Evolution backed up by Hoaxes and Desperate Lies

originally posted by: Starbucks
a reply to: peter vlar

did you just shoot your self in the leg?

because your diagram shows the back to africa migration happened 3000 BC

Howdy,

Sorry, I know I'm not Peter, but I think I can answer this one for him and perhaps save him some trouble.

It certainly doesn't say 3000 BC.

Sincere regards,
Hydeman

originally posted by: hydeman11

originally posted by: Starbucks

a reply to: peter vlar



did you just shoot your self in the leg?



because your diagram shows the back to africa migration happened 3000 BC

Howdy,



Sorry, I know I'm not Peter, but I think I can answer this one for him and perhaps save him some trouble.

It certainly doesn't say 3000 BC.



Sincere regards,

Hydeman

even better 3000 ya just 3 thousand years ago !

a reply to: Starbucks

Howdy,

Is 3000 years ago a problem? Does it conflict with the DNA evidence or something like that? Do you have some scientifically valid reasoning for this being a problem, because I'd love to see it if you do. Unlike others who have kindly responded to you in this thread, I'm not an expert in the field and I have no personal stake in the proposed migratory history of human kind. If you have evidence that supports your hypothetical problem, then please share it and educate me. I love to learn.

Sincere regards,
Hydeman

are you claiming that this back migration to africa 3000 Years ago, was the cause of Neanderthals dna dispersals in all african peoples (men and women) or do we have to wait for another?

originally posted by: Starbucks
are you claiming that this back migration to africa 3000 Years ago, was the cause of Neanderthals dna dispersals in all african peoples (men and women) or do we have to wait for another?

Howdy,

If you are responding to me, you misunderstand. I make no claims. I am no expert. I am asking you to provide evidence for what you believe. I merely wish to make an informed decision, and make no claims on the subject. (Well, I did make the claim that you misread Peter's infographic, which you clearly did).

Is the mechanism which you have proposed here (in the quote) not a possibility?

Sincere regards,
Hydeman

No it is not a possibility
because the back to africa migration is women from india who became the wives of the ethiopians.

in 3000 years either all african men have tour africa and make pilgimmage to ethiopia, impregnate the ethiopian women and take the males only children back to their jungles.
or
the ethiopian women have to tour africa get impregnated by african men give the male offspring to the african men in their villages and keep their daughters with them and bring them back to ethiopia.

which one of these two mechanisms, the evolutionists believe happened in the last 3000 years?

a reply to: Starbucks

Howdy,

So you are claiming that women from what we would call the region of India became the wives of what we would call Ethiopians? Do you have evidence to support this claim? I really am clueless on these issues, and I would greatly appreciate the help.

You are also presenting two options that apparently explain some phenomenon. I am unaware of the phenomenon you are describing, and I must ask for clarification. That said, are those two options really the only two possibilities that would produce observed effects? I'm not a fan of presented dichotomies, as dichotomies are more often than not false and fallacious. Why are these two events the only possible explanations? Couldn't an individual from a population move to different genetically isolated population, spreading the genetic information of some distant ancestor? Why do the entire gender groups need to migrate to accomplish the observed genetic effect?

Thank you,
Hydeman

yes Maternal Haplogroup M (women from india) through Swahili trade came to ethiopia.

the evolutionists and Peter claim Neanderthal DNA is found in all humans because of intermixing) 3-4 percent of Europpean dna is of neanderthal, 2.5 percent of Chinese is from Neanderthals, 1 percent of african dna, and only .5 percent of khoisan africans have neanderthal dna.

they claim this is proof that neanderthal lived with homosapiens and have children.

and then the Neanderthals died, even the mix children of neanderthal ancestry signature dna (y chromosome and Maternal dna) also died out somehow even though nobody could possibly know who got homosapiens signature and who got neanderthal signature.


Enen though Europpean signature started 10 000 years ago, but somehow they intermarried with neanderthals who died 20 000 years ago.
and also Peter explain how the Neanderthal DNA got to all africans (male and females) who never left africa ( after they branched from the Y chromosomal Adam who all humans come from )
he explained it by back migration of homosapiens who ot the neanderthal dna back to africa and spread it symmetrically at 1% among all africans (but less among khoisan( a half million people) who hold the signature haplogroup A the most ancient branch from Y chromosomal Adam.

