Religious fundamentalism could soon be treated as mental illness

reply to post by ATSmediaPRO


awesome, religion has had a tight grip on Earth's Testes for thousands of years, it obviously hasn't brought us any closer to the solutions it promises, so I think after how ever many thousand years of failure to provide peace and true care for our fellow man we move on to a new idea.

Sorry, I'm pretty well one of those who will not bug the religious, try not to discuss it at all costs, but it really doesn't work.

reply to post by Hijinx

awesome, religion has had a tight grip on Earth's Testes for thousands of years, it obviously hasn't brought us any closer to the solutions it promises

Depending on what religion you're talking about, it never promises us solutions for everyone on earth. It teaches us that with mankind running the show, none of it will work. Maybe a course in human behavior would work better for you. It too will teach you that as long as mankind exists, there will always be division whether it's politics, cultural differences or something else altogether (it doesn't matter).

I think mostly (American) fundies will make a ruckus out of this.

Everybody has a right to believe. But loonies are loonies, regardless of their beliefs: UFOs or Jesus, doesn't matter.

What is so wrong in classifying them as such?

Now, moderate believers who question, use their own rational faculties, do not take scriptures are gospel/final truth and who can actually hold an intelligent conversation -- those are unlikely to be labelled as loonies.

Most of those have no trouble calling fundamental islamists as loonies -- what's the difference? The skin colour and the name of the guy? The text in the book?

They're all pretty much different versions of the same judeo-christian fairy tales.

Originally posted by Pathaka
I think mostly (American) fundies will make a ruckus out of this.

Everybody has a right to believe. But loonies are loonies, regardless of their beliefs: UFOs or Jesus, doesn't matter.

What is so wrong in classifying them as such?

Now, moderate believers who question, use their own rational faculties, do not take scriptures are gospel/final truth and who can actually hold an intelligent conversation -- those are unlikely to be labelled as loonies.

Most of those have no trouble calling fundamental islamists as loonies -- what's the difference? The skin colour and the name of the guy? The text in the book?

They're all pretty much different versions of the same judeo-christian fairy tales.

*sigh*

THIS " reality" is the Fake one

you got tricked - as so, so many others - to stand first on the False territory
and then condamn the réal one
without ány basis , but out of Proud Ignorance

man....are you In for a Surprise.... - soon..

"fairy tales"... sigh

reply to post by daskakik


Au contraire.

If it quacks, waddles, lays eggs, swims, bobs, flies, has duck DNA . . . like a duck . . . odds are, it's a duck.

Denying atheism's RELIGIOUS aspects, factors, traits does

NOT remove them.

reply to post by Pathaka


I think you may be a poorer student of history than you suppose.

History indicates that tyranny always EXPANDS the scope of the OUT-GROUP label . . . and narrows considerably the scope of the IN-GROUP label . . .

like the old saying . . . everyone's crazy but me & thee and I'm not too sure about thee . . .

That's an inexorable end result of those who carve out and implement tyranny over others. They become increasingly ingrown and restrictive . . . regardless . . . of the initial values.

reply to post by Hijinx


Nonsense.

Asserting that from a list of failures while ignoring the successes

is not good science; is not logical; is not honest; is not integrity and is not wise.

While I deplore religion, the RELATIONSHIP with Jesus as Creator God is priceless and makes a world of difference to individuals, marriages, families, neighborhoods, and broader contexts.

History has documented that.

Actually research has persistently shown that when church attendance increases, alcoholism, wife abuse, child abuse, violent crimes in an area dramatically decrease.

The problem Is in the heart of man.

The RELIGION OF SCIENTISM has merely made evil men more ruthless and efficient.

Hollow values with more powerful weapons of destruction IS a bad idea for individuals and society.

Originally posted by BlueMule
If fundamentalism is a mental/personality trait, then it should be able to be found among the religious and the non-religious alike.

So if religious fundamentalism is a mental illness, then so is secular fundamentalism.

Yes, Liberalism is a mental disorder

Originally posted by Hijinx
reply to post by ATSmediaPRO

 

awesome, religion has had a tight grip on Earth's Testes for thousands of years, it obviously hasn't brought us any closer to the solutions it promises, so I think after how ever many thousand years of failure to provide peace and true care for our fellow man we move on to a new idea.

Sorry, I'm pretty well one of those who will not bug the religious, try not to discuss it at all costs, but it really doesn't work.

So has politics, communal food farming, group sexual attitudes and science....shall we go the full intellectual luddite and remove them from existence too? No? How about we just murder or drug all the people benefiting from them?

