world of the infinitely small​—where evolutionists hoped to see the simple beginning of life to start evolution on its upward climb to the obviously complex designs everywhere—​including us. Simple beginning? No such thing! Consider the complexities reflecting intelligent design in the tiniest cells.

The New Biology says on page 30: “The average cell carries out hundreds of chemical reactions every second and can reproduce itself every twenty minutes or so. Yet all this occurs on such a tiny scale: over 500 bacteria could fit into the area occupied by the period at the end of this sentence. [Biologist François] Jacob marvels at the minute laboratory of the bacterial cell, which ‘carries out some two thousand distinct reactions with incomparable skill, in the smallest space imaginable. These two thousand reactions diverge and converge at top speed, without ever becoming tangled.’”

The Center of Life​—A Natural History of the Cell, by L. L. Larison Cudmore, says on pages 13, 14: “Just a single cell could make weapons, catch food, digest it, get rid of wastes, move around, build houses, engage in sexual activity straightforward or bizarre. These creatures are still around. The protists​—organisms complete and entire, yet made up of just a single cell with many talents, but with no tissues, no organs, no hearts and no minds—​really have everything we’ve got.”

The Blind Watchmaker, by Richard Dawkins, on page 116 comments on the amount of information stored in a single cell: “There is enough storage capacity in the DNA of a single lily seed or a single salamander sperm to store the Encyclopædia Britannica 60 times over. Some species of the unjustly called ‘primitive’ amoebas have as much information in their DNA as 1,000 Encyclopædia Britannicas.”

Molecular biologist Michael Denton writes in Evolution: A Theory in Crisis, page 250: “Molecular biology has shown that even the simplest of all living systems on earth today, bacterial cells, are exceedingly complex objects. Although the tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small, weighing less than [one trillionth of a gram], each is in effect a veritable micro-​miniaturized factory containing thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery, made up altogether of one hundred thousand million atoms, far more complicated than any machine built by man and absolutely without parallel in the non-​living world.

“Molecular biology has also shown that the basic design of the cell system is essentially the same in all living systems on earth from bacteria to mammals. In all organisms the roles of DNA, mRNA and protein are identical. The meaning of the genetic code is also virtually identical in all cells. The size, structure and component design of the protein synthetic machinery is practically the same in all cells. In terms of their basic biochemical design, therefore no living system can be thought of as being primitive or ancestral with respect to any other system, nor is there the slightest empirical hint of an evolutionary sequence among all the incredibly diverse cells on earth.”

George Greenstein acknowledges all this intelligence involved in the earth’s structure. In his book The Symbiotic Universe, he speaks of the mysterious and incredible series of coincidences that are beyond explaining, coincidences without which life on earth would be impossible. The following statements, appearing throughout pages 21-8, reflect his agonizing over conditions that bespeak the need for an intelligent and purposeful God:

“I believe that we are faced with a mystery​—a great and profound mystery, and one of immense significance: the mystery of the habitability of the cosmos, of the fitness of the environment.” He sets out “to detail what can only seem to be an astonishing sequence of stupendous and unlikely accidents that paved the way for life’s emergence.* (*: Distances between stars; resonance of subatomic particles and atoms to form carbon; equal and opposite charges of electron and proton; unique and anomalous properties of water; frequencies of sunlight and absorption frequencies required for photosynthesis; the separation between sun and earth; three dimensions of space, no more, no less; and others.) There is a list of coincidences, all of them essential to our existence.” Yet “the list kept getting longer . . . So many coincidences! The more I read, the more I became convinced that such ‘coincidences’ could hardly have happened by chance.” A shattering fact for an evolutionist to face up to, as he next acknowledges:

“But as this conviction grew, something else grew as well. Even now it is difficult to express this ‘something’ in words. It was an intense revulsion, and at times it was almost physical in nature. I would positively squirm with discomfort. The very thought that the fitness of the cosmos for life might be a mystery requiring solution struck me as ludicrous, absurd. I found it difficult to entertain the notion without grimacing in disgust . . . Nor has this reaction faded over the years: I have had to struggle against it incessantly during the writing of this book. I am sure that the same reaction is at work within every other scientist, and that it is this which accounts for the widespread indifference accorded the idea at present. And more than that: I now believe that what appears as indifference in fact masks an intense antagonism.”

