Religious fundamentalism could soon be treated as mental illness

reply to post by ItDepends


I see this as another method to control a population and make them bend to the will of those who either hold or wish to hold the power.

Many ways have been tried and always people will eventually rebel against it... usually a bit late but better late than never right?

In some cultures and periods of time lack of knowledge and education was a means to control the populace....

Now it is education that espouses pseudo psychology where you teach the young that a large group (who just so happens to be the most likely not to fall into line with what those who either are in power or wish to be in power want ) of people are "insane" and need serious mental help....

These are all means of psychological control... and all these means are detrimental to any society because it is always found later that these who are attempting the control do not have anyone's well being at heart.

We have seen this same thing in the soviet union.... it wasn't good then and it certainly wont be good now.

Originally posted by Guenter
I have always been convinced that any religion is a form of mental illness. And people wonder about the state of civilization and he world? The "nuts" are ruling and the 10% sane ones are called Atheists.

Exactly!!!!!

I was going to add but it has been said and so it shall be........


(freaking nut bag religious freaks)

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Or perhaps learn that everyone has the right to be different than you, believe different than you... and that is just fine!!! All of us can sound crazy.... it doesn't mean we are though... we're just different from each other.

We are unique, and can all contribute... when do we decide that instead of trying to inflict ourselves upon one another we should simply all contribute to a wonderful thing.... our world... we all have to live in it

Originally posted by OpinionatedB

I do not have to agree with everything everyone does or believes, all I have to do is see what is good in others and live my life the very best I can according to what I believe....

We cannot label people simply because we disagree with the way they think or the things they believe. Everyone has their own definition, and has to live according to it.

I agree entirely.

Everybody is free to believe what they like as long as it doesnt cause harm to others. All the better if those beliefs are honorable and directed at doing good things.

Although Im advocating for the doctors, Im fully aware of the failings of the health system. I watched my mothers care very closely after she had a big stroke. She was hospitalized (braindead by the doctors accounts) for a whole week, and being as she worked at the hospital as an administrator and was friends with nurses this allowed me to be at my mothers bedside all through the night, so i saw her care very closely. In the morning i would hand over bedside sitting to my sister who stayed during the day.

All during the first night(which the doctors said she would never make it through) I was talking to my mum about how the doctors dont know what they are talking about, how brain science is still very much unknown, I was desperate, I prayed, and was trying to offer words of encouragement(all the while having had an earlier discussion with my mother, about her requesting me never to let her be a vegetable, in the back of my mind).
Now the morning came and my sister took over, when I returned in the evening after sleeping, my sister told me my mum had awakened and in a daze said "wheres David, We beat them." (remember shes supposedly braindead) before she went back into her coma.

All throughout the week she would occasionally make movements as if she was uncomfortable, coming to consciousness for a few seconds try to speak, before going back into the coma.
I explained the moments to the Consultant, who bluntly replied that she was braindead and that wasnt possible, but I saw it with my own eyes.
On one of the later evenings in the week all of her brothers were also there, we all saw it, she tried to sit up and looked around the room at each person, then almost smiled before going back into a coma.

At the end of the week me and my sister were physically and emotionally exhausted, based on our mothers improved condition, took 1 day to rest and recuperate.
The following morning we got a phone call saying she had had another stroke and was deteriorating fast, me and my sister rushed to the hospital. When we got there it was like she had been on the first night, it looked very bad.
My sister went to my mum and said to her "Its okay, we will be okay, you can go now" and the very second she said that you could see the colour drain out of my mothers face.
It was a very profound moment, it was my moment of realisation that everything happens for a reason.
We were given a week to come to terms with the loss of our mother, without that week to talk to her and to be by her side, I think the sudden loss would have destroyed my sister. She was a wreck on the first night and I was stuck in a position of having to be there for my little sis, so had to control my own emotions which was a hard thing to do.
The care my mother received was terrible I saw all sorts of terrible practices and nasty nurses, i dropped my hat on the floor and when i picked it up it was covered with thick dust.
When my mothers work colleague nurse turned up on the monday, she was horrified to see the care my mother had received which was the best thing that happened, because she was immediately put on a proper ward and cleaned up.

The whole point of this long story is to show that even though I have had this first hand experience of the health service, I hate the health service, I hate the pharmaceutical companies.
But it does provide hope.

