Obama Tells Schools Not To Discipline Black Students For Bad Behavior

Originally posted by DogMeat
This has got to be a joke....
Matters not what color you are, if yer a Scre up, then yer a screw up...Period.

It matters when you're the first black POTUS and you're trying to right the wrongs of past generations!

At least that's how it appears.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

 

Moving past the fact that he pisses you off regardless - how is this executive order divisive?

Did you read it?

All of it?

In your own words - for someone who just isn't seeing it - please explain

That’s easy! Read the first damned paragraph!!

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, to restore the country to its role as the global leader in education, to strengthen the Nation by improving educational outcomes for African Americans of all ages, and to help ensure that all African Americans receive an education that properly prepares them for college, productive careers, and satisfying lives, it is hereby ordered as follows:

www.whitehouse.gov...

The POTUS is the leader of ALL AMERICANS not just AFRICAN AMERICANS!!

Divisive!!

If it was Bush’s EO and we changed “African” to “white” there would be a national uproar!! WHY?? Because it’s divisive!! This is the double standard we have in America today and I’m quite sick of it!

Originally posted by Garkiniss

No, I'm considering the variables. Huge difference.

No you're considering ONE variable, and holding to it.
And that makes all the difference in the world.

1. The discipline could be steeper based on attitudes in the principal's office

2. The discipline could be steeper based on whether they were repeat offenders

3. The discipline could be steeper because the disciplinary staff are racist cowards

You're right. It does make all the difference.

Which we very well may already have.

That's your opinion... again.

You obviously don't know the difference between an opinion and speculation. Nothing I have said has been "I believe this person acted like x because of y.". It has been "Well we don't really know because there are loose ends that haven't been explored by these case studies".

You're the one with the opinion. I have expressed none, I have simply admitted that I don't know and neither do you. You then get all pissy about your supposed "opinion", which you really have no warrant having because you don't know the variables.

For someone who claimed to have a 166 IQ a couple pages ago, you sure do misuse the word "irony" a whole lot.

If irony is the incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the expected result, then a thread designed to point out racism within the Obama adminstration, thus attempting to take the moral high ground by the GOP, that instead turns into a soap box for racist Republicans, is the very definition of irony.

Sorry, Sunshine, but maybe it's you that doesn't understand irony.

You're not very bright. The OP expresses a dislike for Obama's EO. The OP did not state any partisan alignment whatsoever; that was you trying to make it about left vs. right.

Also the original poster is black -- there's your irony.

Want some more? Cause this EO is pretty exclusive in the minority it intends to "protect". Even by the case studies you provided, hispanics are just as much afflicted by this apparent problem as African Americans. I'm sure gay youths are as well; especially in non-secular schools. Where's their protection? Oops, they aren't African American -- Obama doesn't care. Pretty exclusive with his minority protections, isn't he? THE IRONY OF THIS EO!

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

 

Moving past the fact that he pisses you off regardless - how is this executive order divisive?

Did you read it?

All of it?

In your own words - for someone who just isn't seeing it - please explain

That’s easy! Read the first damned paragraph!!

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, to restore the country to its role as the global leader in education, to strengthen the Nation by improving educational outcomes for African Americans of all ages, and to help ensure that all African Americans receive an education that properly prepares them for college, productive careers, and satisfying lives, it is hereby ordered as follows:

www.whitehouse.gov...

The POTUS is the leader of ALL AMERICANS not just AFRICAN AMERICANS!!

Divisive!!

Let me see if I can explain this to you:

There is a gap between test scores of African-American students and white students. African-American students score significantly less than whites. It is a real problem. This makes it more difficult for the African-American to succeed. This gap goes all the way back to elementary school. Is it wrong to see if we can solve this problem? Is it wrong for the President to try to solve this problem? This affects the whole economy, thus the whole country. Get it?

