Lavabit, email service used by Snowden, shuts down

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by topdog81
The president is on tv at this very moment, talking about transparency.... Someone needs to ask him to stop lying to the faces of all people on this planet.

edit on 9-8-2013 by topdog81 because: (no reason given)

"Transparency" is the code word that means the opposite of "Privacy".

Yup, first thing I thought of myself. The irony is there for all to see, with the NCTC working in VERY private with their activities, yet another rag-tag bunch of intelligence although not to be sniffed at since it is the current money pit where everything is collated from all the usual suspects, AKA other intelligence sources. They do have a seemingly innocuous website, but that was in place before Snowden.

www.nctc.gov...

Looks like good email providers is dropping like flies, what next? NSA will ban other email providers except providers that are on NSA "whitelist" like Gmail and Live mail...

Originally posted by ecapsretuo

You may also add that the stored data can used to the economic and imperialistic advantage of those who can access it. It is likely this has already happened. For example, I read an article about Raytheon swiping a defense contract from an Irish company using info obtained from PRISM.

Someone can use that data to suck all the (remaining) big money to their own coffers. Companies outside of the the governments' interest can be targeted fiscally in myriad subvesive ways, by the ones with the data.

The data can be sold, too, to US corporate interests to use in their further conquest of the world economy.

With the corporations already deeply embedded in the US government, it only follows that this data could be used in the corporations' end games.

I did not know that. Thanks for the disturbing info. The more we look at this the worse the implications become.

Originally posted by EarthShine
We may have lost our Fourth Amendment rights too as is mentioned in the conclusion of the Fall 2011 Harvard Journal Law of Technology - issue titled

PRIVACY AND THE MODERN GRID

jolt.law.harvard.edu...

The conclusion quotes two authors that say that the Fourth Amendment is almost dead.

RE: SMART METERS:

_Forty million homes will be equipped with smart meters by 2015. These meters
are a rich source of information that is not clearly covered by “existing,
sector-specific Federal privacy statutes.”_

TABLE OF CONTENTS
I. INTRODUCTION .............................................................................. 199
II. THE SMART GRID AND THE CASE FOR SMART METER
DATA PRIVACY .............................................................................. 203
III. SMART METER DATA AND THE FOURTH AMENDMENT .............. 207
A. The Fourth Amendment and Advanced Surveillance
Technologies ........................................................................... 209
B. The Fourth Amendment’s Third-Party Doctrine ...................... 211
1. The Evolution of the Third-Party Doctrine: From
Secret Agents to Stored Records ..................................... 212
2. The Third-Party Doctrine as a Doctrine of
Reasonableness ................................................................ 213
3. The Third-Party Doctrine as a Doctrine of Consent .............. 216
A. The Choice to Disclose ...................................................... 216
B. The Limits of Consent ........................................................ 217
IV. THE CASE FOR SMART METER DATA PRIVACY
LEGISLATION ................................................................................. 218
A. The Case for Leadership by Congress ...................................... 219
B. Two Proposals for Legislative Action ....................................... 220
1. Proposal One: Require Notice and Provide Standing ............ 221
2. Proposal Two: Require a Warrant ......................................... 222
V. CONCLUSION ................................................................................

Thank you for an excellent heads-up. I had never even considered the privacy implications of the Smart Grid.
The Smart Grid is produced by GE if my memory serves me. A former Clinton WH Chief of Staff, Podesta, is the lobbyist for both GE & BP -- or he was during the BP Gulf Oil Spill. They're all in bed together.

Didn't California residents have all kinds of problems with the Smart Grid? I heard they were getting outrageously high electric bills.

I haven't had time to read the 200+ pages of "Privacy and the Modern Grid" but it looks like it's worth going thru.

Originally posted by ForteanOrg

No one would have believed in the last years of the twentieth century that this world was being watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than man's and yet as mortal as his own; that as men busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinised and studied, perhaps almost as narrowly as a man with a microscope might scrutinise the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water. With infinite complacency men went to and fro over this globe about their little affairs, serene in their assurance of their empire over matter....

A very pertinent quote from HG Wells "War of the World."

