Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency - RT

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posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 08:45 AM
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Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency - RT


rt.com

A federal judge has for the first time ruled that Bitcoin is a legitimate currency, opening up the possibility for the digital crypto-cash to soon be regulated by governmental overseers.

United States Magistrate Judge Amos Mazzant for the Eastern District of Texas ruled Tuesday that the US Securities and Exchange Commission can proceed with a lawsuit against the operator of a Bitcoin-based hedge fund because, despite existing only on the digital realm, “Bitcoin is a currency or form of money.”
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 08:45 AM
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So of course this sounds like, and is kind of, a win for the younger generation - however, check this out:





Despite Shavers’ argument, Mazzant weighed in this week with an opinion that’s not only quite the contrary, but could have widespread repercussions in the world of Bitcoin.

“It is clear that Bitcoin can be used as money,” Mazzant wrote. “It can be used to purchase goods or services, and as Shavers stated, used to pay for individual living expenses. The only limitation of Bitcoin is that it is limited to those places that accept it as currency. However, it can also be exchanged for conventional currencies, such as the US dollar, Euro, Yen and Yuan. Therefore, Bitcoin is a currency or form of money, and investors wishing to invest in BTCST provided an investment of money.”

Bitcoin investments "meet the definition of investment contract, and as such, are securities,” the judge added. Now with the magistrate’s blessing, the SEC can continue with its case against Shavers and his site. With that same ruling, though, the government is for now getting the go ahead for what could lead to the rampant regulation of Bitcoin.

rt.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 10-8-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-8-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 09:25 AM
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They might single out one crypto, but there are many other viable ones in the mix, one I invested in early and am seeing good positive growth both in the community and the value..

But I expect frivilous law suits to ensue regardless, testing what can and will be accepted..



posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by darkbake



Does bitcoin exist in this physical form?

Heh, just when we have a currency not controlled by the banks and governments they want control.
First control by the government then they give that control to the banks.
YEE HAW

How difficult would it be for them to seize control anyway?



posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by Toadmund
 



Does bitcoin exist in this physical form?

No, but you can write out the secret key which allows you to store your bitcoins onto a piece of paper or you can engrave it into a coin.


How difficult would it be for them to seize control anyway?

About all they can do is regulate the exchanges. It's always been known that the exchanges were the weakest point and we should be expecting more regulation at some point because it will happen.
edit on 10/8/2013 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 09:55 AM
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I have a friend
that is trying this...

the mining of coins part...

dose any1 know exactly how the mining works


my friend tells me its folding of computations ...
when I ask what are the computations for ?
he says no one really knows...

can any1 shed light there?



posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by spoonbender
 



dose any1 know exactly how the mining works

my friend tells me its folding of computations ...
when I ask what are the computations for ?
he says no one really knows...

It's complicated but obviously many of us know how it works. You really need to understand the blockchain though to understand mining. Basically, the miners constantly work on solving computationally difficult problems and they chain together the solutions to form the "blockchain". The problem is a hashing problem, meaning it's more like a random lottery where the number of tickets you have is determined by how much computing power you have; the miner must keep hashing the block using the SHA256 algorithm (incrementing the nonce each time) until they find a hash where the numerical hex value of the hash is lower than the current target. The lower the target, the higher the difficulty of finding a solution.

The difficulty is adjusted by the network every 2016 blocks so that 1 block is solved every 10 minutes on average which ensures that the money supply increases at a predictable rate (miners are rewarded with newly minted coins when they solve a block). When a miner finds a solution (which is called "solving a block") they then broadcast that solved block to the network and the other nodes accept that block onto their chain if it looks valid, then all the miners start working on a new problem which is linked to the last solution. Every block in the blockchain is linked to the one before it because the hash of the previous block (which is the solution) is contained in the header of the next block. And that is basically the most compact explanation you'll ever read on how mining works.
edit on 10/8/2013 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


Thanks for that explanation. What is the value of the blockchain? The product the miners are making are "blockchains" as you say, but what is that? Why is that worth a bitcoin? Does this "resource" ever run out?



posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Philippines
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


Thanks for that explanation. What is the value of the blockchain? The product the miners are making are "blockchains" as you say, but what is that? Why is that worth a bitcoin? Does this "resource" ever run out?

Each crypto-currency only has one blockchain (there are other crypto-coins besides bitcoin). The blockchain is like a massive ledger, it contains every transaction that ever happened. Really there is no such thing as a "bitcoin", it's just a ledger which allows us to calculate the balance of each account. Every block contains a bunch of transactions but there is a limit to how big each block can be (the miner also gets the transaction fees so they include transactions with higher transaction fees first). I should have mentioned in my last post that hash of the block changes not only when the nonce is changed but also when the miner adds more transactions into the block.

The reason bitcoins have value is because they are expensive to create and also because they provide a useful purpose as a global decentralized currency which cannot be controlled by a government or central bank. And yes, the amount of bitcoins which can ever be created is limited to 21 million (it's actually a max of 2.1 quadrillion units because each bitcoin is divisible by 8 decimal places). The reward for solving a block is halved every 210,000 blocks so that eventually the reward will become nothing and no new bitcoins will be created beyond that point.
edit on 10/8/2013 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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Every year the secret budget looses billions to nowhere. This is actually going to the Illuminati using their 'secret' drawing right privileges.
Ofcourse, as soon as anything gets big enough, they'll take a chunk because they literally DO own this country, they OWN our government. Atleast on paper. They run it like that, they run us all like a plantation state. About the sickness, the wicked ways of that secret society branded by Satan's children the grays, giant ones according to Phil Schneider, you have to wonder wtf is going on. Now things have become even more clear to me lately when I discovered a video proving that the 666beast of the bible which Jesus mocks, is actually the VATICAN!

