Another sinkhole in the Orlando area sucks down vacation homes!

First came the cracking sounds. Then windows started blowing out. And before they knew it, guests felt the ground beneath their Lake County resort near Disney World sink into the ground.

Guests had only 10 to 15 minutes to escape the collapsing buildings at the Summer Bay Resort on U.S. Highway 192 in the Four Corners area, located about 7 miles west of Walt Disney World resort, where a large sinkhole — about 60 feet in diameter and 15 feet deep — opened in the earth late Sunday.

Really, this is getting stupid. They can scan and determine the structure by voids of a place like Iran's nuclear facilities and they can scan the airwaves for everything down to a goat herder ordering better boots for the crappy work....WHY can't they use satellites for scanning the ground we live on? Instead of gearing to find holes to kill people in? Let's find the holes we DO NOT want, about to eat people. This is becoming entirely too common in places it ought to be looked for, I'd think.

"My heart sunk. I was sick to my stomach," said resort president Paul Caldwell after getting a call about 10:30 p.m. from his staff that the 15-year-old buildings full of guests were sinking into the ground.

"No doubt there would've been injuries if they hadn't gotten the building evacuated," he said during a live news conference.

Source

This is going to come in a worse place and cost lives one of these days. Beneath a movie theater or some terrible thing. (No doubt playing a movie fitting to the event, too)

It's a 3 page article and pretty thorough to the topic with regard to the geology of that area. It still begs the question. Why not use the space age tech which absolutely does exist, I believe, for making war and making a little common sense prevention? Future lives may be grateful in ways they can never know.

Thats the risk the developers took i suppose, many probably assumed nothing would happen in their lifetime.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000


Really, this is getting stupid. They can scan and determine the structure by voids of a place like Iran's nuclear facilities and they can scan the airwaves for everything down to a goat herder ordering better boots for the crappy work....WHY can't they use satellites for scanning the ground we live on? Instead of gearing to find holes to kill people in? Let's find the holes we DO NOT want, about to eat people. This is becoming entirely too common in places it ought to be looked for, I'd think.

Simple, the amount of effort CONSTANTLY scanning every residential area for this type of thing would be monumental.

Don't be absurd Wrabbit that would probably cost as much as the PRISIM program does, and we all know they only spend that kind of money to protect us...

Hey wait a sec...

Well, if they were to scan with a Satellite for sinkhole possibilities in Florida before allowing building, there wouldn't be much building going on there.

Another sinkhole... People laugh when I say.... "I blame the Silver Surfer"....

All jokes aside, I hope everyone is ok and minimal injuries... Like stubbing your big toe while running out the house....

I didn't read the full article sorry wrabbit, I watched the vid... Though...

Have a great day~

reply to post by benrl

A bit harsh, eh? I didn't suggest scanning every square meter from California to Jacksonville. :shk:

However, as the article notes and explains, this area is particularly prone for sinkholes forming, as a good part of that state actually is.



It dramatically narrows down the area that screams for a regular look, as technology would seem to make it possible. If not now, then soon. Again, eventually, this will happen in a real tragic circumstance. Imagine one of those endless line type rides at Disney, having a sink hole form beneath it. There just hasn't been one high profile enough to justify the effort, it would seem.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by benrl

 

A bit harsh, eh? I didn't suggest scanning every square meter from California to Jacksonville. :shk:

Wasn't being harsh, I was being sarcastic at the thought of government actually spending money to ACTUALLY do something for our benefit for once.

I am not even suggesting that such a task would be impossible, even one such as just scanning areas at risk after say MAJOR flooding would be too much for the government to bother.

Remember the Levees in New Orleans? Infrastructure project could of saved 1000's and untold millions of dollars.

reply to post by benrl


Very true on New Orleans. Many say it's still nothing like 'Done' down there, despite many years and many 10's of billions poured into the place since Katrina. Good point on that,

It's so frustrating at times though. We almost certainly have the technology but choose not to use it in ways which are pressing and life/death for the public welfare. Public welfare in that legal, Constitutional way. As in...I wonder if the omission of action may someday be seen as actionable?

I guess it depends on how advanced we come to learn what they have now actually is, at some future point.

Acid rain is known to dissolve limestone, this could be a factor in the sinkholes in Florida. However, sinkholes have been a regular occurrence in Florida as long as the peninsula has existed. The population explosion is a factor and can explain why there seems to be more sinkholes now given that in the past most sink holes went unnoticed because no one lived there. Also the population explosion has taken its toll on the aquifer, and when there is no longer a pool of water underground to support the land a sinkhole can form.

