The Spaceships of Ezekiel (Revisited)

reply to post by raymundoko

Astrobiologist David Grinspoon has been looking into the habitability issue regarding Venus. The article below is from 2003, but it seems as though the exact time of the atmospheric shift is difficult to determine, it obviously could have happened at a much later stage ...

Venus possibly habitable for billions of years

The hellish climate of Venus may have arisen far more recently than previously supposed, suggests new research. If so, pleasant Earth-like conditions probably persisted for two billion years after the planet's birth - plenty of time for life to have developed.

(...)

But the planet once had a climate similar to Earth's and vast oceans of water. Planetary scientists agree that period ended when Venus lost its water due to a runaway greenhouse effect, but the question is when.

This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel

reply to post by jeep3r


You know that sounds like the description of a gyroscope.

Two wheels on separate axis.

reply to post by CatherineWheel


But the whole chapter of Ezekiel 1 doesn't describe a spaceship.

The author sums up this whole multi-paragraph description saying that "This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord."

Originally posted by geobro
maybe ezekiel was smoking something

you just never know what they got up to back then yip thats it they were mad stoners case closed

Well smoking something or not, spaceships or not. The important thing isn't drawings or sketches.

The important part of the story is what violations of moral conduct that constitute murder were they engaged in that warranted the death penalty.

That's the only part in the Bible that really needs any attention. Some things like stealing a pack of gum don't warrant God destroying people with plagues and the sword of their enemies.

Other things like rape and murder, and systematic sexual abuse will result in the warnings of destruction that God issued to the people through the prophet at the time.

If we do achieve interstellar flight one day and visit another planet inhabited by primitive beings we to will be seen as gods and those beings would create a religion around us and then as they get more advanced some of them will question weather we wore gods or aliens just like we do today.

OP: although I believe the Ezekiel vision was actually a psychic thing (an archetypal, powerful qabala-esque experience), I think your initial post and the pics are fabulous! Really great match up for all of it! Star for sure.

Originally posted by CatherineWheel

This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel

reply to post by jeep3r

 

You know that sounds like the description of a gyroscope. Two wheels on separate axis.

... or like a description of omnidirectional wheels

Originally posted by jeep3r

In fact, this one is so detailed that former NASA engineer Joseph Blumrich was able to design a blueprint of what Ezekiel saw. Based on this model from the 1970s, I created some renderings with additional details and hope you'll enjoy the compilation of pics and text snippets (fullsize images are w/o captions). So here we go ...

I remember reading his book in the 70's. Thanks for posting.

I'm a little late to the party but I would like to comment.

First, great renderings, best I have seen.

One point that has always bothered me is that if such a craft did indeed land, then it would seem odd that Ezekiel just happened to be there (being a priest) and that no-one else saw a thing. It came at just the time when Ezekiel was pushing for a second temple to be built back in the homeland. Rather handy.

So... is it not more likely that Ezekiel never had this encounter but instead he took some ancient eye-witness account to use for his own political/religious agenda? The account sounds too detailed and technologically plausible to be invented but it is equally unlikely that it actually occurred at this time. So who might have been that eye-witness, and when? Enoch? Elijah? Moses?

Another point is on who might have created such technology. To date we know of only one such suitable planet: the Earth. Is it conceivable that humans built it? It is not impossible (certainly no more unlikely than aliens) that humans have been space-faring before this civilisation begun, got into space and some have returned. Personally, I think it would be fantastic if Neanderthal man got into space and later became seen as gods.

Years ago I used to make plastic models of Ezekiel's Spaceship (and manna machines), and I translated the Hebrew Chapter 1 to try and be as accurate as possible. In the end I made my rotors fold differently to Josef Blumrich's; on mine the two rotors on the far side from the engine folded down (protected by the helicopter body), while the nearer two folded upwards, which makes their tips almost touch just as Ezekiel had wrote.

Ezekiel's vision is a real puzzle and I urge anyone to read it. Even religious people acknowledge it is a device, it is so blatant. Funny how it was never taught at school or church.

There we go...


All plastic. Now broken and covered in dust somewhere.

The Apache helicopter image was quite interesting and could prove a viable rendition of craft. Very cool. I have seen the drawings before but thanks for bringing light ion them again. S&F

reply to post by jeep3r


This is an excellent post, made especially interesting by the 3D renderings that help give us vision to what the spacecraft may have looked like. As I read the section from Ezekiel that describes the "faces" on the craft, I'm reminded that he may have been trying to describe icons or symbols in the only terms he knew: likening them to animals.

"Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a human being, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle." - Ezekiel 1:10

Imagine if what Ezekiel saw was something like this:

Imagine how each icon can resemble the animal it is labeled with.

We use these types of graphic symbols today on crafts, machinery, and materials that can cause harm if people get to close, or handle improperly:

Considering this perspective, I believe the "faces" described were symbols or icons from the alien visitor's home planet. They were likely warning symbols or mechanical symbols intended to warn from getting too close to thrusters, rotors, or areas of radiation emission.

Similarly, this kind of interpretation of symbols or icons could also be the reason that Pakal's spacecraft is shown with faces and decorations of an iconographic nature:

Pakal - Myan Astronaut

edit on 30-3-2014 by KanuTruth because: Found type-o

edit on 30-3-2014 by KanuTruth because: (no reason given)

Buziblu
There we go...

All plastic. Now broken and covered in dust somewhere.

You built a scale model of that scene? That's pretty amazing and really looks great! Thanks a lot for sharing this (also, I'm glad you liked the renditions, don't know if I could have done such a good job when it comes to modelling ...)

I wonder if members here are familiar with Enoch's ascension to heaven as described in the Talmud? It is slightly off topic but a curious account which may be talking about the same type of craft as Ezekiel.

Enoch is due to be taken to heaven by a "whirlwind" and urges his followers to go back else they will get killed. This goes on seven days and sure enough, after Enoch has disappeared, the bodies are found dead - in snow and ice which is odd.

"And on the seventh day Enoch ascended to heaven in a whirlwind,
with chariot and horses of fire.

And it came to pass after Enoch had gone up to heaven that the people
started out to search for those men who had followed after him. And
on the spot where they had left them they found deep snow and ice.
They cut through the ice and they found there the dead bodies of the
men for whom they were searching, but Enoch they did not find.
Therefore is this the meaning of the words of Scripture, "And Enoch
walked with God; and he was not" (he was not where search was
made), "for God had taken him" (Gen. 5: 24). "

Source: Talmud Selections - H. Polano, page 21

reply to post by jeep3r

You built a scale model of that scene? That's pretty amazing and really looks great! Thanks a lot for sharing this (also, I'm glad you liked the renditions, don't know if I could have done such a good job when it comes to modelling ...)

Glad you liked it, thanks. Yep, everything was real except the mountains which came off the internet just recently. The model is about 20 cm high and I made a few of them with either folded rotors or spinning ones. Quite easy to make once I had made the wooden mold for the vacuum former. I also drew a set of instructions for making one from cardboard and old pens - this was long ago mind you - but everything spun or folded as it should. These days I think I would just buy a ready-made remote controlled quadcopter and modify it.

Your images have detail though and can show the various stages. They look more realistic too.

It is funny how Ezekiel makes no mention of noise as the craft approaches from the north. I would have thought that the deafening roar would have been the overriding aspect. There is no compelling reason to believe this is a spaceship, as it could simply be an aircraft - a scaled up quadcopter - but then how to explain the storm with fire in its midst?

While I do believe that Ezekiel saw an aerial vehicle, I also believe that vehicle was terrestrial rather than extraterrestrial.

The Near & Middle East was just a hop, skip and a jump away from ancient India where 'Vimanas' (described as 'aerial cars') were evidently quite available to those elites within the 'Kshatriya varna'. i.e. their caste system of warriors and kings.

India was a nation of militants who trained their kings to be 'world emperors.' Their philosophy was expansionist and parts of the Rig Veda (particularly the parts attributed to Indra) read like it's a blueprint for the New World Order & One World government most of us see on our horizon today.

The Old Testament philosophy was…

• I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)
• Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6, KJV)
• Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38)

In the New Testament, the above gets paraphrase to "All things come from God" (1 Chronicles 29.12-15, 18). In other words, under the Hebrew philosophy, Vimana driving Vedic Aryans could have indeed been classified as 'angels of the Lord', and the term 'angel' basically meant 'messenger.'

Since we absolutely know that the Akkadian King, Naram Sin deified himself as "a god" & that most kings in the Near East followed suite, I dare say it is likely that a significant number of Hebrews made little distinction between "the gods" and God (with a capital G.)

I think Ezekiel saw a Vimana from India, and as nearly as I can determine, Vimanas were in the hands of the TERRESTRIAL elites.