What antagonism? Antagonism to the thought that the explanation might lie in a purposeful Creator. As Greenstein expresses it: “As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency​—or, rather, Agency—​must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially drafted the cosmos for our benefit?” But Greenstein recovers from such heretical thinking and reasserts his orthodoxy to the evolutionary religion, reciting one of their creedal dogmas: “God is not an explanation.”

Astrophysicist Fred Hoyle in his book The Intelligent Universe, on page 9, talks about those, like Greenstein, who fear God’s entering the picture: “Orthodox scientists are more concerned with preventing a return to the religious excesses of the past than in looking forward to the truth [and this concern] has dominated scientific thought throughout the past century.” [continued in next comment]

Astrophysicist Fred Hoyle in his book The Intelligent Universe, on page 9, talks about those, like Greenstein, who fear God’s entering the picture: “Orthodox scientists are more concerned with preventing a return to the religious excesses of the past than in looking forward to the truth [and this concern] has dominated scientific thought throughout the past century.”

In his book he then discusses these same mysterious features that trouble Greenstein. “Such properties,” he says, “seem to run through the fabric of the natural world like a thread of happy accidents. But there are so many of these odd coincidences essential to life that some explanation seems required to account for them.” Both Hoyle and Greenstein say chance cannot explain these many “accidental coincidences.” Hoyle then says that to account for them, ‘the origin of the universe requires an intelligence,’ an ‘intelligence on a higher plane,’ ‘an intelligence that preceded us and that led to a deliberate act of creation of structures suitable for life.’

None of this is to be taken as saying that Hoyle is thinking of the God of the Bible, but he does see that behind the universe and the earth and life on it, there must be a tremendous supernatural intelligence. While he does say that “‘God’ is a forbidden word in science,” he allows that we might “define an intelligence superior to ourselves as a deity.” He speculates that “through our own minds’ pre-​programmed condition,” there might be “a connecting chain of intelligence, extending downward . . . to humans upon the Earth.”

“There are plenty of indications,” he says, “that this might be so. The restlessness within us is one such hint. It is as if we have an instinctive perception that there is something important for us to carry out. The restlessness comes because we have not been able to discover as yet exactly what its nature is.” Elsewhere he says: “The religious impulse appears to be unique to man . . . Stripped of the many fanciful adornments with which religion has become traditionally surrounded, does it not amount to an instruction within us that expressed rather simply might read as follows: You are derived from something ‘out there’ in the sky. Seek it, and you will find much more than you expect.”

Man is groping. What he gropes for without realizing it is the Biblical truth that we are created in the image and likeness of God, meaning we have a measure of such attributes of God as wisdom, love, power, justice, purpose, and other qualities that account for the great gulf between people and animals. Our minds are preprogrammed for such divine attributes and for the true worship of God. Until these several attributes are in proper balance and a connection is made with God through prayer and his true worship, the restlessness will remain. When these spiritual needs we were created with are fulfilled, the restlessness will give way to “the peace of God that excels all thought.”​—Philippians 4:7; Genesis 1:26-28.

Acts 17:27, 28 recommends this groping, namely, “for them to seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us. For by him we have life and move and exist.” It is by him, the Creator of the universe, including earth and us upon it, that we live and move and exist. Shedding the adornments and false doctrines of orthodox religions​—which religions have turned millions away from God, including many scientists—​and following the true worship of Jehovah God, we will gain life everlasting in a paradise earth, which was Jehovah’s purpose in creating the earth in the first place.​—Genesis 2:15; Isaiah 45:18; Luke 23:43; John 17:3.