Christopher Jencks and Meredith Phillips, editors of the 1998 book The Black-White Test Score Gap, point out in their introduction that African Americans score lower than whites on vocabulary, reading and math tests, as well as on tests such as the SAT. This gap appears before kindergarten and persists into adulthood. The average black student scores below 70 to 80 percent of the white students of the same age,

Researchers like Jencks stress the importance of closing the gap. Blacks who acquire the skills measured by these tests do better economically, he told FRONTLINE. He also argues that closing the black-white test score gap would affect more meaningful change than affirmative action policies in college admissions which are currently being challenged on constitutional grounds. "You wouldn't need to have racial preferences for admissions to elite colleges," Jencks said, "if you actually had candidates with comparable test scores."

www.pbs.org...

This E.O. is not being divisive or racist. It is about trying to bring everyone up to the same level. Closing the educational gap will be good for everyone.

reply to post by kaylaluv

There is a gap between test scores of African-American students and white students. African-American students score significantly less than whites. It is a real problem. This makes it more difficult for the African-American to succeed. This gap goes all the way back to elementary school. Is it wrong to see if we can solve this problem? Is it wrong for the President to try to solve this problem? This affects the whole economy, thus the whole country. Get it?

Excuse me!! African Americans attend the same class as ALL OTHER RACES. If their test scores are lower, that’s not the fault of the school or the educational system, and special exceptions shouldn’t be made to favor one race over another. That is divisive!

It’s called PUBLIC school….not African American school or White American school or Latino American school.

If you haven’t noticed, public education in this country is bad for ALL races. How about we address THAT issue before we selectively nurture one race and hold their hand through the diploma mill?

reply to post by beezzer

Obviously there are race issues, ergo; the presidents decision to conduct the EO.

Finally...thank you beezzer - finally

Yes - there are race issues - that's one of the first honest and intelligent statements from the anti-Obama team that I've read in this thread

Who is responsible for the education system?

Teachers Union?
Secretary of Education?

Where does the buck stop?

I know you'd love for it to stop with Obama - because one simply cannot miss how much you loathe the man :-)

But - if we are all honest, and we want to have a real discussion about the things that are wrong with the school system (and maybe our society in general) how can we not factor in that, yes, here in real life USA - we have race issues

And it didn't start with Obama. Who then - the liberals? :-)

Well, we also have class issues in this country - and an ongoing war against the poor - who do we blame for that? The liberals? :-)

I know what to expect - the black and white version of reality is so much easier - and more satisfying

This EO simply doesn't say what people want it to say - but, no matter - we can just skip right past that and use it to bash the president - and liberals in general. If a conservative had issued the same EO we wouldn't even be talking about this right now - would we. But, would a conservative ever really address the issue of race - in the first place?

Serious question beez - would they, could they - and why or why not - if it is in fact a real issue?

What's your honest opinion - do black kids always get a fair shake in the school system do you think? Do you think it's wrong for the president to address the situation - and try to at least shine a light on this, oh, let's just call it disparity

I know this is ATS - and gang wars are ever so much fun. But, seriously, this situation is more than just liberals and conservatives fighting over who gets to control the ball. These are real kids - with very real futures

Shouldn't we be able to rise above this nonsense - at least some of the time?

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

There is a gap between test scores of African-American students and white students. African-American students score significantly less than whites. It is a real problem. This makes it more difficult for the African-American to succeed. This gap goes all the way back to elementary school. Is it wrong to see if we can solve this problem? Is it wrong for the President to try to solve this problem? This affects the whole economy, thus the whole country. Get it?

Excuse me!! African Americans attend the same class as ALL OTHER RACES. If their test scores are lower, that’s not the fault of the school or the educational system, and special exceptions shouldn’t be made to favor one race over another. That is divisive!

It’s called PUBLIC school….not African American school or White American school or Latino American school.

If you haven’t noticed, public education in this country is bad for ALL races. How about we address THAT issue before we selectively nurture one race and hold their hand through the diploma mill?

edit on 10-8-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

Exactly. We're going to have to change it to "Public School Minus Hispanics" when this EO goes through. Their test scores are hurting, too, but apparently we're only helping the African Americans.

And what about white kids who have hurting test scores? Should they not get extra help too to prepare them for college?

No child left behind, unless he's not black.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by DogMeat
This has got to be a joke....
Matters not what color you are, if yer a Scre up, then yer a screw up...Period.

OR.... if you get treated like a screw up, then you become a screw up....