To make explanation of how evolutionists want things to have happened to not disprove evolution:

Let us say hypothetically that 20 000 years ago, 2 million Neanderthal men were married to 2 million Homosapien women, and each pair had one son and one dayghter, and then all the Neanderthal men died.
then we have 4 million children 2 million sons and 2 million daughters.

lets concentrate on one family and that all families had the same experience.
so a neanderthal man have one son and one daughter.

the son gets half (50%) of his Autosomal DNA from his father and the other half (50%) from his mother ( autosomal DNA is the chromosomes in the Nucleus minus the Y chromosome)

he also gets his father Y chromosome complete, and gets his mother Maternal DNA complete (100%). (maternal DNA is found all over the cell's plasma)

the daughter of the Neanderthal man, gets also half of her Autosomal DNA from her father and the other half from her mother,
she gets the Maternal DNA without change from her mother.

Now the son becomes a man and marries a Homosapien woman ( all Neanderthal women died hypothetically).
the same mechanism is repeated again so his son will have 50% of his autosomal DNA from his father (or 25% from his Neanderthal father) and also will get the same Y chromosome from his father (the same Y chromosome of the Neanderthal grandfather).
so this son (the grandson of the the Neanderthal man ) have 75% of his autosomal dna from homosapiens and 25% from Neanderthals( his Neanderthal grandfather).
the next generation of males will have the same Y chromosome of the Neanderthal man and 12.5% of his autosomal dna from the great grandfather Neanderthal).

as for the daughter she will get 12.5% neanderthal autosomal dna and 88% of her autosomal dna from homosapiens.

and so after many generations after the die out of all neanderthals males and females, only 1 perthousand of their autosomal dna is neanderthal.
after another 20 generations only 1 per million of their dna neanderthal and after 1000 generation they have 1 per trillion of their dna neanderthal.
1000 generations, a generation is 20 years is 20 000 years. so if the Neanderthals died out 20000 years ago opnly one trillionth of their dna will be found in homosapien!!!

also the sons of sons of sons of the neanderthal will still have the Y chromosome ( no haplogroups of Homosapiens is found in their Y chromosomes because the current homosapien males are all descendents of Y chromosomal Adam and all his branches have mutations specific to his branches called Y haplogroups).

However No haplogroup of Neanderthals are found in current humans.


Also Evolutionists claim we still have 3% of Autosomal or mitochondrial dna from the neanderthals???!!! even though after 20 000 years nothing could be left from such intermarriage.

So the question arise how did the male descendents of neanderthals in homosapien tribes died even they after many generations look very much like homosapiens.

May be the angel of Moses passed through the houses of the homosapiens and killed all males who have the Neanderthal chromosomes??

the evolutionists story become more exciting and biblical!
to be continued in the next episode when we explain how Ethiopian wives toured all the jungles of africa counterclock wide in an epic journy to have sons from every african male and leave him with his father, and hold her daughters from her african males and come back to ethiopia in an epic journey unmatched by the Godzilla worriors.

Neanderthal DNA IS NOT in ALL humans. If you had your troll conversation in one thread instead of 7 you might realize this by now.

originally posted by: Barcs
Neanderthal DNA IS NOT in ALL humans. If you had your troll conversation in one thread instead of 7 you might realize this by now.

He doesn't. He has his last-ditch creationist talking points, many of which he doesn't understand, and he's sticking to them. Sad really. This is why I've given up talking to him. Threads like this are all the same. Someone states something moronic, based on a faulty or even biased set of what they think are facts. Other people patiently correct them by stating scientific facts, backed with cites. A few pages later a different creationist arrives, doesn't read the previous pages and then tries to restart the thread by pretending that none of the previous evidence has been stated and there's still a point to the thread. Mix and repeat again and again and again...

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Why don't you address his points and provide scientific evidence that answers his questions and refutes his claims? I don't agree with anything he has to say either, but instead of personally attacking him, address his points.

originally posted by: kayej1188
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Why don't you address his points and provide scientific evidence that answers his questions and refutes his claims? I don't agree with anything he has to say either, but instead of personally attacking him, address his points.

Because all of this has been gone over, again and again, earlier in this thread. His points haven't just been refuted they've been destroyed again and again. Why should I repeat what I've said before, why should others do the same thing? It's a standard creationist ploy - ask for proof, fail to understand that proof when it is given and then ask for it again on another thread or indeed later on in the same thread. It's trolling, pure and simple. If they reject evolution because their church rejects it then fair enough, it's a free planet. But when they come onto threads like this and raise the same old tired creationist points because they cannot - or perhaps more pertinently will not - understand the scientific proof for evolution then there comes a point where I have to take a stand.

originally posted by: kayej1188
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Why don't you address his points and provide scientific evidence that answers his questions and refutes his claims? I don't agree with anything he has to say either, but instead of personally attacking him, address his points.

