What a sick article from The New Yorker "civil forfeiture" you might want to read what is going on

Hey AthiestJesus.. your comment "you guys could stop all of this if you put as much effort into legal action as you do on this website", check this out..

America’s Corrupt Legal System www.globalresearch.ca...
Rigged courts, bribed judges, phony trials, extortion by lawyers, and over 2 million prisoners in the USA gulag

All that’s left is what American lawyers and judges call “the game”. As part of playing this game, USA lawyers and judges just twist words around, in order to produce any excuse, however flimsy, to achieve their objective, whether that be to jail an innocent person, or give the verdict that was sought by the big company that paid the big bribe through its law firm.

It is an endlessly devious manipulation of words and phrases to get the desired result, just devious falsehood and lies backed by the naked power of the judges. The only “real” part is the power that the judges and lawyers hold in America, to jail you and take away your property. The words of the law don’t protect you in the USA, because American judges and lawyers have no scruples about bending them to mean the opposite of what they say.

America’s lawyers are controlled by the judges, and don’t really work for you – that’s why they sell you out to the government, or to the big companies that pay bribes

Double Bind: is a dilemma in communication in which an individual (or group) receives two or more conflicting messages, with one message negating the other. This creates a situation in which a successful response to one message results in a failed response to the other, so that the person will be automatically wrong regardless of their response. The nature of a double bind is that the person cannot confront the inherent dilemma, and therefore can neither comment on the conflict, nor resolve it, nor opt out of the situation.

Duplicity: is defined as “contradictory doubleness of thought; speech, or action; especially, the concealment of ones true intentions by deceptive words or actions”. It is saying one thing and doing (or meaning) another… and doing it intentionally, in order to deceive.

Americans most likely to imagine they are still “free” are the ones who have not yet been trapped in the halls of America’s legal system.

And this article dates back to 2005

reply to post by AthiestJesus


Thanks for pointing out how it's NOT action to complain on website forums, though one may feel like it took the edge off the anger. It's so easy to "moan" the loss of freedoms & abuse of power, here in a quick ranty one-shot post; it's so easy for things to stay like this or get worse, since you people dont voice your grievances to the appropriate people. Seriously PLEASE make a habit of emailing your elected officials & council members monthly with remarks on the state of affairs in your respective areas.
Do something.

By the way, this is a somewhat misintentionally uninformed thread topic. Well, at least it's not uptodate. City Settles Suit (Lynda K. Russell's town, from the OP)
"The American Civil Liberties Union has settled a class-action suit filed against officials in Tenaha and Shelby County, who are accused of racial profiling motorists by stopping them without any legal justification and seizing their assets." (Sept 4 2012)

Read the link to get further armchair vindication.

Big Brother writing the laws now?

RabidJackRussell, thanks for facetiously pointing out the attitude (of your own post) which doesn't help things get better. Well, unless there's people new to ATS and new to govt corruption topics reading, so the hundreds of posts each day similar to yours in sentiment serve that one purpose for good. But if people didnt let off steam in posts maybe they'd be so fed up they'd do something more activist-like. This way of showing disgust is not participating in the push for change so much as it's biding time till someone else (hopefully) gets around to making real waves.

The apathy intrinsic in posts such as yours shows that there's no REAL will to stand up for your rights.
Phony disenfranchisement.

In the UK we even have auctions for the bits left over the police themselves didn't 'acquire' for the public to buy - all in the best possible taste of course. Here no matter how small your crime is, they simply hatch a figure out of the air and without having to prove it, our law, 'proceeds of crime' allows them to demand any sum they want.

I never thought I would see the day when the police here would act in this way. If you are guilty of a crime that they can swing you had a financial benefit from, even in some obscure way, you are put in jail then your assets are assessed and, whatever they are worth, the police say that is the amount you have benefitted from. The money then goes back, probably to fund the police - bonus's all round what!

reply to post by 727Sky


So basically it's state sponsored robbery. Give us your money or languish in jail.
Coming to a town near you?
Probably.

reply to post by kkrattiger

The suit further stated that the district attorney’s office “prosecuted bogus forfeiture actions; prosecuted, and/or threatened to prosecute victims of the interdiction program on bogus criminal charges; intimidated the victims; coerced, and tried to coerce the victims into waiving their rights to their money and/or property; gave the appearance that the interdiction program was legitimate; and shared in the proceeds.”