I shared more than I normally would have, Im sorry if its deemed off topic, but your convictions and honesty made me feel obliged to return some honest explanation as to where Im coming from.
I admire you.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

Or perhaps learn that everyone has the right to be different than you, believe different than you... and that is just fine!!! All of us can sound crazy.... it doesn't mean we are though... we're just different from each other.

We are unique, and can all contribute... when do we decide that instead of trying to inflict ourselves upon one another we should simply all contribute to a wonderful thing.... our world... we all have to live in it

Well said, Well Said. Doesn't it really boil down to this. Again, we have people trying to put-down, label, less than fit, strange, different, don't fit in, disagree, can't have this, ridicule, admonish, queer, unusual, mentally ill..........sounds like a George Carlin skit. The problem with people is:


Let's just continue to hate each other, kill each other, abuse someone, cheat, lie, steal and call people names....seems to have worked so well for the last 2,000 years. As a species, if we don't wake up and start to have compassion, tolerance, understanding and caring.......I doubt very much we will be here another 2,000 years or less. Because the last two mentally ill people left standing will simply kill each other.....simply because you had a problem with what the believed in!!! God Help Us!!

reply to post by gotya



Yeah, us freaking nut bag religious freaks....

It is the Muslim world who contributed the knowledge of Algebra to the World

Many thinkers who were Christian as well.... although I cant think of any and google did not seem much help, so I will leave it to the Christians to embellish upon their world contributions, and leave us all with this:

"Lost History" shows how these great forgotten empirical thinkers of Islam helped lay the foundation for the rise of Europe and the West, and today’s global digital civilization. Whether good or bad, virtually all of today’s science, technology, medicine and all the material benefits that accrue from it has its roots in the empirical method. This method, which we know as modern science, was first articulated by the Greeks, carried to full flower by the Muslims, and then passed on to Europe to complete the modern world.

I am the most evil of all those you wish to label.. I am a Muslim

reply to post by ItDepends


I couldn't agree with you more!

reply to post by OneManArmy


I admire you too. Thank you for sharing that..... Its nice to meet you

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by gotya

 

Yeah, us freaking nut bag religious freaks....

It is the Muslim world who contributed the knowledge of Algebra to the World

Many thinkers who were Christian as well.... although I cant think of any and google did not seem much help, so I will leave it to the Christians to embellish upon their world contributions, and leave us all with this:

"Lost History" shows how these great forgotten empirical thinkers of Islam helped lay the foundation for the rise of Europe and the West, and today’s global digital civilization. Whether good or bad, virtually all of today’s science, technology, medicine and all the material benefits that accrue from it has its roots in the empirical method. This method, which we know as modern science, was first articulated by the Greeks, carried to full flower by the Muslims, and then passed on to Europe to complete the modern world.

I am the most evil of all those you wish to label.. I am a Muslim

I'm not here to judge. You call yourself a muslim, a follower to prophet Muhammad i presume. Sunni or Shia?

However, with your last post....it seems like you want to pound your chest, elate over what 'your kind' have done and have contributed. You bring up history....look my friend, it is 2013, what are muslim's doing to try and better the world, their fellow inhabitants of the planet, today!!! and what are you going to do to improve tomorrow.....what is the muslim, the follower of muhammad doing today to make the world better? When you're done beating your chest about how great you are, then please fall to your knees and beg your god for forgiveness over your ignorance, intolerance and ego.....for you are not what a Greater Power would want to represent his teachings of love, tolerance and humbleness. Tough talk I know, but, you needed to hear it. You now have a choice....rant back and tell me even how greater you are and how small I am (you know nothing about me) or maybe think, be honest and admit that muslims, today, are not doing enough to help the world while they lower their heads while brothers and sisters scream Jihad and murder innocent people.

Edit: My final point on this thread is, that for me personally, I do not endorse or follow any organized religion or unorganized beliefs such as atheists. My beliefs have evolved simply knowing that I am not God, and that their is something Greater than I that has an Intelligent Design and wants us to love one and other, help each other and stop these endless shouting matches about who's god is better than the other god....now that is mental illness for sure!!! Peace!!! ID!!

reply to post by ItDepends


I am shia.... Twelver...

As far as the Muslim world it has hit a point where its more like a dark ages..... as far as the wahabis, I stand against everything they are and do.... they are against Islam itself and are trying to destroy it... attempting to erase the teachings of the Prophet, attempting to erase the truth of Islam from the face of the earth....

Most, even sunnis, believe that.... the wahabis are destroying islam out of hatred for Islam itself, and God in particular....

all that is long long long discussion and as such really far from the spirit of this thread I think

Yes, I AM proud to be Muslim, I am also proud to have a Christian husband, and proud to contribute what I can to better our world....

