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The map everyone SHOULD be looking at

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posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 09:16 PM
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Located by, suprisingly, Michael Moore.

Linky Linky

So all this talk of North vs. South, a nation divided, secession etc... all needs to stop. You're only adding to a problem that would not exist otherwise. Deny Ignorance, don't replace it with your own brand.



[edit on 11-10-2004 by Esoterica]




posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 09:19 PM
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That is a nice find!!! And it shows more accuracy because of the (population) factors involved.



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 09:24 PM
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There is more to division and divisiveness than simple geography. Ask the Bush administration spinmeisters, and ask politically aware people what they think of the other side of the political fence. The DSA is here to stay, for a time.



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 09:26 PM
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I agree...

People prefer to see things in black & white and ignore the grey because of laziness and convenience.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by TheBandit795]



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
There is more to division and divisiveness than simple geography.


Not according to the media and 90% of the posters here, which is why I found it...pertinent. Look at the map. it isn't "Us" and "Them". It isn't The North and The South. It isn't the elitist bourgeoisie and the proletariat. It's people having different opinions. It's people arguing. It people not agreeing with their neighbors.

In other world, it's real effin' life.

[edit on 11-10-2004 by Esoterica]



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 09:29 PM
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Awesome find! It's like a demographics map...gone wild!



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 09:30 PM
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Thats neat. Its another nice and accurate presprective of the election outcome. Nice find.



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 09:30 PM
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Guys, I didn't really 'find' anything, I just typed in michaelmoore.com



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 09:32 PM
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Just looks like a giant tropical fish to me?


Puts things more in perspective. Definately not buy a fish now...



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by Esoterica

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
There is more to division and divisiveness than simple geography.


Not according to the media and 90% of the posters here, which is why I found it...pertinent. Look at the map. it isn't "Us" and "Them". It isn't The North and The South. It isn't the elitist bourgeoisie and the proletariat. It's people having different opinions. It's people arguing. It people having different opinions than your neighbor.

In other world, it's real effin' life.



You seem to agree with me, that it's more than geography.

It was the false "president" of the United States himself who said "You're either with us or against us" - the most divisive statement possible - and no -one in the admin is surprised that people go away and obey.

Interested in your sources for "90% of the members here", you must have done some good quantitative research!



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
It was the false "president" of the United States himself who said "You're either with us or against us" - the most divisive statement possible - and no -one in the admin is surprised that people go away and obey.

I don't really get what you're trying to say. That people, you know, oppsoed what the President did? Can't say that really comes as a shock to me.

Interested in your sources for "90% of the members here", you must have done some good quantitative research!

I was being hyperbolic. Maybe I should have said "Many" and "Nearly all of the posts I have read" instead. Mistook you for someone with an imagination



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 10:07 PM
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Check out the new star spangled banner here...



Thanks to thestickingpoint graphic artist and bloggist for the implementation of a true but unfortunate symbolic vision.


May you be good to your neighbors no matter their skin/political color or creed. Treat them oppositely to how the Bush admin treats its growing race of enemies.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by MaskedAvatar]



posted on Nov, 10 2004 @ 10:09 PM
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Great post Eso.

What confounds me the most is that the blue areas (not the states) are mostly large metropolitans.

Are the inner cities in such bad shape that they would want the "liberal giva-away" programs largely proposed by the Democratic Party?

There's got to be a solution. It's entirely my speculation that people in the inner cities are depressed by the situation of having to be on welfare (or paying outrageous rent) and other government programs (or constantly on the guard for criminal elements that find easy prey in large crowds) due to the lack of jobs and the inability to relocate to areas that may have a wider variety of employment to choose from. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that everyone in larger cities are on welfare. From my visits to large metropolitan areas, it looks like a rat-race that I'd rather not be a part of.

I believe that instead of all the "he said, she said" crap that's become all too common here on ATS, we, as members, can start discussing possible solutions (sensible) and stop all the "go for the throat" politics that doesn't accomplish anything.

So many people give the government too much power when the power is on a piece of paper with your name on it. That piece of paper is called your Voter Registration card.

Come on people. It (voter registration card) and the pen is more powerful than all the armies and and all the weapons these armies possess.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 12:13 AM
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How about some illumination?


Originally posted by Intelearthling
Great post Eso.

What confounds me the most is that the blue areas (not the states) are mostly large metropolitans.


Why would that confound you? It's an obvious extension of current party philosophies that rural areas go red and urban go blue. The Democratic Platform is one of Social Responsibility that recognizes diversity and harmony, promoting the good of all. The current Republican Platform is one of Personal Responsiblity that (while noble in it's broadest sense) works best in homogeneous environments, right down to "moral values."