I say 'don't blame the tool' when its the immaturity of the people using it that are the problem...

Ironically, in the Judaic bible instructions are given to " go into your closet to pray;'...not to ' stand on street corners' - so at least in this case, the direction of how to *practice* the religion - to keep your praying private - is being ignored, which again isn't the religions problem ( religion being just the set of shared beliefs) ...its the humans incapacity to practice what they idealize and believe in that are the problem.

Ro

Have you looked into what is being believed in a fundamental, babyish, literal, give your brain cells away to some papa authority figure, scriptures......primarily from some Christian beliefs, some Islam and some Hebrew beliefs?

They are crimes against humanity if anyone were to attempt to carry them out and incredible programming of children. Teaching children discernment and the ability to take the metaphor out of things, and compare spiritual writings, and their similarity is one thing, irregardless of whether or not a person believes in a figure: Christ, Buddha, Mohammud.

Something has to be done, to make it wrong on every level to train children into literal beliefs of that nature.

But imagine there are going to be some fine tuning in court, should this occur.

reply to post by Unity_99

Something has to be done, to make it wrong on every level to train children into literal beliefs of that nature

Something has to be done, to make it wrong on every level, to train children into literal beliefs of ANY nature. Belief's hijack intelligence.

reply to post by Visitor2012


I agree. The programming being done here is in direct violation of basic common law, thou shalt not harm, and constitutionally.

There is more to the programming, for government, media and our false altars of scientific theories that are not the correct ones, have been set aside by real down earth experiments and those overlooked, for profit. And a false educational system, that continues to feed us misinformation.

We need to really work at creating a better world, but only do this step by step, in our way, in our own world basically.

Also we have to do this together, no dictator good or bad, no power structure of anyone enforcing even a possible "good" way, even its put as a method of trial and error, to give it a shot...we need more transparency and more people involved.

And that's why this is something I would agree with to some degree, but without people waking up and getting on the same page, or even the same chapter, I can't imagine it won't be without alot of fine tuning in courts. There are too many people who have been allowed to be taken advantage of by the corrupt corps, leaders, fascist states and religious empires, that make far too much money off of lack of critical thinking in others.....Its not something you can just force.

And who is more mentally ill anyway, the children and adults programmed or the insane asshats programming them for profit?

reply to post by BO XIAN

Sure but it doesn't mean that the USSC labeled it as such. You are free to do so on your own but, don't put your words in other people's mouths.

Originally posted by Unity_99
Have you looked into what is being believed in a fundamental, babyish, literal, give your brain cells away to some papa authority figure, scriptures......primarily from some Christian beliefs, some Islam and some Hebrew beliefs?.

edit on 11-8-2013 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

If that is your belief, based on your perspective of the world and the impact of religions and scripture..I can see why you come to the conclusion you do. It's not though, the only perspective of the world, or of that impact let alone of scripture that there is to be had in the world....so it is not fact for everyone, just conclusions created by your mind, based on your belief, to suit your perspective. Whether others believe the same or not and share your view or not, is second to that.

However, if those of you who do have this belief, share it with each other, decide to gather together, cementing that belief into a doctrine of action and then choose to act upon it in disregard to the rights, will, beliefs and lives of others - and given you've openly stated you would do this, via acts of politic or forced removal of the rights and freedoms of others to believe as they wish - couldn't we reasonably consider your group of 'believers' to be a dangerous 'belief based group' and so, label you fundies and drug you too?


Ro

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by Visitor2012

 

I agree. The programming being done here is in direct violation of basic common law, thou shalt not harm, and constitutionally.

"Do no harm" is not "common law" at all so I'm not sure how this idea would go..or how far it could be implemented without force...as to LIVE is to harm. It's just part of the human experience. Telling ppl to do no harm is like saying go flap your arms and you will fly..not very useful or practical.

This (imo) is why forgiveness exists at all in the human experience. Because we know we will do harm, we know we do do it, even when we don't want to.

The way I see it is that somewhere along the line, some smart ppl figured out that ' thou shall not harm' was specious reasoning. More, it wasn't getting us anywhere but stuck in a loop of revolving crap and diminishing returns.It was a tool of controlling people by fear, through their pain, when what we really needed was a way to overcome this pain and the many forms of pain/shame/injustice/grief/sickness that causing harm creates -aka we needed a way to free ourselves of the cumulative weight of harm, to and on our consciousness, consciences and human spirit.

