Evolution backed up by Hoaxes and Desperate Lies

also two more questions to support creation by elimination.

if evolution was wrong about one species then it is wrong, then how about failing in human species.

two questions can not be answered by evolutionists

the first, how did Neanderthal DNA made it to all humans, even though neanderthal did not make it to africa and most africans did not ever leave africa? unless the neanderthal was one of the humans descended from the Mosts Recent Common ancester MRCA of current humans Y chromosomal Adam who lived in recent history and never left africa untill recently (20 to 4 K years ago ) way after Neanderthal demise.

the second, how come humans (erectus, dionisians, neanderthals and homosapiens) branched from apes 7 million years ago, and spread all over the world and yet they all died out minus a small clan in Africa?
even man is more advanced than other animals to survive nature?
and it just fits the creation story of religions the MRCA is so recent and the Great Leap Forward also fits the time of MRCA, unless the creation story is miraculously true!

a reply to: Starbucks

> how did Neanderthal DNA made it to all humans, even though neanderthal did not make it to africa and most africans did not ever leave africa?

The distribution of neanderthal dna in modern humans is not uniform. It is by far the lowest in Sub-Saharan Africans compared to all other groups, and the spread of neanderthal genes throughout modern humans is generally attributed to interbreeding with Eurasian populations, not with neanderthals themselves.

> how come humans (erectus, dionisians, neanderthals and homosapiens) branched from apes 7 million years ago, and spread all over the world and yet they all died out minus a small clan in Africa?

Not sure what you mean? If you mean all apes died out except for a small clan in africa - what about the gibbon and orang utans which are extant in Asia?

Re-reading your post now, and I guess you are talking about the now extinct hominids.

The thing is - we don't have all the answers. And while we may find out enough to be able to suspect this, that or the other, we will likely never know the answers with 100% accuracy.

Having said that, there are likely many reasons which contributed to their demise, not the least of which would have been competition with modern humans. It's also probably true to say that some of these ancestors were not so much wiped out as 'absorbed' by us, since we do exhibit some of their DNA in our modern genome.

The fact that we do not know for sure is not a default win for the creationist position. It's simply yet another argument from ignorance.

originally posted by: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing

Having said that, there are likely many reasons which contributed to their demise, not the least of which would have been competition with modern humans. It's also probably true to say that some of these ancestors were not so much wiped out as 'absorbed' by us, since we do exhibit some of their DNA in our modern genome.

The fact that we do not know for sure is not a default win for the creationist position. It's simply yet another argument from ignorance.

I would have to agree with you regarding the absorption of earlier hominid populations into that of HSS. while as a whole, the amount of Neanderthal DNA in EurAsian populations is pretty small, 2-4% depending on geographical locale etc... an interesting thing to note is that certain parts of our genome have a very high percentage of Neanderthal genetics. The genes that code for hair type,hair color and skin pigmentation for example have approximately 70% HNS genes whereas other aspects of our code have no HNS influence on them whatsoever. The fact that we were able to breed successfully with HNS and Denisovan is very good evidence that we all have our roots in earlier hominid lines like Erectus or Heidelburgensis and that we are all just one big sub species sharing very close genetic ties. Another anecdote that was a topic of research I did when I was doing my undergrad work was that in the Levantine valley that runs from Northern Israel up into central Lebanon, there are very clear indications that HSS and HNS not only shared the same geographic niche, but lived in the same communities. A really interesting part of that is that they buried their dead together in the same "cemeteries". For that to occur, it would indicate, in my opinion, that the community ties were just the beginning for these two different people and that they very likely shared work and resources as well as familial bonds close enough that they buried their dead together.

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing

Having said that, there are likely many reasons which contributed to their demise, not the least of which would have been competition with modern humans. It's also probably true to say that some of these ancestors were not so much wiped out as 'absorbed' by us, since we do exhibit some of their DNA in our modern genome.

The fact that we do not know for sure is not a default win for the creationist position. It's simply yet another argument from ignorance.

I would have to agree with you regarding the absorption of earlier hominid populations into that of HSS. while as a whole, the amount of Neanderthal DNA in EurAsian populations is pretty small, 2-4% depending on geographical locale etc... an interesting thing to note is that certain parts of our genome have a very high percentage of Neanderthal genetics. The genes that code for hair type,hair color and skin pigmentation for example have approximately 70% HNS genes whereas other aspects of our code have no HNS influence on them whatsoever. The fact that we were able to breed successfully with HNS and Denisovan is very good evidence that we all have our roots in earlier hominid lines like Erectus or Heidelburgensis and that we are all just one big sub species sharing very close genetic ties. Another anecdote that was a topic of research I did when I was doing my undergrad work was that in the Levantine valley that runs from Northern Israel up into central Lebanon, there are very clear indications that HSS and HNS not only shared the same geographic niche, but lived in the same communities. A really interesting part of that is that they buried their dead together in the same "cemeteries". For that to occur, it would indicate, in my opinion, that the community ties were just the beginning for these two different people and that they very likely shared work and resources as well as familial bonds close enough that they buried their dead together.

obviously you dont understand genetics. HSS can not absorb HNS. The paternal and Maternal lineage can not be absorbed other wise they will stay among current humans. Current humans lineages all go back to that one man (Y chromosomal Adam the MRCA of all curent humans) who lived 20k to 200k years ago.