Yes the US is ready for a fall, they're setting it up for one. There can be no eutopia here on earth.

Everyone must make their own country. It's not beyond your right either. Own land and file. Become an s-corp... a citizen of your own country, not the U.S. The FBI will threaten to deport you, however if you own land to be deported to, no problem.



posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by Philippines
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


Thanks for that explanation. What is the value of the blockchain? The product the miners are making are "blockchains" as you say, but what is that? Why is that worth a bitcoin? Does this "resource" ever run out?

Each crypto-currency only has one blockchain (there are other crypto-coins besides bitcoin). The blockchain is like a massive ledger, it contains every transaction that ever happened. Really there is no such thing as a "bitcoin", it's just a ledger which allows us to calculate the balance of each account. Every block contains a bunch of transactions but there is a limit to how big each block can be (the miner also gets the transaction fees so they include transactions with higher transaction fees first). I should have mentioned in my last post that hash of the block changes not only when the nonce is changed but also when the miner adds more transactions into the block.

The reason bitcoins have value is because they are expensive to create and also because they provide a useful purpose as a global decentralized currency which cannot be controlled by a government or central bank. And yes, the amount of bitcoins which can ever be created is limited to 21 million (it's actually a max of 2.1 quadrillion units because each bitcoin is divisible by 8 decimal places). The reward for solving a block is halved every 210,000 blocks so that eventually the reward will become nothing and no new bitcoins will be created beyond that point.
edit on 10/8/2013 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)


Thanks for the response, though a bit technical, I can follow it except the big picture.

As I understand it, there is something to crack and "bitcoin" is using the computing power of "miners'" computing power to crack the code in the forms of blockchains, which are assigned a monetary value through a "free market"?

I do know computing power costs time and money, and there are machines made specifically for solving the encryption. What is encrypted that is being solved?

If this is a decentralized currency, then what serves as the ledger to calculate the balance of each account?

Can you please explain the big picture in a nutshell and how this currency has value? You mention it is finite, like gold, but limited to 21,000,000 units. That makes its value relative to other currencies with infinite units imo.



posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 12:35 PM
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I have the best reserve curruncy if a SHTF situation ever happend.

Stockpile of commom medication like anti biotics.

When someone or there loved ones are dying of a common infection they will trade everything they own for a course of anti biotics



posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by Philippines
 



I do know computing power costs time and money, and there are machines made specifically for solving the encryption. What is encrypted that is being solved?

It's not an encryption problem, it's a hashing problem, like I said. For example, the SHA256 hash of the string "hi" is "8f434346648f6b96df89dda901c5176b10a6d83961dd3c1ac88b59b2dc327aa4". The resulting hash can be interpreted as a hex string and converted into a number. That hash when converted into a number equals 6.479958041553897x10^76. Now the miners are basically doing the same thing, but instead of hashing "hi" they are hashing a "block". A block is basically just an abstract concept meaning a collection of data which includes the transactions and some other data like the nonce and a time stamp. The nonce is just a number which the miner changes every time they hash the block.

They keep changing the nonce and then check the hash of the block until they get a hash which results in a number lower than the current target. Hashing is a very random process, for example the SHA256 hash of "he" is "372f7e2fd2d01ce2a1d71dc072acbba4c6fd25a1087cd7f153f4ec0ce37e1ede", which is nothing like the hash of "hi", and it's the same when hashing large chunks of data. Even just changing the nonce of the block results in a very different hash, and you can't really predict the best nonce to use, you just have to keep increasing it until you strike gold. Once a solution is found the block is broadcast out into the network and other nodes can check that its hash is below the target.


If this is a decentralized currency, then what serves as the ledger to calculate the balance of each account?

The blockchain is the ledger, it's a chain of blocks, the things the miners hash. Each block contains transactions which the miner scoops up from the network and shoves into the block while they are trying to "solve" it. Putting new transactions into the block will do the same thing as changing the nonce: it will give the block a new hash. All the nodes in the network keep track of the full blockchain right back to the "genesis block" so you can calculate exactly how many bitcoins each account holds by looking at the blockchain.
edit on 10/8/2013 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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Physical money is becoming more of a memory than reality to me at the moment. Most of my moneys etched into my hard-drive.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 05:31 AM
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reply to post by darkbake


So of course this sounds like, and is kind of, a win for the younger generation - however, check this out:


 


How is being liable for tax a "win"?






posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 10:07 AM
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If you think the powers that be are going to allow bitcoin too corner the market on their cashless society wetdream,, You've Got Another Thing Comin'




edit on 11-8-2013 by Blowback because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 10:14 AM
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with all due respect to my fellow ATS'ers....if you do not know why there is a problem with this, you need to do some research. barter is one thing, creating another form of currency is quite another. history gives you a laboratory of what can, and has, gone wrong.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by Toadmund
 
Ill be the first to say BRS Bitcoin Revenue Service will be calling the IRS to get their fair share or vice versa, some one might have made or spent $10,000,000.00 on the web in Bitcoin, 40% in real tax is going to hurt.



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 11:26 AM
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oh, did a court do this? Because before we had monopoly money, people were free to trade in whatever they wanted. Now people get arrested for minting their own coins. Land of the free and all that.



posted on Aug, 13 2013 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by crazyewok
I have the best reserve curruncy if a SHTF situation ever happend.

Stockpile of commom medication like anti biotics.

When someone or there loved ones are dying of a common infection they will trade everything they own for a course of anti biotics


Hopfully you have some steel and brass to go with the antbiotics.





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