The Florida sinkhole events are a case worth studying since there are several man made factors that could be contributing to them.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by benrl

 

Very true on New Orleans. Many say it's still nothing like 'Done' down there, despite many years and many 10's of billions poured into the place since Katrina. Good point on that,

It's so frustrating at times though. We almost certainly have the technology but choose not to use it in ways which are pressing and life/death for the public welfare. Public welfare in that legal, Constitutional way. As in...I wonder if the omission of action may someday be seen as actionable?

I guess it depends on how advanced we come to learn what they have now actually is, at some future point.

Our reps get too frightened every time they try to cut spending, say for Military, every time they do there happens to be a threat that pops off somewhere in the world...

So THEY have to cut infrastructure and spend on defense... If only hurricanes, sink holes, and earth quakes had lobbyist...

Karma...

You never know WHEN it will bite you in the...

The Summer Bay Resort, a timeshare vacation facility just a few miles west of Disneyworld in Central Florida is sinking in more than one way, some customers report. This weekend, two three-story buildings at the vacation resort were affected by a growing sinkhole that swallowed up parts of two vacation apartment buildings.

Customer Complaints - BBB "F" Rating

The Better Business Bureau of Central Florida gives the Summer Bay Resorts an "F" grade due to complaints filed against them over the last three years.

The BBB says 194 complaints were filed in the last three years and 38 in the last year. Complaints included 17 about sales or advertising, 17 billing issues, and 95 issues with service and the product sold to customers.

Orlando Area Summer Bay Resort Sinking?

This Summer Bay Partnership is a notorious group of thugs who have been victimizing hundreds of thousands of individuals in the U.S., Canada, U.K. and Australia using dozens of company names and hundreds different phone numbers, many of them fake. The state of Florida seems to have become a hotbed for every possible time of telemarketing fraud possible - an even better reason not to visit there if they can't control criminal activities within their borders.

The Summer Bay Partnership fraud ring has been going on for at least 6 years now and as far as I can tell only one state has done anything yet, and victims in the U.K., Australia, and Canada are getting bombarded with scam calls, ripped off, and their authorities have done absolutely squat as well. Allegation or issue being investigated: Possible violation of FL Statute 501, part II regarding vacation package (timeshare promotion) sales and marketing. AG unit handling case... 800notes.com...

Soho Resorts aka Summer Bay tried to scam us.

SUMMER BAY tried to scam me and almost succeeded!

Stay away from Summer Bay- Liars! www.pissedconsumer.com...

DON'T GO TO SUMMER BAY IF IT IS OFFERED TO YOU - IT IS A RIP OFF!!!!

www.tripadvisor.com...

Attorney General Chris Koster filed suit to stop two Florida telemarketing companies from making solicitation calls to Missourians who had previously placed their names on the state’s no-call list.

Koster’s suit is against Summer Bay Sales & Marketing of Clearmont, Florida, and Tele Secure International of Pompano Beach, Florida. Koster said the defendants made repetitive and harassing calls to consumers telling them they won a free trip and soliciting vacation travel packages.

An article in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch says:

Clermont, Fla.-based Summer Bay is owned by Joe H. Scott Sr., one of Missouri’s wealthiest developers and a defendant in the suit.

The suit says Scott is a Florida resident, but he also lives on a 8,000-acre spread in and around Ste. Genevieve County’s wine country. He owns Creve Coeur-based Scott Properties, which owns and manages 2 million square feet of commercial real estate; as well as Ste. Genevieve County’s Crown Valley Winery; an affiliated brewery and distillery; a tiger sanctuary and a nearby golf course.

Missouri Attorney General Koster sues Florida telemarketers

While I was on the phone with rude lady, I was doing a google search for Summer Bay Resorts and found page after page of complaints". Beware - don't reserve, don't go, RUN don't walk away from anyone having to do with Summer Bay Resorts. Nothing describe Summer Bay better than the word SCAM. www.pissedconsumer.com...

Summer Bay Resorts are a disgusting scam. I paid them $450.00 & they didn't provide what promised!!

In order to get the tickets to Disney we had no choice but to sit through a sales presentation on their timeshares. We sat through the presentation, and when we said we weren't interested, they ushered us to a higher up sales director who sat us down to try to "talk some sense into us." When we said no again, they sent us to yet another person. I was fed up and through a fit, and they finally gave us our tickets, but it wasted a whole morning we could have spent at one of the parks! www.pissedconsumer.com...

reply to post by Murgatroid


I will certainly agree that, given no one seems to have been seriously hurt, it couldn't have happened to nicer people. These are about the only 'housing units' which are not housing units at all, yet giving a full color rehearsal for what real ones would look like. It will be exceptionally ugly when (not if) this eventually happens under apartments rather than timeshares.

