New low for the Tea Party

reply to post by Indigo5

And yet your link is based on a study by the partisan American Enterprise Institute, a right wing org and a debunked, wholey skewed data-set from 2008.

So?

The only biased links allowed in this thread are like the one in the op ?

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Did you guys find out the truth yet?

Is this true?

Amazing 25 pages over something that hasn't been verified.

edit on 123131p://bTuesday2013 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

It's been verified that the documents were placed in several counties - but as for who did it or why? The matter seems to still be under investigation by the authorities.

IMO whether it's a lone nut, or a group of nuts - no matter what politics they may hold, this does table a relevant and necessary conversation about both the differences between conservatives and liberals - but also the perceptions that each side has of the other.

Originally posted by neo96
The biggest difference between the left and right.

The left loves to demagogue the right on their religious views and they love to deify government

The biggest difference? The right would like to legislate select Christian docterine, while disregarding Christian principles the same same way the Taliban would like to legislate select Islamic docterine, while disregarding Islamic principles...while the left believes in actual democracy. Republicans have moved so far right that don't even believe in a "republic" anymore...Thier economic ambitions have more in commen with China than the USA...where corporations are coddled by government and the populace is exploited at slave labor wages to profit the few.

reply to post by Hefficide


heff...would you care to reply to the message i addressed to you some 10-15 (i think) pages ago?

i'm curious to see your thoughts

reply to post by Indigo5

The biggest difference? The right would like to legislate select Christian docterine, while disregarding Christian principles the same same way the Taliban would like to legislate select Islamic docterine

Really ?

Who one is legislating government morality right now ?

That would be the left right ?

And comparing conservative to the Taliban is straight up intellectual dishonesty most people see that for what it is..

while the left believes in actual democracy.

Absolutely true the left does believe in mob might makes right, but as yet has to be right about anything.

Republicans have moved so far right that don't even believe in a "republic" anymore.

We all know the Democrats have moved so far left that have no clue what Republic means or Liberal means anymore other than to force fiat money and corporate products on to people they deem to be 'worthy'.

.Thier economic ambitions have more in commen with China than the USA.

The Democrats sure do with their corporate welfare programs called social engineering

where corporations are coddled by government and the populace is exploited at slave labor wages to profit the few.

True the Democrats sure do love to coddle corporations see those bankers via foodstamps, those insurance companies see the care act, them bankers again see 'everyone gets a free home', etc.

Do you really thing the left is better than the right ?

DO YOU REALLY think that ?

That is just sad.

reply to post by Hefficide


Problem Heff is the source. There were other sources that clearly defined this as Hate.

None of the other sources defined it as "Tea Party".

Portland neighborhoods littered with hate letters targeting disabled

Fliers targeting the disabled have been reported in 14 Portland neighborhoods

If we are going to be highly critical of sites like beforeitsnews, we should be critical of sites that promote this type of garbage too. MHO

reply to post by Hefficide

It's been verified that the documents were placed in several counties - but as for who did it or why?

Thank you

That is what I was wondering, who dun it?

Originally posted by neo96

And comparing conservative to the Taliban is straight up intellectual dishonesty most people see that for what it is..

Apologies...Not "Conservatives"...but rather the far-right who have hijacked the Conservative Party...

- Ideological purity
- Compromise as weakness
- A fundamentalist belief in scriptural literalism
- Denying science
- Unmoved by facts
- Undeterred by new information
- A hostile fear of progress
- A demonization of education
- A need to control women’s bodies
- Severe xenophobia
- Tribal mentality
- Intolerance of dissent
- A pathological hatred of the US government

They can call themselves the Tea Party. They can call themselves Conservatives. And they can even call themselves Republicans. Though Republican’s certainly shouldn’t. But we should call them what they are: The American Taliban. And the American Taliban cannot survive if Dorothy Cooper is allowed to vote.

www.dailykos.com...#

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by seabag

 

I continuously see these allusions to people living high on the hog with disability. You do realize that the average disability claim nets about seventeen grand a year. That is just above the poverty line for a family of two, and just below for a family of three.