It takes tremendous credulity to think that intelligence of this magnitude resides in blind, brainless chance. It is a faith comparable to that of the pagan religionists of the prophet Isaiah’s time: “But you men are those leaving Jehovah, those forgetting my holy mountain, those setting in order a table for the god of Good Luck and those filling up mixed wine for the god of Destiny.” (Isaiah 65:11) Evolutionists look to millions of “lucky” chances to produce man from rock, but they haven’t got off the ground to reach the first rung of their evolutionary ladder. Their “god of Good Luck” is a bruised reed.

Fred Hoyle feels an ominous foreboding in all of this: “Another point nagging me is a conviction that the window of opportunity for the human species may be very narrow in time. High technology is necessary to open the window, but high technology on its own, without establishing a relation between our species to the world outside the Earth, may well be a path to self-​destruction. If on occasions in this book my opposition to the Darwinian theory has seemed fierce, it is because of my feeling that a society oriented by that theory is very likely set upon a self-​destruct course.”

Alice, in the tale Through the Looking-​Glass, incredulous at the strange logic of the White Queen, could only laugh. “There’s no use trying,” she said. “One can’t believe impossible things.” The queen responded: “I dare say you haven’t had much practice. When I was your age I did it for half an hour a day. Why sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.”

Evolutionists are the White Queens of today. They have had infinite practice in believing impossible things.

originally posted by: whereislogic
None of this is to be taken as saying that Hoyle is thinking of the God of the Bible, ...

5 walls of text and in the end you shoot believers in the big 3 in the foot.

Evolutionists are the White Queens of today. They have had infinite practice in believing impossible things.

There is nothing more impossible than a god that can kill innocents and say he did it because he loved them.

Maybe you can find a loop hole but what would that make you?

Since we are quoting from fiction I will share a piece from a story I am reading. This part is from where a human is explaining religion to an alien species.

We listened, and I privately felt a sense of alarm mounting within me. The concept was very, very alien. Humans, it seemed, had for most of their sentient era preferred to invent explanations for the world around them rather than admit a lack of knowledge. They had invented a sentience that was capable of doing any logically consistent thing, capable of knowing anything. Rather than answer the mystery of where they had come from, they had historically preferred to tell stories and then convince themselves that the stories were true. If Jenkins was to be believed, then the line between fantasy and reality was, for many humans, invisible.

He told us of the myth he had grown up being told was real. How this great power—“God”—had made the universe in a handful of diurnals, and crafted the first humans from the dirt of their homeworld. They had disobeyed him, and been punished. As had their descendants, and their descendants, until apparently one tribe had tortured this being’s physical avatar to death—he gestured to the tattoo at this point, explaining that it depicted a crucifix, the very instrument of torture in question. This act somehow convinced this “God” thing to forgive them and be nice to humanity so long as they devoted considerable time and effort to telling it how great it was.

Vedreg had turned a grim shade of worried dark green by the time Jenkins finished telling the story. “So…this ‘God’ created humans, got angry at them, condemned them to be tortured forever and ever after death, and then had itself sacrificed to itself to save mankind from the very torture it was inflicting upon them?” he asked.

“Yes.”

My social implant tentatively suggested that Jenkins’ body language communicated tired endurance.

“And humans believe that this is the real way in which the history of your species unfolded?”

“About a third of us still do, yes.”

We were silent for some time. Vedreg slowly went bluer and bluer until suddenly he erupted. “Why!?” he demanded.

“I don’t know.” Jenkins responded, calmly.

“You don’t know? You’re wearing the symbol of this…this masochism on your arm and you don’t know why your people believe it?”

“I know why I believed it,” Jenkins said. “I didn’t know any better.”

If you are interested in the story here is the link to Deathworld

a reply to: whereislogic

Put a cork in it. Nobody is reading posts that long winded.