But since we are at it can you explain to me how billions of early humans (erectus, neanderthals, and all the other names) lived seven million years making 10s of billions of skeletons, died out by the time of the Ancestral Man of Current humans (20-200k years go) leaving only few thousand homosapiens in africa whom only one man of them have sons now. and when the last sons of those homosapiens tribe died out without having sons (give me a guess)

originally posted by: Starbucks


obviously you dont understand genetics. HSS can not absorb HNS. The paternal and Maternal lineage can not be absorbed other wise they will stay among current humans. Current humans lineages all go back to that one man (Y chromosomal Adam the MRCA of all curent humans) who lived 20k to 200k years ago.

I think you've got that completely backwards, which based on your posts in the other threads is no surprise at all. It's is all but foregone conclusion that at least part of the HNS who survived the initial contact with emigrating African Archaic Homo Sapiens were absorbed into our culture and genetic lineage through mating with us. You can keep harping on your hypothesis that all of humanity descended from one single male between 20 and 200.000 BPE but you still haven't supported it with a citation in any of the three threads that you are pedaling your wares in.ill repeat, for posterities sake, what I have said in the other threads... Support it and prove it or admit its simply your opinion or are making it up. Ill entertain your other queries once you supply citations for this claim.

But since we are at it can you explain to me how billions of early humans (erectus, neanderthals, and all the other names) lived seven million years making 10s of billions of skeletons, died out by the time of the Ancestral Man of Current humans (20-200k years go) leaving only few thousand homosapiens in africa whom only one man of them have sons now. and when the last sons of those homosapiens tribe died out without having sons (give me a guess).

I can explain it, but I'm not going to be your research assistant today. Support your other claims that you have been repeatedly asked to provide citations for and then we can have a conversation about what you don't understand about the rest. I'm happy to share my knowledge and two decades of extensive research with anyone who actually wAnts to learn but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Prese do prove me wrong though.

As if christianity requires outside help to be undermined.

a reply to: Starbucks

You need to be more clear in your arguments. It's very very difficult to understand what it is exactly that you're saying. I will address your first point however as best as I can. You seem to suggest that Homo Sapiens cannot have absorbed Neanderthal DNA because it would have stayed with current humans--at least I THINK this is what you're saying. However, current non-african humans share 1-4% of their DNA with the Neanderthals, which is highly suggestive of interbreeding, or "absorption" of their genetics. Am I addressing your point correctly?

a reply to: peter vlar

Didn't studies of the genetic variance of homo sapiens show that our numbers never dropped below 20,000 individuals during our entire natural history?

It is still happening, look at OOA and how that wildcard theory was made a whole load of 'something' (MSM included) out of nothing. It will probably be the new 'Piltdown' soon. There is already evidence to suggest it is a fallacious theory.

Even as a child I couldn't understand how so much could be got from so little.

It is ridiculous that so much is surmised of the entire evolution of humanity from the miniscule percentage of fossils found.

And yes schools are still teaching fallacies, they forgot to update their science books.

You want to know just how stupid these liars think you are? That tooth was discovered in 1930 to be that of an extinct pig! This subterfuge has continued right up to the 1980′s .

originally posted by: kayej1188
a reply to: Starbucks

You need to be more clear in your arguments. It's very very difficult to understand what it is exactly that you're saying. I will address your first point however as best as I can. You seem to suggest that Homo Sapiens cannot have absorbed Neanderthal DNA because it would have stayed with current humans--at least I THINK this is what you're saying. However, current non-african humans share 1-4% of their DNA with the Neanderthals, which is highly suggestive of interbreeding, or "absorption" of their genetics. Am I addressing your point correctly?

the Y chromosome continue (whole) through generations. Same for Maternal DNA.
So If a neanderthal man had a son then the son will have his Neanderthal father Y chromosome and so on to his son and paternal descendents (even his lineage was absorbed by a homosapien clan and the homosapiens considered his son one of them because now he looks very much like them). The same way when a homosapien male marries a neanderthal woman, her Maternal DNA stay as a whole to her daughter and to her daughter's daughter, who would be very much look like homosapiens in the homosapien tribe)

In England many English have African E haplogroup even though they look europpeans with blue eyes ) only the DNA testing revealed that.

So if Homosapiens and Neanderthals intermarried and had children , they wouldn't know then who got the Neanderthal haplogroup and who got the Homosapien haplogroup (maternal or paternal haplogroups) so even if they decided to kill the other side offsprings in their clan they wont be able to know. Their only guide is the looks only).