Hardly the life of Riley.

Oh, and FTR - though I am currently in the process of getting disability ( four years and counting - thus proving it's not just something one signs up for and gets ) - I worked for well over thirty years with my diagnosis before my health finally deteriorated to the point where I no longer could work. In fact just leaving the house to go to the grocery store is an ordeal that sometimes takes days of build-up and work to manage.

These tales being told of late model luxury cars and frequently luxury vacations? I can't say that there might not be people who have figured out how to game the system... I can only say that my life is nothing like that at all. In fact I currently do not even own a car.

With that, I'm back out.

i don't doubt that you have legitimate medical problems...i have no reason to believe you would lie, based on what i know of you...

but for everyone of you...people with genuine and legitimate issues, who have a genuine need for those monies, there are two, or three, or even four-plus who are simply lazy, and find a quack doctor who will certify that they are in genuine need of those monies.....

at one of my previous jobs, i would see recipients of public monies, living orders of magnitude better than i was, and i was out there, busting my ass, working, and killing myself for everything i had, and it was nowhere near as good as they had it.

they had nice condos, or apartments in safe neighborhoods, nice cars, nice clothes....and i was living with my parents, because i didn't make enough to have an apartment, drove one of their cars to work, because i could not afford one, and got most of my food from an establishment nearby my job, because i was almost always at work...

hell, i even once met an illegal from mexico...he was on welfare, and a few other programs, had a fifty-thousand dollar H2, with aftermarket accessories, lived in an expensive condo, and was well off enough to be a customer of the store i worked for, on a regular basis...

there was nothing wrong with these people...they could get jobs, they just didn't want to....

so again, i make the point, that it isn't necessarily the EXISTENCE of these programs that is the problem, it is the rampant ABUSE of them...

people who legitimately NEED help should get it....everyone else should be told to go get a job, and EARN their way in life..

reply to post by Daedalus


If you mean this post ( ? )

My thoughts are kind of three fold I suppose.

1) As I've stated all along, the system needs to be overhauled and restructured. That means all aspects of it including those who abuse it.

2) Not being a doctor, I cannot say if that combination of ailments may or may not be debilitating to the point of needing full disability. I have been acquainted with two different people with OCD ( I myself have OCPD - basically OCD light ) who were absolutely rendered non-functional by their diagnosis - even on medication. In its most potent form it's a very frightening illness on par with any dissociative illness, such as schizophrenia.

3) For many years I did not openly discuss my problems with anyone other than family, girlfriends, and very close friends. Given that I also have the heart issue... if people asked about my doctors visits, medications, etc. I'd simply say "It's just the heart thing". I was afraid of the social judgment that a mental health diagnosis tends to carry. I imagine it is possible that this person could be downplaying the truth of their situation ( by minimization or omission out of vanity or something like that ).

I guess the summary would be - I would not feel comfortable assuming that just because a person appears healthy, that they actually are healthy but I would want a system in place that I could trust to do some due diligence to make sure that they were providing benefits to the ones who actually need it and not to opportunists or charlatans.

reply to post by GeoThom


Sound advice GT.



People need to wake the hell up, and start doing something now.

reply to post by Indigo5


Apologies ?

Apologies ?

The start off apologizing to the people who were insulted in

This post

Then apologize to them for equating them to the Taliban.

Don't like the hijack excuse anyway because that is a cop out.

reply to post by Indigo5


I love Progressive hit pieces about Conservative groups, and when those same groups go on to explain how those Conservative groups need to change to win elections.

Kind of like when the Prosecution goes over to the Defense and offers way for them to win the trial.

Or, when a sales person tells me just how to get a lower price then what they are offering.

I see a lot of people questioning the source of this and questioning if this really happened and if it was the Tea Party that was responsible.