It's funny how you ignore all the religious hoaxes out there and focus on a few dishonest fake scientists who made a living deceiving people for money and fame. Too bad that you are completely incapable of refuting a single scientific research paper or even make an convincing argument. If evolution was held together by only hoaxes, it would be debunked by now. But there are hundreds of thousands of research papers containing evidence and experiments. A few crooks in the past doesn't change that. Now if we were to look at RELIGIOUS crooks and hoaxes, they are all over the place our prisons are full of them. Kent Hovind was even put in jail for fraud a while back.

a reply to: Barcs

I always thought Jesus had to condone his tyrannical father. Maybe the tyranny ended with Jesus.. But then again, there is still Revelation, which is supposed to be more death and destruction for us heathens. Also, there are some interpretations that Jesus existed in Heaven before his human manifestation in Mary.

If they purposefully tried to kill people, they weren't actually Atheist. /s

originally posted by: cooperton
Nope. Old Testament God attributed to about 2,000,000 deaths. Mao, an atheist, killed about 78,000,000. Stalin, an atheist, killed about 23,000,000.

Atheism wins the kill count. OT God doesn't even get a bronze medal.

"The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia."
—Revelation 14:18-20

Let's assume that 1600 stadia (320 kilometres/320,000metres) is the diameter of the lake of blood. Therefore the radius is 800 stadia or 160km. Let's also assume assume that a horse's bridle is approximately 1.5 metres from the ground, giving us its depth.

We can then calculate the volume of blood using the formula: V = ∏r2.. Using biblical value of ∏ = 3 we get the formula:

3 × 160,000 × 160,000 × 1.5 = 115200000000 cubic metres of blood.

1 cubic metre = 1000 litres

25600000000 × 1000 = 115200000000000

If we divide this number by the average amount of blood in a human body, 5.5 litres:
115,200,000,000,000 ∕ 5.5 = 20,945,454,545,500

So we find that according to scripture, at a bare minimum according to one interpretation, God will kill approximately 20,945,454,545,500 people. That's in the trillions.

However, since it says flows and not pools, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that a river was formed. Assuming they measured the the blood-flow using actual horses, and a horse is 1 metre across.

320,000 x 1 x 1.5 = 480,000 cubic metres of blood.

480,000 x 1000 = 480,000,000

480,000,000 / 5.5 = 87,272,727

So, in another interpretation, God will kill a minimum of 87,272,727 to produce a horse bridle high blood-flow.

Examples of God Killing People

originally posted by: cooperton
My God is altruism, love, peace, and so on. Justice is required of people's free will.

Your God is pretty big on rape, war crimes, slavery, murder/capital punishment, human sacrifice, manipulating free will, and lying.

My examples if you're interested.

originally posted by: cooperton
Jesus is my God. He didn't kill anyone

Wouldn't Jesus be complicate or approving of his Father's actions?

a reply to: cooperton

It was unanimous among cultures describing the global flood that it occurred due to the immense depravity of the humans on earth.

According to the morals and standards that this omniscient, omnipotent being imposed upon its 'creations'?

Far from the caring and understanding approach one would expect from an all powerful, all seeing, all knowing entity.

And if this God is so all powerful why was his creation so bad and corrupt and why didn't he foresee or know that?

It was apparently a necessary purge that saved the planet.

How did it save the planet?

Evil, depravity and corruption still exists....on a monumental scale.

Way different than killing humans for simply believing in God.

Your God apparently killed millions, possibly more for NOT believing in God and his morals?

Absolute bollocks if you ask me.

Some massive flood may have occurred years ago and Sodom and Gomorrah may have been wiped out somehow at some point in human history but your explanation/theory is severely lacking in ANY evidence and relies 100% on a heavily edited and selective man made book written with the sole purpose of imposing a set of morals and beliefs in order to control and manipulate the masses.

As for evolution; current theory may not be absolutely correct, but its by far the best explanation we have based on the information available to us at present.