From your link: Good; out of court settlement of course because they were caught red handed....A lawyer, a court, should have never been required if the spirit of the law was followed in the first place. These are cases that have made the news...how many others stay under the radar? I did not find or read where any of the corrupt officials or the ones who started and condoned these procedures are in jail...did you? It would sure make me feel better if they were .....The prosecutor/district attorney should be removed and never permitted to pratice law again (at the least) IMO

Originally posted by evc1shop
Not saying that there isn't a lot of corruption going on but I just have to ask why there seems to be so much cash going through there. I would have thought people, like Mr Morrow on his way to get some dental work done, would get a cashier's check from their bank if they were withdrawing that much. Cash, when lost or stolen is not replaceable while most money instruments can at least have a stop and re-issue put on them for a small fee as long as you have the receipt for it and fill out the proper forms. Even the USPS sells them fairly cheaply.

USPS Money Orders

I am always amazed by the number of folks who have lost thousands while "travelling". A little more money smarts could save a lot of headache, unless of course, these people were lying to the police.

well cash being lost or stolen is irreplaceable, CASH is still NEEDED for many people.

sure "debit" cards are handy. provided your card is accepted where you happen to be, and when traveling this may not be, they have LIMITS (both per transactions [and that is on BOTH ends customer AND retailer] and even weekly/monthly), and FEES that go right along with them. you may also run into "holds" placed on accounts when either you "regular spending habits" are exceeded and/or your card is used outside of your "normal area". of course this is done to "protect you" from the RAMPANT FRAUD of FAKE cards made with STOLEN information gathered at places where you may use the card (secondary info readers that may even be found installed on BANK MACHINES,or anywhere else you card is swiped) or even from the BANK'S computer systems. you even have issues all the time with the electronic "banking systems" being down for what ever reason (which still happens FAR too FREQUENTLY). so if you are traveling, or making a "large purchase" MUCH better to have CASH, than suffer from "i'm sorry it will not accept the transaction", "limit exceeded", please contact your banking institution".

use cheques? how many people actually ACCEPT cheques anymore? not too many due to things like who knows if a person has the money in the bank, so you may not receive payment, cheques can also be CANCELED or "claimed stolen", again you won't get your money. in the YEARS i worked for a MAJOR retailer we accepted cheques for MAYBE a year, due to problems with them getting payed by the banks, thus LOOSING MONEY for the store.

credit cards? lots of similar problems as with "debit cards", like limits, "possible fraud holds" and the like. not to mention HIGH "borrowing" FEES. that is if you HAVE a credit card, which many people don't due to not wanting them or having bad credit and UNABLE to get one. oh and those "gift" and "re loadable" type credit cards, the ARE NOT ACCEPTED MANY PLACES, (including on the "net"), so they can also be useless.

"cashiers" cheques and "certified cheques". not only do they have FEES to get, but depending on where you are they ARE STILL HELD FOR AT LEAST A WEEK, before you can get the money. so if you NEED the MONEY NOW, you are screwed. and generally you HAVE TO HAVE AN ACCOUNT at whatever bank you want to cash them at so again, useless for travel.

travelers cheques? again MANY PLACES WILL NOT ACCEPT THEM, because of things like "fraud", forgeries, or in honesty the person has no clue what they even are and how to deal with them.

CASH is FAR from being not needed. there are MANY reasons CASH IS FAR SUPERIOR.

Hi kkrattiger did you get a chance to read through that article via the link I post? What are your views on this matter?

In your own words enlighten me on the REAL will of standing up for my rights?

reply to post by HanzHenry

Yeah, they're Redcoats for sure....
Weirder still, the manner of policing in the U.S. is modeled after the british model.
Same with the banking and legal system!!.
No wonder huh?.

From some of the posts I have read here it sounds like car jacking and muggings and robberies happen all the time, everywhere. Yeah, it does seem that way if you watch the news on TV, and that's exactly why they show you all of that negative stuff. To make you feel safer sitting in front of your idiot box, safe from the big bad world, wasting electricity, getting fat and out of shape and developing a low grade anxiety disorder.....AND....

....Getting ready for the next phase of your life which is feeding the corrupt overpriced and ineffective medical industry.....

I'll bet few if any of you have ever been robbed, mugged or car-jacked ever in your entire life, but y'all sure do sound all scared of stuff like that....

I rode a bicycle from Florida to Wisconsin carrying $4000.00 cash for expenses, and had not a single problem with anyone but one wannabe KKK redneck in Jacksonville FL, not a single problem from anyone else at all in 2 months on the road. The police (don't mistake that I defend them) looked in on us when we were down for the night to make sure we were OK several times, we didn't even get hassled about camping along the road when we were stuck out on the highway on a Saturday night, we exercised common sense and got a safe distance from the road of course.....