I think the real question I would like to see answered by these people is if they agree with what the letter says.

Who cares who did it, some people seem to be defending what the letter says while also denying the Tea Party was involved at the same time. But if you agree with it, and you support the Tea Party, why would you care if this is pegged on the Tea Party?

It seems like some people are showing their true colors by leaning towards agreement with what the letter says, but also realizing that their opinions are not very acceptable or moral and thus are trying to shield the Tea Party from being attributed with those opinions, even though it is secretly why they support the Tea Party.

reply to post by Hefficide


I understand heff, and I believe my panic disorder came from the event of my mothers death, I know that was the trigger, and I believe it is also a PTSD.

It went undiagnosed for years, it was a death sentence for me, I went form a vibrant outdoors woman athlete to a prisoner in my own home, cannot hold down a job so I cleaned houses and babysat, still do.

I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy.

OH and in the beginning it was embarrassing and humiliating I hid it, now I really don't give a poo what people think, that actually helps.

reply to post by AlienScience


The Majority here want some kind of reform, cause the system is broken. Page after Page.

Who ever did this should go to jail. Period.

The "source" should be held to scrutiny. Its pointing the finger at the Tea Party, with NO proof.

There is a reason they are called, "Entitlement Programs." If a man or a woman pay in to the system for years than find themselves disabled and unable to work, than in my opinion they would be stupid not to file for a benefit that they've already paid into. Granted there are some who abuse the system, but to call them out publicly is not the way to get anything done. The solution to that would be tighter vetting of the applicants.

When it comes down to not having enough money in the coffers to pay for the programs the blame goes to the government for borrowing from the Social Security fund without permission of the folks that pay into it. I don't believe in a welfare state and don't belong to any political party, but we do have this system and those who have paid into it should get their money back especially right now with the U.S. dollar on the verge of collapse. To me it's just common sense.

What of the people who work hard for a living but blow their money gambling to the point of not being able to provide for their families? Do we call them out as well? The same thing with those addicted to drugs/alcohol and can't provide for their family. You better be damn well be perfect before you start judging others.

We need to stop the welfare programs, but as long as someone keeps paying into them than they will deserve to get that money back somehow. Lets start off by closing over 700+ useless military bases around the globe, or the billions upon billions of dollars we hand out in foreign aid worldwide. That will pay for those who legitimately deserve a government check, and than we can take the steps to end some of these programs.

Originally posted by Hefficide

FWIW - the anger about the Tea Party association really isn't the fault of the OP - it's the fault of the person who wrote the article the OP is based upon. The OP used the same title - except he/she was polite enough to change it from "New Low for the Tea Baggers" to "New Low for the Tea Party".

Given that ATS, staff and members alike, tend to point out when threads are titled differently than their source material? I think a benefit of the doubt moment does exist here.

no, i believe the blame does lie in part, with him.....

he has once again started an ignorant, poorly sourced thread, that serves as nothing more as a hit piece, serving his political agenda....

he has no facts, no proof...nothing...and then when people called him out on his BS, he abandoned the thread, because he could not defend any of it, or even withstand a little scrutiny..

people like him keep the BS going..

this thread should be dumped in the LOL section, and forgotten..

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Indigo5

 

I love Progressive hit pieces about Conservative groups, and when those same groups go on to explain how those Conservative groups need to change to win elections.

By "progressive(s)" you mean Newt Gingrich, Jeb Bush, Bobby Jindal? and the laundry list of other conservatives pointing out the painful reality that the TP agenda will kill the GOP?

Or the reality that the GOP have not one the popular vote in a Presidential election, but once, in the past 24 years?

"Idealogical purity"..."Compromise as a weakness"...it labels "conservatives" that don't fit those requirements as RINOs...even Liberals posing as conservatives.