No...if your home training screwed up. ie single parenthood, parents didn't value education, raised in inpoverished negative, crime infested environment, and a part of your family generation who lives and dies on the welfare plantation, then most likely you will be a screwup.

reply to post by kaylaluv

There is a gap between test scores of African-American students and white students. African-American students score significantly less than whites. It is a real problem. This makes it more difficult for the African-American to succeed.

Tell me how your statement jives with this quote:

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

www.brainyquote.com...

Dr. King advocated for personal responsibility and equality, not special treatment and favoritism for blacks.

Originally posted by supremecommander

Originally posted by guohua

African Americans lack equal access to highly effective teachers and principals, safe schools, and challenging college-preparatory classes, and they disproportionately experience school discipline and referrals to special education. African American student achievement not only lags behind that of their domestic peers by an average of two grade levels, but also behind students in almost every other developed nation. Over a third of African American students do not graduate from high school on time with a regular high school diploma, and only four percent of African American high school graduates interested in college are college-ready across a range of subjects. An even greater number of African American males do not graduate with a regular high school diploma, and African American males also experience disparate rates of incarceration.

They don't lack Equal Access, most don't try to learn any more. They know that they can live off the Government tit.

Way to generalize black students by saying that most don't try to learn, or know that they can exist off of the government's tits.

When I was in school, I was going to class, I carried an above 3.0 GPA in both High School and College, I graduated college and earned a degree, and currently I am not living off of the government's tit but actually working for myself and earning a living. So for you to sit here and say something like that about myself, and other black people that actually have done the opposite of what you've spouted, leads me to believe that you don't get out much outside of your sphere of ignorance, or you're a flat out racist. Maybe both.

I feel sorry for you, that you look upon people you don't even know with such scorn and hatred. I'm glad my life isn't sad like that.

edit on 10-8-2013 by supremecommander because: (no reason given)

Guohua was not talking about ALL blacks. Why do people like to 'attempt' to deconstruct a statement by saying. "not ALL blacks are like that"....

In intellectual discourse, it is KNOWN without saying that the person is not referring to the entire group...the are only describing a large portion of the group, or the portion of it that they have observed. A person does not need to be distracted by the argument from trying to listen out for the words "most" or "all"....

You KNOW that they were not talking about ALL black people; how could they have been? Its not possible for them to know ALL black people, so please stay focused on their main argument.

Rumors of what the next Executive Order will be like!!!!

There are rumors out there that say the next E.O. will force states and local authorities to prosecute only a certain amount of black-skinned perpetrators or face federal discrimination charges. This means that next time if an African-American man hijacks your car you may want to think twice about calling the cops because they'll ask you before hand about the bipedal subspecies the perpetrator was, given the fact that federal law says that the black African-American primate bipedal subspecies are exempt from prosecution after the federal established quota for prosecution has been met already and no more black-skinned perpetrators can be prosecuted anymore.

I know, the above paragraph was quite cynical but it was called for based on what this thread is about. Folks!!! We are one step closer to consider African-American people (A.K.A. community, collective) officially an inferior bipedal subspecies at a federal level!!!! That people, regardless of country of origin, as long as their skin is black from African descent are considered to be an inferior bipedal subspecies. Why, one may ask?? Considered this rationale, much the same way one is forced to live with the injuries received after a brutal attack by a mob of angry chimpanzees in their natural habitat, one can't say anything or complain about it because it is considered to be acceptable by law the animal behaved according to its nature, hence prosecuting the alleged chimpanzee perpetrators will never be considered.

What is wrong with not liking what these criminals do?? I keep asking myself, I don't care if they are black, white, latino or whatever. Criminal and wrong-doers alike use the color of their skin to shield themselves from prosecution and now with this law I foresee an even more criminal-intended black-skinned collective, I hope I am wrong because these people's children go to school with my kids. I think the African-American community as a collective have a very serious public relations problem. I, for one, don't know anybody or know anybody that knows anybody that gives a rat's ass about doing something about it.

On a personal note, I don't think I am a "racist" individual. As a matter of fact, I resent the use of the word "racist" itself on the grounds that it is rather ambiguous when addressing these "social" issues we have.

reply to post by seabag

If it was Bush’s EO and we changed “African” to “white” there would be a national uproar!! WHY?? Because it’s divisive!! This is the double standard we have in America today and I’m quite sick of it!

