Real Aliens in the Real World

The alien/UFO skeptics say they want proof - proof that the alien/UFO phenomena is real and really exists in
the real world. In order to prove that that the alien/UFO phenomena is real in the real world you will first have to prove
the existence of a real world - this can not be done. Any proof of reality will be based upon a universal acceptance
of a real and most important a 'universal' reality the proof which will be based upon logical language and math which
is only symbolic and does not prove a universal reality. Say there are ten billion people on the planet Earth, each
and every one of these beings is seeing reality from an individual and unique perspective - no two sentient beings
have ever existed in the exact same place at the exact time and no two sentient beings have ever experienced
reality [if it exists] in exactly the same way. It is a quantum universe with many paradigms of reality. In this universe
the existence of other worlds, minds and more than likely 'alien' beings becomes more of a probability than a
possibility. So those who suffer from a myopic view of the universe should take off the blinders and realize that
those strange lights in the sky that appear to move with conscious volition are in all probability real and conscious
beings from places still unknown - and whose purpose in visiting this part of the galaxy remains to be seen.

Considering our Earth resides in a relatively unpopulated part of the Milky way galaxy and said Galaxy is only one of billions of such galaxies in the Universe, it would be improbable to suggest that Alien life doesn't exist somewhere
in this Universe. Also consider the atoms and molecules that make us what we are, are also the same atoms and molecules that formed the sun and the planets then I would say your theory is almost definitely true.
Mankind still knows very little about the Universe and naysayers and skeptics by their narrow perspective know even less.

The narrow mind of the skeptics assumes that aliens will be like humans. Alien beings may think defferently, react
differently and have a very different mind set than humans. For now even if they could communicate directly they may choose not to. Their 'prime directive' for now may be just to observe and collect data - I could see other beings
who have observed man and his history as being mistrustful of the warlike and egotistical humans they are observing.

ET/ID Intelligent Life Exists if

TAUs are real!! and NOT man made!!! Or is this in dispute?

If they are then the technological advancement that the few % clearly appear to display is in my view impossible for mankind to have achieved in only decades!! Take computing as an example to measure TA over time.

Surely if TAU's are real and the ones displaying incredible capabilities are real then a 1000 years TA would be insufficient to catch up!

So one can derive ones own conclusion from that!!!

Originally posted by AlienView
The narrow mind of the skeptics assumes that aliens will be like humans. Alien beings may think defferently, react
differently and have a very different mind set than humans. For now even if they could communicate directly they may choose not to. Their 'prime directive' for now may be just to observe and collect data - I could see other beings
who have observed man and his history as being mistrustful of the warlike and egotistical humans they are observing.

Well there are reasons to believe they might be similar, after all as far as we are concerned the laws of physics seem to be constant as far as planets and organisms go, there is no reason to believe that there might not be an optimal form of being that evolution tends to move forward to and those organisms as they merge in that path towards the most profitable form will start to look alike, not only that we also know that if they evolved in a planet with predators like we have they would have had to evolve great social skills to be able to survive since nature always seems to give you only one either strength/intellect when comparing to other species. So its not likely that they would be otherworldly different than us (Assuming they evolved in a planet)

I see many people who think that organisms could evolve to the point of interstellar travel yet still act like everyday humans, i think with their advance intelligence and information knowledge might follow close behind and acknowledge that most likely they went through a period of discord as we are now and will be able to relate.

reply to post by RP2SticksOfDynamite

The Tau are a young, humanoid and technologically-advanced intelligent race native to the Eastern Fringes of the Milky Way Galaxy who are fighting to expand their interstellar empire and a philosophical concept they call the Greater Good. The Tau claim to be a peaceful race when possible, asking if others will join their cause voluntarily instead of fighting. However, if their peaceful overtures are refused, the Tau may well decide to conquer a planet and add it to their growing interstellar empire for the greater good, searing the flesh from the bones of anyone who stands against their benign expansions. Tau society is divided into a number of castes, each responsible for managing a specific aspect of their society. The Tau's central motivating ideal is that everyone in their empire regardless of their species will work for the collective betterment of everyone else, an almost mystical philosophy they call the Greater Good.

Funny, I started a blog a few years ago and I had never heard of Taus or played any war-games BUT my blog
which supposedly came from an alien source that I supposedly channeled had a similar message:
Man must evolve or perish. Of course speculation proves nothing but even scientists are now often agreeing that
in this vast universe alien intelligence is more probable than improbable. For now my speculative aliens allow for
choice - if we don't want them - the don't want us!.

reply to post by CesarO

Your speculation is of course possible. However when dealing with something like 'alien intelligence' one can not
jump to any conclusions.. The entire eco-system and environment from whence they came may be so different so
as to have produced beings much different than human. The eco-system of Earth requires life eating life - for all we
know there might be aliens that feed on inorganic matter and/or energy.