Hell the Democrats are bound for demise if the TP maintains it's death grip on the GOP...but not until well after the GOP dies a slow death and the Dems have complete power...Unchecked power corrupts and makes for horrible government.

Government works best with dialogue, compromise, debate...and the proudly obstructionist, do-nothing GOP Congress are operating with an extremist mentality that does not afford debate or compromise. They lynch thier own whenever thier is even the smell of it. Boehner lives in fear of his own party base.

So ...yes. I would like the Conservatives of old to succeed, or one day soon we are all screwed.

Your mistake is begining with the assumption that one party must "win"...if that happens all of of us lose.

Good government is through compromise...checks and balances...and as long as the TP demands to burn the whole thing down and refuses to engage in compromise...the GOP will shrink with every election and the Dems will gain enough unchecked power where they will fail...and the pendulum will swing wildly from left to right.

A healthy conservative party is needed to provide rational checks and balances...The Conservative party as it stands will not survive. Yes it must change.

Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Can you prove to me that anyone in that group holding the signs is an actual patriot.

can you prove any of them aren't?

Nope, can you prove the sign in the ops isn't?

It seems you are saying we can no longer reasonably assume...there must be proof..maybe a video of them making it.

Assumptions are nearly NEVER acceptable.... and the only way your "reasonable assumption" works, is when stating an opinion...which is not what was done in the OP, and the article it linked to...they were stating that it was fact that it was done by a specific group of people, with no proof.

I assume a tsunami won't come hit the beaches nearby tomorrow, thereby killing myself and everyone around...therefore, I will pay my mortgage
So far, my assumption has been pretty good, reasonable probability tends to be used in every day life, else we would be just a shuddering mess hiding under a rock waiting for a sharknado to get us all.

he brains at ATS decided this...

to whom are you referring, and what is it that they decided?

Incidently, can we be certain humans wrote the poem on the statue of liberty? is there a youtube video of humans doing it?

yes. because there are witnesses, and documentation....you know...that annoying stuff we mentioned before...proof...

Ahh, the MSM info and doctored history you mean?!
I have been following the...special..mindsets of people and it seems it any msm says it (outside of one specific msm outlet anyhow), then it is most likely false, liberal lies and skewed. Are you saying that all the history, information, and basic education is in fact correct? some people (not myself) may object to such a claim.
If you start questioning everything, even the most given aspects, then where do you stop? when it suddenly doesn't suit your particular tastes?

I give up...you refuse to acknowledge how I said the letter is almost beside the point and should lead to a discussion, but some of you are too thick to comprehend that
so, nevermind..actually...I know who wrote the sign in ops. it was clearly baby hitler with help from demon aliens....because the tea party lubs welfare programs and never, ever would say anything bad about them.

i'm sorry..your argument is as laughable as your position, and really....implying i'm stupid because i don't believe what you believe, and because i actually require proof, or because i actually want to talk about the topic this thread is about, instead of "teh tea partee is soh mean, bekuz they wanna take away everebuddy's welfare", really is a lame tactic....

all it shows is that your position cannot, and does not hold up to scrutiny, and that you know it, but refuse to accept it.....because it's so much easier to stay on the baseless blame bandwagon..

edit on 13-8-2013 by Daedalus because: (no reason given)

I have stated many times my position, have expanded on it, given links of the expansion, and discussed reasonable assumption based on background intel
I am not saying you are stupid because you don't believe what I believe, as I didn't post a belief.
No. But I am questioning your ability to follow what is being said to begin with.
And as I said, I give up. short of drawing 3rd grade pictures, there really is no passing of ideas and references to someone completely blocked from receiving any input (be it intentional or simply a limitation).

So go back to your "the walfair people r steelin muh jerb" nonsense and ignore the actual issue with the farm bill. cool story.

And as I said, I am glad it seems the tea party is now totally for food assistance programs...ATS said so, regardless of the 2200 chapters I pointed out saying the exact opposite. Cool new development. Bout time they got their heads out of their collective backside