Everyone seems to want to move on and for the world to move forward....yet they don't seem to know how to do that or don't want to let go their bias long enough to apply the tools that make moving on possible because the source of that information or tool is anathema to whatever it is they want to keep. They want to keep their pain, or whatever it is they are holding on to, so they would prefer to attack the messenger in avoidance of applying the message, even to see if the tool provided might actually work! A sad thing really especially for those calling themselves 'free' people or ' scientific' people.

For me, to forgive IS to begin the process of moving forward....its as simple and as difficult as that. And in doing so - I 'repented' - which is basically a euphemism for ' I stopped sitting in my sh*t'.
So by stilling my pride and ego, engaging my intellectual curiosity, applying the knowledge and message of forgiveness, just as it was written by religious people, I became able to "turn away" ( which is what repent simply means) from my sh*t and what I had done as well as what I thought I had done, and stopped being myopic and self focused, and I moved on to focus my energy elsewhere.

In this sense, what the bible says is true for me, even though I am not a christian or religious person....in that forgiveness was a gift to my growing mind for just that reason..it did what it said it would - enabled me to move forward, when I apply it. What was written, the religions axiom that " the truth will set you free"..is therefore also proven to me - as when I applied forgiveness as a truth, which meant I acted on it as fact, not just lip serviced it, I did become free.

This interpretation of the scripture, how I choose to believe and practice a thing, worked really well for me..its simple..logical...and I have applied it so I know it works for me. Who are you to say this is 'wrong'? Who would you be if you drugged me as a fundi for believing this way and sharing the results of that action on belief earnestly with others? I am not "preaching Christianity' or a "religion' at all....I'm just saying hey this new tool in my toolbox of how to cope with being human actually worked!

Who do you think you are,or will become if you then force me by edict and politic to not educate my children that this tool is available to them? Hmm?

If you do plan on imposing on the inalienable rights of others to think and believe how they wish or may need to for their lives, you sure as hell better be 100% sure that you know exactly what form that ' how to' expresses itself from all 7 billion or so human perspectives first,and have a good argument as to why all those forms are wrong. Then you will need to know for certain via testing examination and application, that your HOW to think and believe really is a better way than every one else's HOW to.

You had also better be prepared for the consequences of playing god in the lives of billions of confused people who already knew their "how to" was right for them, innately, and be prepared to be god for those who have been forced to ignore that innate wisdom because you acting all godly demanded they do.

The reality is, that you wont find the truth of which is the best HOW to for you or anyone else, by drugging or debasing the voices of those whose HOW to is different to yours....only by letting go of your own fear, getting of your high horse and asking the question personally. If you want to be a masochist and sit in your sh*t and pain..go for it! Just don't expect others to join you there willingly. We've already learned how to change our own diapers.

The only thing I can claim as a person, is that my 'how to', works for me..what form 'how to' takes for you..is none of my business..aka ..I stopped _my_ fearing, walked _my_ talk and the result for me was that moving forward, became physically and literally possible and not just a concept I believed in.

There is another old saying of religions that works really well when in confronting and combating ignorance within our self and the world..that is : ' take the log out of your own eye before you point out the splinters in anothers'.

Try it ..apply it for a time..then maybe you can play god if you're still convinced of your rightness..


ymmv.


Ro

Oh to be sure one and all that its not the crazy faith healers they really want. Nope. That's just a means to get a toe hold into the thing. Find a nut or two and paint the whole thing with it.

Yea they are after much bigger issues.

reply to post by daskakik


I think that FUNCTIONALLY, the Supreme Court DID so label atheism because it FUNCTIONALLY treated it as EQUAL TO RELIGION.

THAT coupled with the features, aspects, factors atheism and it's practice has IN COMMON WITH other RELIGIONS, cinches the issue, for me.

Denial of those realities does NOT foster admiration on my part re the "reality testing" of atheists on the matter.

Actually, it calls into wholesale question their "objective" capacities to view life and reality "objectively, scientifically."

Originally posted by BO XIAN
Denial of those realities does NOT foster admiration on my part re the "reality testing" of atheists on the matter.

Denial of what the USSC actually did does NOT foster admiration on my part. It goes against the motto of ATS.

Say what you like but don't twist other's words to fit your opinion.

reply to post by daskakik


I'd think that the

denial of the functional equivalence

is what would go against DENY IGNORANCE.

. . . as well as denial of the list of features I noted that the religion of atheism shares in common with other religions.

Real objective, that! LOL.

reply to post by BO XIAN


You are free to think that but in the end it is just your opinion.

You can make any list you want and compare it to atheism and say look it just like religion all day long but, that isn't what the USSC did.