Originally posted by AlienView
reply to post by RP2SticksOfDynamite

 

The Tau are a young, humanoid and technologically-advanced intelligent race native to the Eastern Fringes of the Milky Way Galaxy who are fighting to expand their interstellar empire and a philosophical concept they call the Greater Good. The Tau claim to be a peaceful race when possible, asking if others will join their cause voluntarily instead of fighting. However, if their peaceful overtures are refused, the Tau may well decide to conquer a planet and add it to their growing interstellar empire for the greater good, searing the flesh from the bones of anyone who stands against their benign expansions. Tau society is divided into a number of castes, each responsible for managing a specific aspect of their society. The Tau's central motivating ideal is that everyone in their empire regardless of their species will work for the collective betterment of everyone else, an almost mystical philosophy they call the Greater Good.

Funny, I started a blog a few years ago and I had never heard of Taus or played any war-games BUT my blog
which supposedly came from an alien source that I supposedly channeled had a similar message:
Man must evolve or perish. Of course speculation proves nothing but even scientists are now often agreeing that
in this vast universe alien intelligence is more probable than improbable. For now my speculative aliens allow for
choice - if we don't want them - the don't want us!.

TAU = Tech. Advanced UFO

Originally posted by AlienView
The narrow mind of the skeptics assumes that aliens will be like humans. Alien beings may think defferently, react
differently and have a very different mind set than humans. For now even if they could communicate directly they may choose not to. Their 'prime directive' for now may be just to observe and collect data - I could see other beings
who have observed man and his history as being mistrustful of the warlike and egotistical humans they are observing.

YOU guys don't have any idea what OTHERS think I am a sceptic but do I believe in Alien life somewhere YES 100% do I believe it visits here or has visited here not yet.

I have seen enough evidence on here to see that some ufo believers will look at any picture/video and assume they see an Alien craft and the simple fact of some of the strange assumptions members on here make when they look at pictures/video shows that many are confused and don't understand the world around them.

Originally posted by kudegras
Considering our Earth resides in a relatively unpopulated part of the Milky way galaxy

How can you say that?? Sol, resides in a rather large number of other stars, which has a significant population of "G" class stars, we already know "G class" stars support Human life.

Here is a vid I found that begins to touch n this, and just how populated the galaxy truly is.


Just within 50 light years there are more than enough "G class" stars, over 3 Billion years old to support the assertion here




Actually, most of the "myth" around ET has a strong basis in fact; all the supposed species come from a "G class" star.

Originally posted by AlienView
The alien/UFO skeptics say they want proof - proof that the alien/UFO phenomena is real and really exists in
the real world.
So those who suffer from a myopic view of the universe should take off the blinders and realize that
those strange lights in the sky that appear to move with conscious volition are in all probability real and conscious
beings from places still unknown - and whose purpose in visiting this part of the galaxy remains to be seen.

""Where is everybody?"

A very legitimate question posed not by a closed minded individual, or just an "anybody", no, not at all, this question was posed by a well known and brilliant physicist

Enrico Fermi an Italian theoretical and experimental physicist, best known for his work on the development of Chicago Pile-1, the first nuclear reactor, and for his contributions to the development of quantum theory, nuclear and particle physics, and statistical mechanics. Along with Robert Oppenheimer, he is referred to as "the father of the atomic bomb".[1] He held several patents related to the use of nuclear power, and was awarded the 1938 Nobel Prize in Physics for his work on induced radioactivity and the discovery of transuranic elements. Throughout his life Fermi was widely regarded as one of the very few physicists who excelled both theoretically and experimentally

The question became famous and was famously called the Fermi Paradox

The Fermi paradox (or Fermi's paradox) is the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilization and humanity's lack of contact with, or evidence for, such civilizations.[1] The basic points of the argument, made by physicists Enrico Fermi and Michael H. Hart, are: The Sun is a young star. There are billions of stars in the galaxy that are billions of years older; Some of these stars likely have Earth-like planets[2] which, if the Earth is typical, may develop intelligent life; Presumably some of these civilizations will develop interstellar travel, a technology Earth is investigating even now; At any practical pace of interstellar travel, the galaxy can be completely colonized in a few tens of millions of years. According to this line of thinking, the Earth should have already been colonized, or at least visited. But no convincing evidence of this exists. Furthermore, no confirmed signs of intelligence elsewhere have been spotted, either in our galaxy or the more than 80 billion other galaxies of the observable universe. Hence Fermi's question, "Where is everybody?"

Just one source of a highly credible scientist, but an incredibly simple and logical question.