Never saw anyone else getting screwed over on that 2 month trip either. By The Way....

These takings have been happening for many years, and there are ways to protect yourself. Get a bank receipt when you withdraw the money, keep track of any money you spend from the lump sum and keep those receipts too, do not let those receipts get taken with the money if you can help it, get something from the cop who took your cash stating the amount (hopefully the real amount), and if your expenditures and the total match the amount the cop took all match up you have a good defense if you defy their over-reaching authority.

MOST DON'T

You might have to pay a lawyer for help, you may be acquainted with someone who has the knowledge to help you and not even know it, if you are really motivated you can do it yourself, you just have to learn how.

Don't do anything to get pulled over, keep your car maintained and everything current, maybe some research about the area you're driving through would be a good idea even.

I have NEVER had a problem with the law that I didn't bring on myself from carelessness.

Oh Yeah!!!!, don't talk to the cops, don't give consent to any search, by carrying on any type of conversation with them you are giving consent to do business in an offhand way, BE QUIET!!!, and tell your passengers to keep their mouths shut too. Anything you say can and will be used against you, so don't give them anything to use then.

Anyway, the world ain't such a terrible place as you are led to believe it is, really. Don't condemn the whole world because you see bad things on the news or in articles.

reply to post by EA006


If you search google, and adjust results by time to show latest, you can see for yourself. Townships participating in rackets like this..... Yes, there are repercussions.

The outofcourt settlement was just the civil suit.

reply to post by rabidjackrussell

RabidJack, Yes, I looked at your linked article. In my opinion it is not an article of researched and referenced journalism but an inflammatory blog post lacking facts & examples. Please dont assume this to mean I've no problem with America's prison system. But I'd like to share that as a moderate liberal, or libertarian (please dont make party i.d. an issue in this thread), and one who supports vast overhaul of certain laws, I know several lawyers (upstanding, compassionate HIPPIE-type lawyers!), I know 2 or 3 judges who are moral & empathetic examples of whom should be given that position (because someone must do the job). (One judge is a family friend who leads a Methodist sunday school class known for stirring the pot. I grew up in that church & while not attending now, find it to be less dogmatic & more openminded with a focus on serving others. That's part of Methodist doctrine). I'm not part of the upper crust w/connections, but rather, born & raised in a small town, and moved to a city and have had to go to court. Ii've personally witnessed several times the reasonable, logical, & supportable decisions & actions taken by roughly 15 legal professionals & judges, in southern NM & eastern NM.
To generalize lawyers and judges as you have by letting such a blog post form the jist of your post, is disengenuous at most & lazy at best.

I think we may be in agreement, however, that bad cops are the beginning of terrible corruption. IF there are corrupt D.A.s (and of course, there are) & judges (& there are), cops are really the only line of defense for poor people, who cant afford a free-acting lawyer. So I agree that corrupt cops are a blight on the system worthy of note, here.

Follows is a quote from the inflammatory, loaded blogpiece you linked in your post above. The selection is representative of the piece as acwhole. It's sensationalized & rabble-y.

"All world citizens should know how the corrupt USA legal system, is a danger to every traveller, visitor, and guest worker from overseas, and to every individual who takes the risky step of entering upon American territory. Just ask the overseas families of prisoners who were put to death inside the USA, with their embassies never even being informed that they were arrested – or the many foreign people serving hugely long prison terms in America, after they were jailed on flimsy tainted “evidence” from criminal snitches."

The last part is a good premise for a real article, in my opinion. I wouldnt dismiss a well-researched and matter-of-fact piece exploring that assertion.

reply to post by MyHappyDogShiner


MyHappyDogShiner,
Thanks for your post, it brought a smile to my face. Im glad you are contributing to ATS. I agree with the things you point out, especially the statement about not having trouble w/the law for anything not brought upon oneself by carelessness, & appreciate the anecdotal account of your bike-riding trip.
It's important to look for the good in our states, cities, & towns, & to recognize the bad with the intent to change it, even in as small a way as choising to share knowledge in an optimistic way, rather than pessimistic brow-beating which only serves to discourage & defeat any inkling of social change in the minds of those with whom you share your viewpoints.

reply to post by 727Sky


i always carry cash when going places, i have about half of what i plan
on spending in cash the other half on a debit card.

cash is king, sure you run a risk, but most that carry , carry more than
cash... 9mm stub.

I have had times where i've been in places where the card wont work, or
all the atm's are from a diffrent bank, and they want to charge a arm and
leg just to transfer the funds and give you cash, so i normally split my funds,
i have been in places where they only take cash, as well as places that only
take cards. So either way i am coverd.