Amendment to Executive Order 13125, Increasing Participation of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders in Federal Programs

Are you saying that The President of the United States shouldn't address specific problems - specifically - ever?

You should read through the lists (many, many - so many lists...from both conservatives and liberal presidents) of Executive Orders past and present - see for yourself how all this goes

edit to add: that was one from Bush - pretty specific - and not for the benefit of all Americans

another edit to add - that it actually is meant to benefit all Americans - though I don't really hold out much hope that people can see it for what it is

Originally posted by supremecommander

Originally posted by neformore
OK.

Hand up... who here actually read the order?

Heres a link directly to it.

Executive Order -- White House Initiative on Educational Excellence for African Americans

What it ACTUALLY says, is this

(vi) reducing the dropout rate of African American students and helping African American students graduate from high school prepared for college and a career, in part by promoting a positive school climate that does not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools, and by supporting successful and innovative dropout prevention and recovery strategies that better engage African American youths in their learning, help them catch up academically, and provide those who have left the educational system with pathways to reentry;

It most certainly does not say "don't discipline black students for bad behaviour"

edit on 10/8/13 by neformore because: (no reason given)

Yeah. I'm kind of baffled here as to what these people are talking about? I read through the order myself and I didn't see where it was stated that black students who act up(and that is due to a lack of a support system in the home. Children who have a proper parental support system in place will succeed academically more times than not over children whose parents do not give a damn, and that has nothing to with race or ethnicity) are not to be disciplined.

It seems that several people took a sensationalized headline, and ran with it instead of actually reading the document itself....all in an effort to have a racist circle jerk.

I'm not sure how the moderators here work but there are several comments in this thread that cross the lines of all decency and human civility. ATS should be proud to be a rest haven for klansmen and white nationalists.

The headline is not sensational. It simply sums up what the Executive Order is about. Please attempt to refute that.

By the way, I am not a klansman nor a white supremacist. I, the OP, am a black woman.

Obviously you have the racist liberal mindset where you see 'racism' in anything and anyone who attempts to correctly criticize the black community.

Originally posted by CaticusMaximus
This is NOT going to help black kids in public schools, but it IS meant to pander to blacks via the shallow illusion that it will... or even just that hes giving them something for free, which from what I can see has been programmed to be expected in black culture.

Hes trying, and may be successful at, taking advantage of an already bad situation, advancing it. The goal isnt as shallow as the illusion is, its much deeper.

The goal is about trying to impede the progress of the next generation of black adults; progress being defined as individual success in all areas.

Forgive me, I have only made it to page two but I agree with you completely.

See here in America:

Blacks are more outgoing, free thinking, rebellious and self righteous. (for better or worse)

Whites are more passive, politically correct, egoists who try to blend into society. (for fear of judgment)

The governments ULTIMATE goal is to track everyone in this country down to their thoughts and sleep patterns. GPS, cellphones, mobile Hot-spots, Microsoft kinect, fingerprint scanning to punch in for work, rfid tags and implants and don't forget, apps, apps, apps! The privacy policy for most apps leaves me feeling naked in a glass house.

The point I'm getting at is the government has divided us into a few categories for dealing with. These stereotypes haven't always been there, they have been formed, developed and molded over time with careful subliminal messaging. Sometimes even more direct action when there is enough herd mentality to accept what is desired.

The government is taking away jobs on purpose.

The government is promoting a shortage of food on purpose.

The government has been building an arsenal to fight those who might not conform.

The media pushes new fads daily that the government wants society to indoctrinate into their lives.

The government can't win you over with material objects so it will reduce you to nothing more than an uneducated, dependent, reckless animal running on pure emotion, lacking any critical thinking skills.

The government is doing this to all races, blacks are just making it harder for them to achieve their goal. They have been made to feel oppressed and in-turn will not accept any form of "The Man".

How do we turn them into slaves again without them noticing this time?

The government wants DEPENDENT people. They want to track buying, spending, viewing, sleeping, heart rate, habits, triggers, routines and thought patterns. Total End Game. We are guinea pigs for the world model. Just look at what they are doing to developing nations.