IMO, there was no ET to it.

Great thread, by the way. I've really enjoyed it.

reply to post by Riddles


I totally agree Riddles, that it is far more likely this craft was terrestrial. If we are looking for a possible origin of such craft then as you say, India would be an obvious candidate. A key question is when?

I just cannot see some flying deity visiting Ezekiel just for the purpose of promoting a new temple but I could very well imagine Ezekiel coming across an ancient document, recently taken from Solomon's Temple, and using it to boost his credibility. Ezekiel 1 starts off fantastically, so gripping to read and full of amazing detail but as soon as chapter 2 starts it is the same old twaddle, in my view.

The business with the man in white linen and taking coals out to spread around the city reminds me of Hezekiah and the Assyrian siege on Jerusalem (c. 701 BCE). He prayed before the LORD of Hosts then an angel went out among the encamped army and they were all found dead next morning. Could Ezekiel be mixing events to add credibility?

Similarly with the Glory of the LORD (lit. "Heaviness of YHWH) filling the temple with a cloud - that echoes the account of the installation of the Ark into Solomon's Holy of Holies which is described in exactly these terms and is a common theme.

The conclusion I reach is that this encounter happened much earlier than 592 BCE and Ezekiel found it then used it for his own ends, successfully I suppose as the new temple did eventually get built. (The reluctance of course was because the LORD that Hezekiah had prayed to and Isaiah had glimpsed earlier (c. 742 BCE), had now vanished, so what was the point?).

But certainly India is one place to be looking for clues. When were these Vimanas supposed to exist? How far back were the wars?

Thank you very much this is really well done!

originally posted by: _BoneZ_

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Do you really think a race that is so advanced they overcame interstellar travel that they would uses machines that beat the air for flight?

We have no idea what kind of technology an alien civilization utilizes. We can't even fathom the technology they would use for interstellar travel. Yes, there could be an advanced civilization that has amazing interstellar capabilities, but still uses rockets and rotors for in-atmosphere flight.

No kidding and we don't know that these aliens even represented their civilization. They may have been space pirates breaking intergalactic law with stolen technology and gaps in their quality of gear. They come to a foreign planet, change the culture, reports of raining fiery judgement, maybe genetically messing with people, the Sumerians had reports of gods messing with people and wanting gold. Does that sound like NASA or bunch of privateers looking to make a buck?

But unfathomable technology? No. Just how far off are we from that level of tech? I think a few decades. 2018 the best tech we have is not far off from an ezekiel's spaceship. You may not have been paying attention but 2018 is the year for LENR (cold fusion) taking off. Commercial LENR means neutron radiation free reactors that don't need heavy shielding, they only need low energy x-ray shielding. It's as a big deal as the invention of the automobile and a lot of big companies are getting in on it.

Most of the commercial LENR reactor designs are modular for various reasons. Their maintenance if used in an engine would be an awful lot like the account from ezekiel, requiring replacing cores. "Then the cherub stretched out his hand from between the cherubim to the fire which was between the cherubim, took some and put it into the hands of the one clothed in linen, who took it and went out." Some people think that was a maintenance procedure Ezekiel observed. If that was a maintenance procedure, replacing hot core fuel casks would likely be a standard operation and that account fits LENR maintenance much better then nuclear. A robotic arm for extracting cores and a dude with a little low energy radiation shielding for being around the mostly shielded reactor is all you would need.

Also the "EM drive" is panning out. The EM drive is a massless drive that uses virtual particles for thrust. With a nuclear or LENR power source, you could get outside of the solar system. A NASA engineer came up with the idea seeing what would happen if a type of accelerometer was build kinda in reverse, lol. It's an interesting story. But the device only produces low power thrust so far, so it's only much good outside of the atmosphere, but in every test so far it seems to work and that means it's likely interstellar space will be in Earths reach in our lifetimes, along with the dangers of mass based projectiles.

And how about could we control something with three rotors and a spare? Come on, rotor flight control systems today are amazing! The simple robotic controlled flight toys children play with are complex enough to manage flight configurations like Ezekiel's.

What we're not so good at? We could use better gold coated nano-tech and stem cell tech for keeping people alive, but besides that we may be at the same level of aliens of Ezekiel caliber or better in just a few decades.

The right (or wrong) people and enough knowledge and accomplishing an Ezekiel level spaceship is hardly difficult to imagine, certainly not if you've up to date on the tech trends that matter.