I'm not a follower of David Icke, but I think there really is something to the idea that ET's control this planet for their own reasons -- that have nothing to do with the well-being of humankind. But I digress.

Originally posted by kkrattiger

On to the topic: it seems rather suspect that this person wants to open the company later as an American company, yet is claiming some vague legal hurdles rendering the current company shut down...
What reach does US government (or rather, military investigators SINCE "US GOVT" is SUCH A BLANKET LABEL) have into wherever Lavabit is? The very language on the annoncement seems hypocritical, Why, unless he wasbeing paid, would someone in his (unverified) situation want to open up shop IN America? Legal defense fund? Sounds like someone who did some crash-test research on how to monetize a chance involvement in a story which became a media circus.

edit on 9-8-2013 by kkrattiger because: Pardon me, if u posted contributory post. I neglected to read the next 4 pgs. I still hold to my statement, however,that it's becoming an echo chamber on ATS.

edit on 9-8-2013 by kkrattiger because: VOYGER's post above, on this page, is a good example of contributing, not regurgitating platitudes

edit on 9-8-2013 by kkrattiger because: Edit for dang typos goof grief

I agree with you on the pointless, information-less, and or uninformed posts in this thread, but yours is one of these as well, i.e. uninformed. Lavabit has been a US-based company. The owner is being forced to shut down his e-mail service because he refuses to compromise the privacy of his customers at the demand of the US government. He says he is going to fight this via the legal system, is encouraging others to do so as well, and is, in a low-key way, also soliciting for donations for this legal fight. Most all non-commercial internet enterprises make donation solicitations, so that this person is doing is not some sleazy scam.

To claim this is some gimmick for monetization is plain misrepresentation and character smearing. Unlike the large e-mail companies, this guy is putting the integrity of his service first. Why would anyone want to start up shop in the US, indeed? Perhaps because he is a US citizen and actually thought the 4th Amendment still is in effect? It is also quite obvious that Lavabit is addressing as publicly as possible that it has been served a National Security Letter, which gags the business/person from telling anybody what the government is demanding from him.

Originally posted by swanne

...That's why the military is in place. To avoid the collapse of your society back to chaos. Ever wondered what would happen IF (big emphasis on the IF here) the people successfully destroyed the government and its worldwide defence system (the military)? Mafia and neonazism and criminals will be the first to take over. They are quite more coordinated and faster than honest people. Why do you think the big media keeps feeding the people with pro-revolution propaganda (Hunger Games, The Purge, Revolution)? They are using the same tactic as the Communists did: "People of all nations, unite yourselves (against your respective government)" - quote from Karl Marx. Marxism, my friend, is still much alive. The russians might have lost the cold war, but I feel that the Ideological war has just begun.

I agree. I have my own suspicions about how they will trigger a civil war. The criminal PTB can hide a lot in the fog of war. They can also cull the herd -- maybe some "accidental" ethnic cleansing?

I don't think the PTB care which brand of totalitarianism they use to gain complete control. They're all about power & control. It's just that the Far Left infiltrated the Democratic party decades ago.

"Communism and Fascism are two wings of the same bird."

Both have central governments that control everything.

reply to post by topdog81


Heh! Maybe I was RIGHT?!~

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by RageAgainstFascism
I think that sums it all up:

Macho Man vs. Sissy-Boy

This is why Obama had to cancel his meeting with Putin - he visited this website on his Ipad after it was sent both to Obama and Putin, simultaneously, by Snowden.

Originally posted by Merinda

Originally posted by crazyewok
America land of the oppressed

Guess the USA and UK spent all that time fighting the NAZIS in world war 2 for nothing. We may have well surrenderd then as we lost our freedoms anyways, just took longer for them to die.

Or not have them in the first place. America did not enter the war to stop Nazi Germany. They entered the war to stop the soviets at Berlin. Many Nazi war criminals were recruited to conduct their work on Americans. I guess you have to commend America for not singling out blacks as guinea pigs under MK Ultra and its predecessors.

As you can see, it wouldnt be the worst thing that ever happened under an administration.

What about the bombing of London?