Although do I think 'maybe, 'perhaps', 'possible' that some type of microbial life 'may' exist somewhere out in the Universe? I believe it would be foolish to think to say no to that question, however, I just do not know. Additionally, is the next question of does Intelligent life exist somewhere out in the Universe, same thoughts as I posed above and again, I believe it would be foolish to think to say no to that question, however, again, I just do not know.

Now to go to the next question of highly advanced intelligent ET's, once capable of hip-hopping through the Universe, I defer to Fermi's question "Where is everybody?"

Fair? Logical? Factual? I think skeptically, but with an open mind willing to change my position quickly should evidence clearly is produced, But those three questions I believe are valid. Just my opinion based upon my agreement with Fermi! Peace!! ID!!!

Additional Fermi comment:

The age of the universe and its vast number of stars suggest that unless the Earth is very atypical, extraterrestrial life should be common.[4] In an informal discussion in 1950, the physicist Enrico Fermi questioned why, if a multitude of advanced extraterrestrial civilizations exists in the Milky Way galaxy, evidence such as spacecraft or probes is not seen.

reply to post by ItDepends

Additional Fermi comment: The age of the universe and its vast number of stars suggest that unless the Earth is very atypical, extraterrestrial life should be common.[4] In an informal discussion in 1950, the physicist Enrico Fermi questioned why, if a multitude of advanced extraterrestrial civilizations exists in the Milky Way galaxy, evidence such as spacecraft or probes is not seen.

Good reply. This is my point in starting this post - Are we looking at 'them' when we see these strange and apparently intelligently guided UFO phenomena and refusing to accept the almost obvious? The fact that they
don't drop down and say hello can be explained by many logical hypothesis - Remember what happened when
the Indians said hello to Columbus - this is a two way issue - they might have viewed Human history and be scared to death of contact with humans - just because they are technically advanced does not mean they are warlike and think like humans - they might not want direct contact with a warlike species.

reply to post by ItDepends


I'm not sure Fermi's question is truly valid. With a 5 in 7 billion chance of actually bumping into ET, I would have to say the same for many Chinese; "Where are they?"

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Originally posted by tanka418
reply to post by ItDepends

 

I'm not sure Fermi's question is truly valid. With a 5 in 7 billion chance of actually bumping into ET, I would have to say the same for many Chinese; "Where are they?"

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Well as 1 in 5 in the world population is Chinese that's a bit better than 5 in 7 billion you don't work in an investment bank do you

Originally posted by tanka418
reply to post by ItDepends

 

I'm not sure Fermi's question is truly valid. With a 5 in 7 billion chance of actually bumping into ET, I would have to say the same for many Chinese; "Where are they?"

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Yes, I'm aware of the quick rhetoric response that "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." And that may well be true.

But there is an acceptable response that says "In some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of its occurrence as positive proof of its non-occurrence."

And as far the validity of Fermi's statement, it's fact, he did say it!! Whether you agree with this scientist is a different matter.

LOL, what do the Chinese have to do with existence or non-existence of ET Intelligent life? Umm, this is earth isn't it?

Originally posted by AlienView
The alien/UFO skeptics say they want proof - proof that the alien/UFO phenomena is real and really exists in
the real world. In order to prove that that the alien/UFO phenomena is real in the real world you will first have to prove
the existence of a real world - this can not be done. Any proof of reality will be based upon a universal acceptance
of a real and most important a 'universal' reality the proof which will be based upon logical language and math which
is only symbolic and does not prove a universal reality. Say there are ten billion people on the planet Earth, each
and every one of these beings is seeing reality from an individual and unique perspective - no two sentient beings
have ever existed in the exact same place at the exact time and no two sentient beings have ever experienced
reality [if it exists] in exactly the same way. It is a quantum universe with many paradigms of reality. In this universe
the existence of other worlds, minds and more than likely 'alien' beings becomes more of a probability than a
possibility. So those who suffer from a myopic view of the universe should take off the blinders and realize that
those strange lights in the sky that appear to move with conscious volition are in all probability real and conscious
beings from places still unknown - and whose purpose in visiting this part of the galaxy remains to be seen.

the skeptic, can accept the theory of gravity, but cannot accept the idea that E.T's more then likely exist, and are in our skies..

Yet considering the information we have on these events when they occur, which is very little, we cannot proclaim these are aliens, either.. It is just a theory just as we have a theory of gravity, both of which cannot be proven...

Once again I will say mankind does not know much about what he exists in, and is ignorant enough to think he/she is the center of the universe, and is his own god..

Also thinks he is Superior, that is why its so difficult for him to understand his surroundings .

reply to post by ItDepends


The Chinese go to probabilities. There is a reasonably fixed probability that I could "bump" into someone from China; it's actually rather good. Another probability that I could bump into ET, it's some smaller (7.14E-10).