No one should be ashamed of their beliefs.... I do not need to hang my head because of what some people, who claim to be muslim yet lie, do in attempts to gain power and control..... their actions are not mine.... in the Muslim community I do not hang my head either because I married outside my faith, or because of what Christians have done for power and control....

Their power grab is not on any of us.... its on those who do it

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by ItDepends

 

I am shia.... Twelver...

As far as the Muslim world it has hit a point where its more like a dark ages..... as far as the wahabis, I stand against everything they are and do.... they are against Islam itself and are trying to destroy it... attempting to erase the teachings of the Prophet, attempting to erase the truth of Islam from the face of the earth....

Most, even sunnis, believe that.... the wahabis are destroying islam out of hatred for Islam itself, and God in particular....

all that is long long long discussion and as such really far from the spirit of this thread I think

Yes, I AM proud to be Muslim, I am also proud to have a Christian husband, and proud to contribute what I can to better our world....

No one should be ashamed of their beliefs.... I do not need to hang my head because of what some people, who claim to be muslim yet lie, do in attempts to gain power and control..... their actions are not mine.... in the Muslim community I do not hang my head either because I married outside my faith, or because of what Christians have done for power and control....

Their power grab is not on any of us.... its on those who do it

When I mentioned lowering your head, it was not indicating shame, but the tradition of the muslim. I have no problem with you being a muslim or a shia. But Islam is fractured among many followers of Muhammad. The wahabis' as you say are gaining more and more control....focusing on the basic fundamental beliefs of the basic origins of the qu'ran. Because your faith, Islam is fractured, and many/most factions, both sunni and shia are not vocal or willing to condemn the the fanatical approach of the wahabis', then you are denying your own faith by not standing up and saying what is right and what is wrong.....you simply, quietly bow your heads and pray, but do nothing to repudiate your brothers and sisters who profess their love and devotion to islam, by killing innocent people. That is not what any god would want to happen nor wish true believers to allow....did he not give his life for you...so that you may live?

reply to post by ItDepends



I just want to add. Its important to know who your true enemies are, because they are the enemy of us all.

reply to post by ItDepends


Much more condemnation goes on than you realize or imagine.... Wahabis are gaining political followers because of this vicious circle that is going on, in extremism some see strength, strength to stand up to those trying to control us all...

we, as humans have a tendency to see strength when it is really a weakness trying to disguise itself....

True strength is to hold on to the truth no matter what the cost.... Imam Hussain [as] showed us this.... it appears most however do not have true strength....

No matter what though, bridges have to be built, all of us need to realize who and what our enemy is, and who and what that enemy is not... or we will all be destroyed, as you indicated earlier....

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by ItDepends

 

I just want to add. Its important to know who your true enemies are, because they are the enemy of us all.

Can't disagree with that, always a good thing to know who your 'true' enemies are!! For Sure! However, it also helps to have friends that do not stand or kneel silently and make themselves known and not just another figure in a crowd of potential enemies.....how does one distinguish a muslim wearing a body belt of bombs from a muslim who is peaceful? How does one know? Especially when the peaceful ones remain silent. Silence is cooperation with the enemy, for a true ally of peace and love, will stand and say this is wrong, >>> these people do not speak for us! Much needs to change in the muslim world. and it can only change within. If the shi'a and the sunni's remain silient, you will meet your day of demise....from within, not from your ally's.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by ItDepends

 

Much more condemnation goes on than you realize or imagine.... Wahabis are gaining political followers because of this vicious circle that is going on, in extremism some see strength, strength to stand up to those trying to control us all...

we, as humans have a tendency to see strength when it is really a weakness trying to disguise itself....

True strength is to hold on to the truth no matter what the cost.... Imam Hussain [as] showed us this.... it appears most however do not have true strength....

No matter what though, bridges have to be built, all of us need to realize who and what our enemy is, and who and what that enemy is not... or we will all be destroyed, as you indicated earlier....

You say: "Much more condemnation goes on than you realize or imagine" that has to be true...because for most of us fighting this battle, we honestly see none. We see no opposition, we hear no voices of decent, we only hear and see silence. The cost will be the demise of the shi'a and the sunni's and Islam will continue to be transformed into a Radical, Fanatical based ideology not based upon a religious view, but a political view that adheres to death and destruction based upon a delusional and misrepresentation of both the qu'ran and Mohammed. Either do or die!! Sometimes truth doesn't always win especially when it is silent or appears silent.

reply to post by ItDepends


perhaps because your government controlled media only wants you to see silence, so they refuse to broadcast to you the noise

I sent to you in messaging some links.... perhaps helpful.... hard to find only english things, you will see a lot in the last one though, you may wish to read that first....