I know of one trip i had over 6K on me in cash, was going to buy a car in a
diffrent state about 11 hours away. Got a great deal on the car because i had
cash. They knocked about a grand off the price.

PSSST! This was already covered in another thread:

ABOVETOPSECRET: NEW YORKER ARTICLE ON CIVIL FORFEITURE LAW ABUSE

I find it strange that when a bank is caught laundering drug funds from cartels. They were fined. Why didnt the police ect take all the banks money? As some one already said land of the free dumb and home of the not so brave. Its not that much different here in the UK. But at least we are not being shot and tasered at the same time.

Originally posted by kkrattiger
reply to post by rabidjackrussell

 

RabidJack, Yes, I looked at your linked article. In my opinion it is not an article of researched and referenced journalism but an inflammatory blog post lacking facts & examples. Please dont assume this to mean I've no problem with America's prison system. But I'd like to share that as a moderate liberal, or libertarian (please dont make party i.d. an issue in this thread), and one who supports vast overhaul of certain laws, I know several lawyers (upstanding, compassionate HIPPIE-type lawyers!), I know 2 or 3 judges who are moral & empathetic examples of whom should be given that position (because someone must do the job). (One judge is a family friend who leads a Methodist sunday school class known for stirring the pot. I grew up in that church & while not attending now, find it to be less dogmatic & more openminded with a focus on serving others. That's part of Methodist doctrine). I'm not part of the upper crust w/connections, but rather, born & raised in a small town, and moved to a city and have had to go to court. Ii've personally witnessed several times the reasonable, logical, & supportable decisions & actions taken by roughly 15 legal professionals & judges, in southern NM & eastern NM.
To generalize lawyers and judges as you have by letting such a blog post form the jist of your post, is disengenuous at most & lazy at best.

I think we may be in agreement, however, that bad cops are the beginning of terrible corruption. IF there are corrupt D.A.s (and of course, there are) & judges (& there are), cops are really the only line of defense for poor people, who cant afford a free-acting lawyer. So I agree that corrupt cops are a blight on the system worthy of note, here.

Wow, I haven't read a response as stupid as this one in a long time...THANK YOU for the good laugh. I know stupid is as stupid does, but its really funny when stupid is as stupid says.
When you post things like "don't make party I.D. an issue here" you actually think it wouldn't be? After reading all the comments from this original posting, you have to be the most uninformed person posting a response. Grant it, you are entitled to your own opinion, no matter how naive, but seriously, when was the last time you actually did your own research as to what is going on in the world today? Using big words to mask your ignorance does not make you an intelligent person.
As per your response...it would seem to me that you have failed to understand the true meaning of the article altogether. You also failed to see that facts/examples were actually used. Not all of the "facts" consist of pie charts and graphs, but are made up of words...so either you did not read the article in its entirety, or at all, or you just like to stir the pot for your own personal benefit. Nobody states that you have to believe everything you read, everyone is entitled to think for themselves.You merely have a biased opinion.
Nobody cares that you may know "judicial officials or lawyers" in all honesty. Nor do we care what religion you are or the religion of those you were talking about (which by the way you took up most of your post in stating that information) or what side of the political fence you sit on. Your response showcases how "open-minded" you are NOT. Unless you have grown up around those so-called judges and lawyers, and seen what they were like throughout their careers, do you truly know them? NO. You stated you moved from a small town to a city and had to go to court...what did you have to attend court for? Just because you said that, are we to believe that you know the system better than everyone else? NO. If you have personally witnessed the legal system working in a "decent manner" 15 times, sheesh, you must have had to attend court a lot or you just like being inside a courtroom. People "generalize" the lawyers and judicial officials because it has become a common fact as of late that they are "mostly" corrupt and choose not to follow the constitution...hence the term "corruption". I am not "judging" you, just your intelligence.
I have read that article in its entirety, and frankly, could not have written it better myself. If you want to be condescending towards others, may I suggest you go find a church to ramble on in as your religious beliefs have no bearing in this forum. I think it may be a good idea to put your big boy pants on and stop acting like a spoon-fed baby and find out for yourself what the truth is. If you want to post what you deem "facts" please feel free to do so. I would be happy to read it...otherwise stop asking for what you refuse to listen to.

reply to post by 727Sky


I wholeheartedly agree!

Originally posted by illuminnaughty
As some one already said land of the free dumb and home of the not so brave.

That saying is funny but sadly very true for all of North America.