Anything else is either pure speculation or blind faith.

a reply to: cooperton

atheism wasnt the reason they killed people though ,its because they were #s !

im an atheist and Ive never hurt a single person in my life or ever thought about mass genocide
I mean could it be that the reason they were evil #s because they were probably sociopaths
with psychopathic tendencies ?

well actually I wouldnt consider myself an atheist , more of an anti-theist since organised religion is a load of bull#

I would consider myself spiritual in a sense that I dont adhere to any organised understanding of our existence

originally posted by: Barcs
You are incapable of leaving people with different beliefs alone

People can believe what they want. But when you say evolution is fact is when I feel obliged to intervene.

And you go spewing more lies. Evolutionary knowledge is absolutely relevant in vaccines and flu shots.

No it's not. Vaccine science relies on the empirical observations in immunology. The vaccine triggers the immune system to make a pre-emptive antibody that will destroy the real virus if it ever comes in contact with the person.

I get that you are probably an ignorant anti vaxxer as well, but pretending like bacteria and viruses can't evolve is laughable.

I say this matter-of-factly that you don't have much or any training in scientific fields so I hope you can understand what I am about to say and respond with relevant empirical data. Seriously, if you are just going to baselessly call me a liar or insult me in some way, just save your time and don't respond. But if you want to actually discuss science I am all ears.

Bacteria and viruses are not evolving. They are adapting with a relatively new mechanism known as epigenetics. These epigenetic alterations are inheritable but they cannot go outside a particular bounds because it is simply using the pre-existent genome and turning certain genes up or down depending on the stress that is being introduced.

For example, in this study, they found that antibiotic resistance was due to the increased genetic expression of a certain detoxification pump. When the bacterial strain was introduced to the antibiotic, it turned this gene up to increase detoxification and therefore allowed it to survive in incrementally higher antibiotic concentrations. Once the antibiotic is removed, the expression of this detox pump resumes normalcy.


Evolution theory on the other hand involves the actual permanent changing of genetic makeup through random mutations that is supposed to be responsible for the diversity of life on earth. The lingering dogma of evolutionary theory is not up to date with the evidence that shows that this is simply not how genetics works. It's an out-dated theory. Take for example the titin protein. It has over 100,000 base pairs for its coding sequence. How could random mutation suffice to make that many successful mutations? Even if such a miracle did occur, it would require both actin and myosin to also be made synchronously (also very large protein sequences) and the organism would have to assimilate the necessary co-factors that would organize all these components into what is known as the muscle unit:



Random mutations creating that^ would be similar to a hydraulic self-regenerative computerized pump being formed by random chance. Absolutely impossible. You can believe whatever you want, but know that it is not based in empirical scientific possibility.

The flu shot is different every single year because of that.

antigenic drift is the same as allele drift, except specifically for the mentioning of viral antigen proteins. Antigenic drift means that certain alleles (which are variants of particular genes) rise and fall in the expression of a population. The vaccine manufacturers try to determine which alleles will need to be most defended against each season. But again, Alleles are simple variants of genes. The evolutionists want to assume that they came to be through random mutations, but this biology is as simple as Mendelian genetics when he first discovered alleles and does not require evolution for its explanation.

originally posted by: cooperton
People can believe what they want. But when you say evolution is fact is when I feel obliged to intervene.

Well it is a fact and the evidence proves it. It's not my problem you don't get it and dishonestly ignore/reject all of the research of scientists for the last hundred years while blindly taking the word of ancient goat herders as literal absolute word of god and put it in higher regard than something testable. You only feel obliged to intervene because of your indoctrinated emotional psychological dependency on your fantasy religious beliefs. It triggers you emotionally, so you ignore the hard facts and just rant irrationally about it.

No it's not. Vaccine science relies on the empirical observations in immunology. The vaccine triggers the immune system to make a pre-emptive antibody that will destroy the real virus if it ever comes in contact with the person.

LOL! Evolution is a big part of that and I already clearly explained why. As usual you finger wave and poopoo it away with no substance, no evidence, and not a single response to any point I made. You are completely clueless.