PS. Muslims have been for a long time asking the west to stop funding the wahabbis.... no one listens

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by ItDepends

 

perhaps because your government controlled media only wants you to see silence, so they refuse to broadcast to you the noise

I sent to you in messaging some links.... perhaps helpful.... hard to find only english things, you will see a lot in the last one though, you may wish to read that first....

PS. Muslims have been for a long time asking the west to stop funding the wahabbis.... no one listens

edit on 10-8-2013 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

Perhaps, however you would agree I hope, that in this age of communication, there are many outlets inwhich to receive information, news and certainly altering views. Please, my argument is not with you, if you could even call it that, we've been very courteous and civil. I can only speak for myself, but I do not see many Arabic media outlets reporting views that counter this view which is widely held in the muslim community, and which seems to be ganing more and more strength in the muslim world.

The Muslim Brotherhood is financed by contributions from its members, who are required to allocate a portion of their income to the movement. Some of these contributions are from members who work in Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich countries. The Brotherhood's credo was and is, "Allah is our objective; the Quran is our law, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations."

This is what I would say is perceived to be the widely held belief for the entire muslim community which I realize is incorrect. But, I then also have to say, this perception grows also out of the perceived silence, lack of admonishment from the other sects within the muslim world. Unless this 'perception' changes, for many of the world, it is difficult to see the significant differences you speak of in the muslim theological/political/cultural world that we live in.

With that said, we have gone slightly off topic here. LOL. So I will leave you with wishing you Peace, Health, and Happiness and Love!!

reply to post by ItDepends


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Read all omy posts in that thread, read all of them....

Just because you see that, many many blank spots.... does not mean nothing was said... It simply means the person those words were intended for did read them.

It has been a wonderful conversation, and I look forward to speaking to you again! Peace and Love, and respect!!

NWO agenda brainwashing people to hate religion when everyone can be fundamental with their beliefs.

A perspective to consider is "what is really being targeted by this announcement?"
I am compelled to ask: Is (religious) fundamentalism just a convenient patsy?
I look at a revealing video like this:
www.youtube.com...=51
and I can't help but think ppl are just being led into giving up even more of their rights and personal power...for a scam. The people who created the scam are the people that are truly mentally ill.

Ro

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by gotya

 

Yeah, us freaking nut bag religious freaks....

It is the Muslim world who contributed the knowledge of Algebra to the World

Many thinkers who were Christian as well.... although I cant think of any and google did not seem much help, so I will leave it to the Christians to embellish upon their world contributions, and leave us all with this:

"Lost History" shows how these great forgotten empirical thinkers of Islam helped lay the foundation for the rise of Europe and the West, and today’s global digital civilization. Whether good or bad, virtually all of today’s science, technology, medicine and all the material benefits that accrue from it has its roots in the empirical method. This method, which we know as modern science, was first articulated by the Greeks, carried to full flower by the Muslims, and then passed on to Europe to complete the modern world.

I am the most evil of all those you wish to label.. I am a Muslim

Hello OpinionatedB assalamu 'alaykum,

I don't think you are evil at all for simply being Muslim. To be evil is to act criminally. A criminal is a criminal whatever cloak he is wearing at the time and crime is not limited to one subset of human kind. I do think the Islamic religion has been used, as a patsy, and has been turned in on itself so those same people doing the using, can create monsters by appealing to the lowest denominator of the human psyche in all humans - fear.
The only evil on this planet I see are those who are using power in these ways, who are manipulating it in this way.
When you step back enough, the cycle of modern history shows these evil cowards and their groups have, time and time again, twisted and used the Judaic religions, pagan religions as well as groups of Buddhist believers and atheists - to manipulate human beings into becoming the monsters they wanted and needed them to be at the time.This is how they get their power through the ages. This is how they keep it.

In order to become an absolute power over people, you have to first try muddy the waters, if not to convince people outright that there already isn't one, and the best most effective way to do that, is via the predictability of human fear. Utilizing the worst and basest awareness's of human psychology, biology and behavior, it's not that hard to create the monster you need for the power grab you intend.


Ro.