For ALL current living homosapiens (current humans living on earth today) to have even a tiny part of Neanderthal DNA means they have to had to intermarry extensively ) and there have to be some current humans with totally different haplogroups that are 100% neanderthal.

a reply to: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing

The average estimates for post Toba event populations is 10-20,000 worldwide population. I have seen estimates as low as 4000 though. I'm personAlly inclined to say that the 10-20,000, while sounding very low seems to be in line with current genetic studies. Let me dig around and ill see if I can find a legit citation for that to make sure I'm not talking out of my ass.

a reply to: UnifiedSerenity

I know you can't show me god.... I know religion is faith, and faith is necessary for religion...


So I'm going to ask you to show me something.

Show the bodies of Adam, and Eve....

Not possible... That's what I thought, but that's okay

I'll settle for this.... Show me the very first bible....

Good luck, and I want it dated.

nobody answer my question.

May be I have to teach them some basics in dna so they can dare to answer without making unforgivable mistakes in their answers.

a reply to: Starbucks

Dude, what are you talking about? First of all, you're referring only the Y and X sex chromosome--you fail to mention the other 22 pairs of chromosomes that we each have, which would factor in tremendously to the features of such offspring. Offspring of a Neanderthal and a human would not have either "Neanderthal Dna" or "Human Dna," there genome would be completely intermixed. Yes, the Y chromosome gets passed down from the father to son, but this ONLY determines the sex of the offspring. Also, It's the mother MITOCHONDRIAL DNA that gets passed down from generation to generation, whether her offspring is a female or a male. You have your mothers Mitochondrial DNA, and she had her mothers Mitochondrial DNA. So HOW, exactly, would somebody today have 100% Neanderthal DNA if there was interbreeding 40,000 years ago? The fact that you even suggested such a notion implies that you seriously do not understand how genetics works, because that scenario is 100% impossible. Please don't talk as if you know what you're talking about, because you clearly don't.

a reply to: Starbucks

Just to add a thought, do you understand what a haplotype even is? A haplotype does not define ones entire DNA. It's just a small set of alleles on a chromosome that gets passed down by one parent. I fail to understand how this has anything significant to do with the fact that there was interbreeding between humans and neanderthals

a reply to: kayej1188dude youre stoned. I said haplogroup not haplotypes.
haplotype is a collection of STRs, while Haplogroup is the signature of a branch of the ancestral tree it is an SNP a single nuclue Protein on the main trunk of the chromosome, while STR is a branch on the trunk.

to a creation fans I bring the end of evolutionists theory of evolution.please read this post of mine from another thread. it proves beyond doubt that neanderthalas were homosapiens and the evolutionists were lying all along and their bones are fraud.

originally posted by: Starbucks
you did not answer any of my questions.

how did Neanderthal have dna in africans who did not leave africa. The back to africa migration is Maternal haplogroup M in Ethiopia, and Paternal Arabs J1.



subsaharan africa have no back migration. how did they get neanderthal dna in the last 200 000 years.

I repeat my question in th quote from my last post

the sharing of dna between neanderthal and homosapiens, means neanderthals are homosapiens but of Europpean dna, which match 88% with all human dna hence it is found in all humans even the african who never left africa, and because it is found in all humans all 7 billion of them, if the neanderthals were seperate species they could not bring their dna to all and every homosapiens who only sprang from one man in africa in recent times and some of them did not leave africa untill a very recent time 50k years at most.

Not to forget the fact that that shared dna is also found in all neanderthals samples! ha ha


and it even gets better, the Europpeans branched out even more recently 10k years ago, so to find more shared dna with europpeans means the neanderthals bones need to be of very recent time 5 thousand years ago


en.wikipedia.org... europpean haplogroup R1


This is how evolutionists finally shot themselves in the foot.
they did themselves in and they proved to the world that their bones are fraud just like their thoery

a reply to: Starbucks

Ok, since you are a whole boatload of special and refused to read or acknowledge my previous detailed responses in that prior thread, lets try something a little simpler. Perhaps a picture with arrows and dates will be easier-

As far as frauds, the only fraud I'm seeing is in whoever was responsible for your education. You continue to make inane claims and state them as fact without ever supporting your statements with a valid citation. If you refuse to follow the most basic aspects of scientific discovery how do you expect to be taken seriously when you claim knowledge based on science. It's ludicrous and until you support any of your assertions you will be seen as the chump you come off as. You are wrong on nearly every single thing you just stated and you won't support the statements because you know you can't. You're a joke and I'm calling you out for the troll you are. If you want a response from anyone then actually ATTEMPT the do the basics and support what you continue to claim. I've seen high school students more capable of creating a cognizant argument and support it. Now that I read it over again I rescind my earlier statement that you got nearly everything wrong. There is no nearly, its all completely wrong. Your absolute lack of understanding compounded with your beguiling level of condescension and ego are your undoing.

a reply to: Starbucks

Wow. You debunked evolution all by yourself. Feel free to publish your findings and pick up your Nobel Prize any day now.

a reply to: peter vlar

did you just shoot your self in the leg?

because your diagram shows the back to africa migration happened 3000 BC