With probabilities like that Fermi was premature with his statement. And, yes, we can lay all the "quick BS" aside, but, it does not affect the probability, it remains rather fixed. The reality is that there could be 10's to 100's of thousands of off-worlders here and no one would know. Then there issues with the communication and knowing, no one is forthcoming with information concerning alien visitation.

Originally posted by AlienView
reply to post by ItDepends

 

Additional Fermi comment: The age of the universe and its vast number of stars suggest that unless the Earth is very atypical, extraterrestrial life should be common.[4] In an informal discussion in 1950, the physicist Enrico Fermi questioned why, if a multitude of advanced extraterrestrial civilizations exists in the Milky Way galaxy, evidence such as spacecraft or probes is not seen.

Good reply. This is my point in starting this post - Are we looking at 'them' when we see these strange and apparently intelligently guided UFO phenomena and refusing to accept the almost obvious? The fact that they
don't drop down and say hello can be explained by many logical hypothesis - Remember what happened when
the Indians said hello to Columbus - this is a two way issue - they might have viewed Human history and be scared to death of contact with humans - just because they are technically advanced does not mean they are warlike and think like humans - they might not want direct contact with a warlike species.

Thanks AV!! I do enjoy topics and discussions such as this one. You say ".....this is a two way issue - they might have viewed Human history and be scared to death of contact with humans - just because they are technically advanced does not mean they are warlike and think like humans - they might not want direct contact with a warlike species."

And sure, and there are many logical hypothesis that could be used. Your Columbus/Native American analogy is one and of course the savage attacks by the Spaniards of the many South American cultures for gold is another historical example. And of course our current world state of affairs.

So yeah, if they Intelligent ET's exist, it is plausible, especially if they came in an exploratory craft to not want to land and come in contact with the existing species....germs, hostility, to name a couple.

Let's look at this way too. What if at some point Earthlings are able to fly off safely in a tested space craft of a crew of four astronauts to another planet in the Milky Way galaxy, our own. We found a way to do this and actually traveled to Europa, a satellite planet of Jupiter. So we get there and we notice what appears to be signs of life, maybe showing some signs of intelligence. Our four man crew observes it, the creatures below observe this UFO, our space craft. Our crew sees signs of hostility or let's say instability, volcanoes, wars among the inhabitants. Do you really think we would try to land on Europa with just a 4 man crew and say 'hello' were from just down the street, that blue dot out there!! I think not! Most likely in our history, we will continue to send probes, unmanned missions in hopes of finding something interesting which by the way we have. Cassini and Voyager...nothing found yet. So, I understand your analogy, it could happen or have happened, but, I can't make that leap that it has happened.

So I can identify with this understanding of assuming something, in this case, Intelligent ET life:

But there is an acceptable response that says "In some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of its occurrence as positive proof of its non-occurrence."

reply to post by tanka418

Actually there are a whole bunch of people - some credible, who have claimed direct alien contact. Many books
have been written on the subject. Skeptics still want 'proof' and implants that can not be shown to be made of
any known man-made material when analyzed is not good enough for them. On this issue of proof there are two extreme cases. Case one includes the so-called nuts who see an alien behind every tree and at the other end of the
extremes are those who would not accept the existence of aliens even if they were looking one in the eye or
reading what they post on ATS.

Originally posted by tanka418
reply to post by ItDepends

 

The Chinese go to probabilities. There is a reasonably fixed probability that I could "bump" into someone from China; it's actually rather good. Another probability that I could bump into ET, it's some smaller (7.14E-10).

With probabilities like that Fermi was premature with his statement. And, yes, we can lay all the "quick BS" aside, but, it does not affect the probability, it remains rather fixed. The reality is that there could be 10's to 100's of thousands of off-worlders here and no one would know. Then there issues with the communication and knowing, no one is forthcoming with information concerning alien visitation.

Thanks and I follow your discussion for the most part. But c'mon, we KNOW the Chinese exist. We KNOW. Yes the billions and billions of galaxies that we presume that exist in this vast and unknown size of a Universe would lead one to believe that the probability that life exists somewhere. I think that is a fair assumption, probability.

Now the real question is, is that life Intelligent? And let's just jump to what most want to believe, that there are far superior, advanced civilizations out there in the universe, in fact there's 1,000's some would have you believe.

Hmmm, that's where I have NOT taken the leap. Fermi's comments and thinking makes sense. If we are to believe there are so many, a lot of them are superior or in between that and some other level of intelligence..."Where Are They?" This discussion can go on at nausem. Ya believe, ya don' believe, but what about this? Nah, that's not proof, we want something tangible...back and forth we go.

I place myself in the category with Mulder from my favorite show "The X-Files" and his famous poster. "I Want To Believe" , but I am yet to be convinced, but I'm hoping! Peace!! ID !!