I say this matter-of-factly that you don't have much or any training in scientific fields so I hope you can understand what I am about to say and respond with relevant empirical data. Seriously, if you are just going to baselessly call me a liar or insult me in some way, just save your time and don't respond. But if you want to actually discuss science I am all ears.

Nothing I said was baseless. Evolutionary knowledge is applied in flu shots and that's hard fact. Your ignorant denial is irrelevant.

www.livescience.com...

Bacteria and viruses are not evolving. They are adapting with a relatively new mechanism known as epigenetics.

LOL! NO! Epigentics isn't new and it doesn't account for most evolutionary changes. STOP LYING. Epigentics is not an alternative to evolution, it's part of it, you dishonest idiot.

Random mutations creating that^ would be similar to a hydraulic self-regenerative computerized pump being formed by random chance. Absolutely impossible.

Another blatantly false statement.

Your understanding of genetics and modern medicine is abysmal, bro. You sound like a complete bot unable to think about anything for yourself, you just puke up what preachers tell you and think you made a point.

originally posted by: Barcs
Epigentics is not an alternative to evolution, it's part of it, you dishonest idiot.

Epigenetics is not evolution. Evolution involves hard-wired genetic changes, whereas epigenetics increases or decreases the expression of genes. Epigenetics is not a part of evolution. No aspect of biology relies on the validity of evolutionary theory.

As I showed before, which you claim I was a liar without explaining why, antibiotic resistance can be explained by epigenetic inheritance and mendelian inheritance. No evolution required.

poopoo it away with no substance, no evidence, and not a single response to any point I made

No substance? I provided a quick synopsis of antigenic drift and Mendelian genetics in vaccine protocol. I discussed the requirements to form super large proteins and why random mutations would not be sufficient, I explained the source of antibiotic resistance regarding epigenetic mechanisms that use the increase of detox pumps to handle higher degrees of antibiotics. I used a peer-review source to reinforce what I was saying. You didn't respond logically to any of it. As always, you just attack me personally, call me a liar, and ignore the straightforward science that I am discussing.

Antibiotic resistance is explained by Mendelian genetic drift and epigenetic inheritance. No evolution is required for its explanation. Evolutionary theory has no relevance in medical science. It is an out-dated theory that will die out once the bias dissipates.

The life cycle of a human from a single cell to fully grown adult. is that creation or evolution? if one can answer that question truthfully then there is no reason to debate the authenticity of the science of evolution.

originally posted by: cooperton
Antibiotic resistance is explained by Mendelian genetic drift and epigenetic inheritance. No evolution is required for its explanation. Evolutionary theory has no relevance in medical science. It is an out-dated theory that will die out once the bias dissipates.

LOL!!! This is some next level ignorance, dude. You just repeat your original lie that was literally just proved wrong by the article I posted. You don't have a clue about genetics or epigenetics.

You seriously can't make this stuff up, people...

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Jesus committed suicide because he already knew gods plan as it was his plan anyway as god and jesus are the same right
so he committed a sin to absolve us of our sins , #in hypocrite

?

WTF is going there ?

hasnt anyone actually pointed out all the plot holes in the bible

a reply to: cooperton

Viral evolution

So shall we just ignore the evolution of viruses in human populations ?

as it has no "significance" according to you in medical science

what could we stand to lose if we ignore the evolution of viral strains ?

OH I dunno maybe just the entire population of humans on earth if we have another outbreak of say an evolved "Spannish flu"


WHat about viruses that werent sexually transmitted that have become sexually transmitted

The evolution of infectious agents in relation to sex in animals and humans: brief discussions of some individual organisms

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Jesus committed suicide because he already knew gods plan as it was his plan anyway as god and jesus are the same right
so he committed a sin to absolve us of our sins , #in hypocrite

?

WTF is going there ?

hasnt anyone actually pointed out all the plot holes in the bible

sounds like paul to me