Maybe because all of the points the poster continues to repeatedly make HAVE been answered. They aren't looking for answers, this is a classic Gish Gallop run around. Sometimes you just have to call the trolls out from under the bridge for what they are and stop feeding into the shark like frenzy the have worked themselves into. You can only engage in trying to turn somethimg into a learning excercise for so long before you tire of running in circles and the same exact claims and questions have been repeated in multiple threads, and refuted with multiple citations yet the poster in question has not issued a single citation to support their errant claims let alone looked at the information provided to them while dismissing them out of hand.

www.scotlandsdna.com...

originally posted by: Starbucks
To make explanation of how evolutionists want things to have happened to not disprove evolution:

Let us say hypothetically that 20 000 years ago, 2 million Neanderthal men were married to 2 million Homosapien women, and each pair had one son and one dayghter, and then all the Neanderthal men died.
then we have 4 million children 2 million sons and 2 million daughters.

lets concentrate on one family and that all families had the same experience.
so a neanderthal man have one son and one daughter.

the son gets half (50%) of his Autosomal DNA from his father and the other half (50%) from his mother ( autosomal DNA is the chromosomes in the Nucleus minus the Y chromosome)

he also gets his father Y chromosome complete, and gets his mother Maternal DNA complete (100%). (maternal DNA is found all over the cell's plasma)

the daughter of the Neanderthal man, gets also half of her Autosomal DNA from her father and the other half from her mother,
she gets the Maternal DNA without change from her mother.

Now the son becomes a man and marries a Homosapien woman ( all Neanderthal women died hypothetically).
the same mechanism is repeated again so his son will have 50% of his autosomal DNA from his father (or 25% from his Neanderthal father) and also will get the same Y chromosome from his father (the same Y chromosome of the Neanderthal grandfather).
so this son (the grandson of the the Neanderthal man ) have 75% of his autosomal dna from homosapiens and 25% from Neanderthals( his Neanderthal grandfather).
the next generation of males will have the same Y chromosome of the Neanderthal man and 12.5% of his autosomal dna from the great grandfather Neanderthal).

as for the daughter she will get 12.5% neanderthal autosomal dna and 88% of her autosomal dna from homosapiens.

and so after many generations after the die out of all neanderthals males and females, only 1 perthousand of their autosomal dna is neanderthal.
after another 20 generations only 1 per million of their dna neanderthal and after 1000 generation they have 1 per trillion of their dna neanderthal.
1000 generations, a generation is 20 years is 20 000 years. so if the Neanderthals died out 20000 years ago opnly one trillionth of their dna will be found in homosapien!!!

also the sons of sons of sons of the neanderthal will still have the Y chromosome ( no haplogroups of Homosapiens is found in their Y chromosomes because the current homosapien males are all descendents of Y chromosomal Adam and all his branches have mutations specific to his branches called Y haplogroups).

However No haplogroup of Neanderthals are found in current humans.


Also Evolutionists claim we still have 3% of Autosomal or mitochondrial dna from the neanderthals???!!! even though after 20 000 years nothing could be left from such intermarriage.

So the question arise how did the male descendents of neanderthals in homosapien tribes died even they after many generations look very much like homosapiens.

May be the angel of Moses passed through the houses of the homosapiens and killed all males who have the Neanderthal chromosomes??

the evolutionists story become more exciting and biblical!
to be continued in the next episode when we explain how Ethiopian wives toured all the jungles of africa counterclock wide in an epic journy to have sons from every african male and leave him with his father, and hold her daughters from her african males and come back to ethiopia in an epic journey unmatched by the Godzilla worriors.

You need to brush up on your genetics. Read this re autosomal DNA and inheritance:

www.scotlandsdna.com...