A lot of people know this and it is not about white or black.The division isn't being created so we fight amongst ourselves. That is just collateral damage to our mindset when the government is using one of it's tactics to sway a demographic to a specific mindset.

The slaves aren't running back to the plantation as fast as they would like. They're getting too smart!

The government is catching them fish, not teaching them how to fish.

Take it or Leave it.

Originally posted by LightOrange
3. The discipline could be steeper because the disciplinary staff are racist cowards

*ding ding ding. We have a winner.

You obviously don't know the difference between an opinion and speculation. Nothing I have said has been "I believe this person acted like x because of y.". It has been "Well we don't really know because there are loose ends that haven't been explored by these case studies".

Are you serious? You all but claimed that the kid in the altercation in question went on a diatribe which resulted in his extended suspension.

If you go into the prinicpals office for getting into a fight, then proceed to call the prinicpal a moron and tell him/her that you will do what you please, you will get a much harsher punishment than someone who just takes it, keeps their mouth shut, and leaves.
~LightOrange

You're not very bright. The OP expresses a dislike for Obama's EO. The OP did not state any partisan alignment whatsoever; that was you trying to make it about left vs. right.

No, I'm trying to make it about fair vs unfair. I hold no party allegiance, but I will call a party out on their bull$#!t.

Also the original poster is black -- there's your irony.

Obama’s executive order calls on schools to reduce the number disciplinary actions taken against blacks students." that in and of itself is racist. It gives blacks a 'pass' on deviant, unproductive, and sometimes violent behavior.
~ButterCookie

You're right. That is ironic.

This above quote also happens to be factually incorrect, but whatevs...

I'm out.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

Are you saying that The President of the United States shouldn't address specific problems - specifically - ever?

I’m saying our public school system sucks for everybody right now. Instead of spending more of my tax dollars on programs that benefit one race, I’d like to see money spent to benefit ALL AMERICANS. I don’t have black children!!

While black children get special treatment in the public school system and preferential treatment with regard to continuing education in the form of scholarships tuition assistance programs geared toward minorities (and preferential treatment in the workplace as adults – affirmative action), my WHITE kids deal with reality. Is that fair?

I want equality! Is that too much to ask or too hard to understand?

reply to post by seabag

I want equality! Is that too much to ask or too hard to understand?

Many people want equality

You don't have black children

Do you think black kids are facing the exact same situations as your not-black kids?

If we were all treated equally to begin with - you would have a point

Are we all equal - besides just on paper and in our dreams?

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

There is a gap between test scores of African-American students and white students. African-American students score significantly less than whites. It is a real problem. This makes it more difficult for the African-American to succeed.

Tell me how your statement jives with this quote:

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

www.brainyquote.com...

Dr. King advocated for personal responsibility and equality, not special treatment and favoritism for blacks.

edit on 10-8-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

Yes. Give them the same chances to improve their character. Give their schools the exact same funding as the white schools. Give their schools the same quality of teachers that the white schools have. Give them the same access to quality preschools that the white neighborhoods have. Discipline them exactly the same as you would discipline the white students - no less, no more. That is what the executive order is about. You know why there isn't an executive order like this for whites? Because they already have all these things to help them succeed. Once they have all the same tools, that's when the personal responsibility comes in.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

Many people want equality

You don't have black children

Do you think black kids are facing the exact same situations as your not-black kids?

YES! I have been to my daughter’s classroom. All children are treated equally. I was once a grade school, high school and college student. With the exception of more scholarships for minorities, all student are treated equally.

If we were all treated equally to begin with - you would have a point

Are we all equal - besides just on paper and in our dreams?

We’re all equal. If the country was holding blacks back then please explain that to all of the prominent blacks in our society today. Maybe you should tell them their success is an illusion and they should be as upset as you.

reply to post by kaylaluv

Yes. Give them the same chances to improve their character. Give their schools the exact same funding as the white schools. Give their schools the same quality of teachers that the white schools have. Give them the same access to quality preschools that the white neighborhoods have.

Are you insane?

Do you think there are segregated schools in this country?