I had made the mistake of sitting through an Orlando timeshare presentation to get a cheaper ticket to Disney back in 2001 when I was down there as a trucker. By the end of the "short 45 minute presentation", I'd lost 90 minutes of my life and reached a point where I'd have cut down the tree and beaten them with it myself. Just like the picture there. (The cab that took/picked me up mentioned seeing one woman run out the driveway, screaming back at them one day). They are vultures.....

Still..... The ground just opening up to suck down whole Apartment buildings just isn't cool to see happen.

Sinkholes: When the Earth Opens Up

In fact, when you look at ones like # 8 in that? It's downright creepy how clean and straight they are. A small version of # 19.

To anyone thinking of staying at this place...

Make absolutely SURE that you do due diligence and search for SUMMER BAY scam

Some amateur video footage of the collapse:

I'm in the Tampa Bay area, and I know full well that while I've never had an encounter with a sinkhole myself growing up down here & as an adult down here than it's inevitable that I will the longer I'm down here. Florida sits atop limestone caves & voids, and limestone wears down easily. Every time we get a good dump of rain down here, it's a given that a sinkhole of some degree will open up from the rain erosion & weight on the limestone. It's not a matter of preventing that natural occurrence (because you can't, our literal foundation under the sand/dirt is what it is) It's a matter of knowing the geography and deciding if it's worth the risk to build on it. Some areas of the state are more stable in the long term than others are (see east coast FL) West coasters who are natives or very long term residents do know the risks and roll with them (kind of like hurricane season, except with the ground in this case) It's often the transplants from other states who pitch a fit over the ground stability, and I'm sorry, but if you're going to do that when you move here, know the geology, and pick a place better suited for abating your sudden collapse fears.

It would be nice if we could scan and thoroughly map the ground in this state, but good lord, think of how expensive that would be for the state geologists. Where is that money going to come from? Even if it was private companies ponying up the costs, where is that much going to come from? Surveys can only do so much anyway, just look at sinkholes in other states for that proof. Just because the earth is solid & free of voids now doesn't mean that in 20 years, weight and erosion won't alter that & surprise the crap out of someone.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by benrl

 

A bit harsh, eh? I didn't suggest scanning every square meter from California to Jacksonville. :shk:

However, as the article notes and explains, this area is particularly prone for sinkholes forming, as a good part of that state actually is.

It dramatically narrows down the area that screams for a regular look, as technology would seem to make it possible. If not now, then soon. Again, eventually, this will happen in a real tragic circumstance. Imagine one of those endless line type rides at Disney, having a sink hole form beneath it. There just hasn't been one high profile enough to justify the effort, it would seem.

Hey Wrabbit,

Could you post a link where you got the chart from? I'd like to check out other places in the US.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Want to see something really scary? In 2010, the population of the states which have shoreline on the East Coast was estimated at 112,642,503 (36% of the country's total population). en.wikipedia.org...

So we have 36% of the United states population living On land that will one day be gone.And Look at this.

During this testing process, a vessel tows one or more seismic airguns, which shoot extremely loud blasts of compressed air through the ocean and miles under the seafloor every ten seconds, 24 hours a day, for days to weeks on end. The airguns are 100,000 times more intense than a jet engine and can disturb the vital behaviors of fish, dolphins, whales and sea turtles, causing temporary and permanent hearing loss, driving animals from their homes, disrupting mating and causing animals to become stranded on beaches.

www.commondreams.org...

Then there is this from a few years ago

Surveying the armored shoreline, Jim Titus explains how the natural sinking of the shoreline and slow but steady sea-level rise, mostly due to climate change

www.wired.com... So sink holes are going to be a problem. Add the Fracking and we will see many changes to the east coast. Seems the world is moving faster then we are.

reply to post by eriktheawful


I wish I could say it was an index site in this case, but unfortunately not. I just ran a google search, flipped to image mode and made sure the data was being shown and confirmed across .edu and .gov sources in general to pick the more appealing looking graphic to use.

They do all show roughly the same thing for Florida and that one sources out of the state's version of USGS for who made it...so I figure it's as good as any.

Google Sinkhole data hunt

There are a couple on there which show the data in more creative ways though, of course.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Do we know if it is common for Florida to have sinkholes?

I'm still not sure what causes these. Is is the sea level? I'm sure of that were the case then much of the Gulf area would have these pretty regularly...?

-SAP-

reply to post by SloAnPainful


Actually, yeah... Florida has a special mix of geology that makes them more prone than other areas. To get serious about the topic for a moment, here is a U.S.G.S. report on West-Central Florida and Sinkholes. It's a few minutes to get through, but explains the particulars of why and why there.

SINKHOLES, WEST-CENTRAL FLORIDA

They cover a good deal of overview within that.

Hope it helps.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I also stayed at the Summer Bay Resort which I booked via orlando.hotelscheap . Only $42/night I wonder why?