One says we're in this together; the other you're on your own.



Are the inner cities in such bad shape that they would want the "liberal giva-away" programs largely proposed by the Democratic Party?


It's more like the inner cities are in such good shape, they're still willing to subsidize red areas. Don't take that for granted. Look at who really lives off of who, no matter what the bumper stickers lining the rural/suburban sprawl would indicate. I realize some of the most needy in America are congested in urban centers, but so are the most affluent and overwhelmingly they still vote for the social good over their own selfish interests.

The white flight of the 70's with urban projects to merely "house" the poor is long since over. Re-gentrification was not just the norm, but the rage throughout the 90's. City planning is now an art form of the highest order creating fully integrated, functioning communities of upper and lower income with employment, transportation and recreational opportunities for all. It's quite nice really...if one has an open mind.



There's got to be a solution. It's entirely my speculation that people in the inner cities are depressed by the situation of having to be on welfare (or paying outrageous rent) and other government programs (or constantly on the guard for criminal elements that find easy prey in large crowds) due to the lack of jobs and the inability to relocate to areas that may have a wider variety of employment to choose from. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that everyone in larger cities are on welfare. From my visits to large metropolitan areas, it looks like a rat-race that I'd rather not be a part of.


The solution is to stop thinking that way. Cities fuel this country. Not rural "rest stops" centered around a Wal-Mart (which apparently is most of where federal funds still go). The ideological divide (which clearly does exist) is based on nothing more than false perceptions, fear of the unknown and something to do with enforcing morals.

There was a time, not so so long ago, that everything was reversed. Rural areas were blue, urban red. The concept of you're on your own suited the city elite just fine, while disenfrachised farmers and rural "pioneers" couldn't make an honest dollar or get electricity to save their life. Frankly, there was no rural middle class before the Democratic Party engineered one over the past century.

You're welcome.


But now "morals" have entered into it (or at least the perception of morals), and the flawed concept of "self reliance" to the exclusion of the greater good that made this country great.

Have you bit the hand that fed your Grandfather lately? If you voted Republican, you did.


[edit on 11-11-2004 by RANT]



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 06:21 AM
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wowzer thats a really good way to look at the situation. just think if the north east, and california were to pull out of the union then the entire system would collapse and we would prevail! now lets see where is the most money come from? probably cali and NY so we must know a thing or two about capatalism so why is it we have been completely thrown out of the loop??? i think this democracy is not fair anymore, the system is broke, words and freedom only mend what is definable by the majority, so being unable to crack open the roots of the system we are a loss for cause. does CSPAN tell us the whole story?



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 06:28 AM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
May you be good to your neighbors no matter their skin/political color or creed. Treat them oppositely to how the Bush admin treats its growing race of enemies.

Nothing like calling for unity while denigrating those you disagree with to keep the question marks floating over our heads.


Are you planning to take your own advice?



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 07:02 AM
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rorschach-wize, I see a parrot, on a perch.

Demographic-wize, I see an opportunity to gerrymander the WHOLE US..
Why don't we redraw the borders? Re-sort the electoral college, until whomever you prefer, becomes the winner..We could do this every 8 years or so..just to make it fair. Some years I live in Nevada, some years it's California. OR NOT.

As it stands, Bush won. Looks like a lot of it was regional campaign strategy.
Thats how you do it when the country's population is split down the middle.

All and all it's an interesting analysis.



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 07:07 AM
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posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 07:21 AM
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The artist formerly known as, the artist formerly known as Prince will be happy to know that.

However, you make a good point, we are ALL in this together. play a little nicer,
And maybe "stuff" will get done.

[edit on 11-11-2004 by spacedoubt]



posted on Nov, 11 2004 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by Intelearthling
Great post Eso.

What confounds me the most is that the blue areas (not the states) are mostly large metropolitans.

Are the inner cities in such bad shape that they would want the "liberal giva-away" programs largely proposed by the Democratic Party?



Maybe it's because in the cities, the population is more condensed, it's harder to avoid having the consequences of severe proverty from entering into your conscious state? I mean if you are aware that the kid down the street without food is liable to come into your store and kill you for your money, you might be more apt to accept the idea that maybe a way should be found to at least make sure the kids have food on the tables, regardless of the circumstances surrounding their plight. And, well, having starving homeless people standing outside your business begging for food is kind of bad for business. Also, kids from these rural areas seem to tend to flock to some of these big cities in hope of a better opportunity, don't find it, and well, they need help.

[edit on 11-11-2004 by dawnstar]





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