Yes I suppose that's a good point. I haven't read through all 70 pages so I was unaware how far back Starbucks antics have gone. It's really quite frustrating. The most annoying thing is that Starbucks truly has a very misguided notion of how genetics works, and that is largely contributing to his lack of understanding. The questions he raises prove this, and are often incoherent and barely make sense. I suggest that from now on, unless Starbucks raises a point which has not been thoroughly addressed by numerous people, we just ignore him. There is nothing that we can possibly say that we haven't said already, to try and provide him with a fundamental understanding of how genetics works and how it relates to evolution.

originally posted by: helldiver
www.scotlandsdna.com...

originally posted by: Starbucks
To make explanation of how evolutionists want things to have happened to not disprove evolution:

Let us say hypothetically that 20 000 years ago, 2 million Neanderthal men were married to 2 million Homosapien women, and each pair had one son and one dayghter, and then all the Neanderthal men died.
then we have 4 million children 2 million sons and 2 million daughters.

lets concentrate on one family and that all families had the same experience.
so a neanderthal man have one son and one daughter.

the son gets half (50%) of his Autosomal DNA from his father and the other half (50%) from his mother ( autosomal DNA is the chromosomes in the Nucleus minus the Y chromosome)

he also gets his father Y chromosome complete, and gets his mother Maternal DNA complete (100%). (maternal DNA is found all over the cell's plasma)

the daughter of the Neanderthal man, gets also half of her Autosomal DNA from her father and the other half from her mother,
she gets the Maternal DNA without change from her mother.

Now the son becomes a man and marries a Homosapien woman ( all Neanderthal women died hypothetically).
the same mechanism is repeated again so his son will have 50% of his autosomal DNA from his father (or 25% from his Neanderthal father) and also will get the same Y chromosome from his father (the same Y chromosome of the Neanderthal grandfather).
so this son (the grandson of the the Neanderthal man ) have 75% of his autosomal dna from homosapiens and 25% from Neanderthals( his Neanderthal grandfather).
the next generation of males will have the same Y chromosome of the Neanderthal man and 12.5% of his autosomal dna from the great grandfather Neanderthal).

as for the daughter she will get 12.5% neanderthal autosomal dna and 88% of her autosomal dna from homosapiens.

and so after many generations after the die out of all neanderthals males and females, only 1 perthousand of their autosomal dna is neanderthal.
after another 20 generations only 1 per million of their dna neanderthal and after 1000 generation they have 1 per trillion of their dna neanderthal.
1000 generations, a generation is 20 years is 20 000 years. so if the Neanderthals died out 20000 years ago opnly one trillionth of their dna will be found in homosapien!!!

also the sons of sons of sons of the neanderthal will still have the Y chromosome ( no haplogroups of Homosapiens is found in their Y chromosomes because the current homosapien males are all descendents of Y chromosomal Adam and all his branches have mutations specific to his branches called Y haplogroups).

However No haplogroup of Neanderthals are found in current humans.


Also Evolutionists claim we still have 3% of Autosomal or mitochondrial dna from the neanderthals???!!! even though after 20 000 years nothing could be left from such intermarriage.

So the question arise how did the male descendents of neanderthals in homosapien tribes died even they after many generations look very much like homosapiens.

May be the angel of Moses passed through the houses of the homosapiens and killed all males who have the Neanderthal chromosomes??

the evolutionists story become more exciting and biblical!
to be continued in the next episode when we explain how Ethiopian wives toured all the jungles of africa counterclock wide in an epic journy to have sons from every african male and leave him with his father, and hold her daughters from her african males and come back to ethiopia in an epic journey unmatched by the Godzilla worriors.

You need to brush up on your genetics. Read this re autosomal DNA and inheritance:

www.scotlandsdna.com...

your citation support that a person gets 50% of autosomal dna from each parent , sometime could go to 39 or 60% randomly !
but that does not change the fact that after 1000 generation nothing will be left from supposed neanderthal dna who died out 20 ooo years ago.
also how come all thier sons becoming part of homosapien tribes died too (there should be at least 2% of current males now who hdon't have any of the thousands of confirmed mutations in their Y chromosome since Y chromosomal Adam.

Evolutionists have bogus claim..
they claimed the neanderthals intermarried with homosapiens and then even if they suffered genocide a 2% of their Y chromosome should still be present.

a reply to: Starbucks

For your consideration, here's a piece from the BBC news website this morning.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Got to love the OP title.


Well religious nutters make up fanciful stories to explain all sorts of things all the time. So lets call it even ?

originally posted by: Barcs
Neanderthal DNA IS NOT in ALL humans. If you had your troll conversation in one thread instead of 7 you might realize this by now.

I had a feeling it was zero percent in sub-Saharan Africans, but could not remember the specifics in enough detail to link to a study, and is why I said the distribution was not uniform and was by far the lowest in that subgroup (in one of the other many threads where Starbucks vomited out his argument).