What about the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor? You don't think that these attacks had anything to do with the US entry into WWII?

According to Joseph P Farrell, Hitler invaded the Soviet Union as a preemptive strike. In other words, Stalin was getting ready to invade Western Europe and Hitler went in to stop it. Hitler would never have waged a war on two fronts unless he had been forced to.

They were smart to gobble up as many of the Nazi scientists as they could for our use. Or the Soviets would have. Unfortunately, I don't think our government kept close tabs on most of them (there were thousands of them turned loose in the US).

We also had our own homegrown evil doctors for MK Ultra.

The Nazis created the US space program.

Originally posted by Tharamis
Sadly they are going after Snowden hard...

Snowden accepted asylum so long has he didn't leak anything more. He thought he was good to go because others had his info and it was them that would leak it. Unfortunately as soon as he left that Airport he was checkmated. He can't leak anything otherwise he gets his papers pulled and Russia sends him back to the US. His only leverage he has is the fact that he has these documents and more importantly others have these documents!

The Shakedown:

Snowden has stated that TOR was secure and he used it, stated that in Chat logs on Arstechnica, As you all know the FBI came in and took down Freedom Hosting due to Childporn. They installed a Java based malware that compromises your MAC address and other information the moment you logged on to the secure site. All good for a Pedo site (nail the bastards) but the little bit of information that seems to not be repeated too much is that they installed this on ALL sties on Freedom Host... including TOR Mail and legit sites.

My guess is the Pedo bust was just to get into freedom hosting and the are tracking a site there that either has/had the documents or a place where they communicated about it. By compromising the location of the people going to those sites they now can now know one half of the equation and send men in Black SUV's or Seal Team 6 to those people and retrieve what they have.

The second half of the equation is the people they don't know of, people not using TOR but have the documents. So either you compromise his very secure email or you take it down. By taking it down you effectively force him to communicate outside the secure network he built before he left, hopefully giving you a trail of crumbs. Lavabit had both client and web based email... was he just using the webmail version in case his computer was compromised? If so does he have everyone's email that needs? If he didn't that could prove trouble sum to rebuild your network without compromising the very people you are trying to protect.

Whats out is out and what he gave to some reporters is still going to come out, but maybe not all of it will come out. Maybe the heavy stuff that is keeping him alive he only shared with a few because of it's sensitivity. The US only needs to get to those individuals before they and Russia feel safe in taking him down.

Very interesting info. I will be surprised if Snowden has a long life.

Originally posted by ForteanOrg
[
If they were right, they should publish their debit card number and pin code. They should tell everybody on the Internet (as some poor sods actually do!) that they will leave for a long trip abroad and not be surprised when they find their homes looted upon arriving back. Even more so if they did not feel the need to keep the code of their alarm system a secret. They should tell everybody that they are gay, especially if they are part of a football team or live in a fundamentalist state or country. They should openly admit being attracted to their fourteen year old neighbour girl, even if they would not even dream of doing something to her. They should inform the masses about their masturbation practices. They should tell all where they hide that gun they (legally) obtained and the code of the strongbox they put it in, so somebody else can fire the gun and blame them. They should accept that everybody knows how poor or rich they are, hence enabling thugs to select their targets more easily. They should tell everybody to which schools their children go, especially if they are wealthy, and of course by which means, especially if the child will walk or bike by itself. They should demand that information about their health be public, so the insurance companies can select only rich, healthy people to insure. They should make sure everybody knows they are American Christians, making them easier targets for fundamentalist fools. They should allow everybody to obtain their DNA, so we can set them up if we commit a crime. And indeed, the State should be the first to know it all, as history proves that States are run by a very special type of being, the Uebermensch, who is always trustworthy, has no personal interest in you and your data, will always obey the will of the people and will guarantee that your data can not fall into the wrong hands at all costs. Like Snowden, Assange etc. QED.

Heck, yeah, what are you hiding there, you must be doing something wrong!

So true. It really bothers me that they're collecting DNA and encouraging people to have their genes checked (genomic testing) for their own good. You know -- to see if they're genetically predisposed to certain cancers.

And then there's the Obamacare nightmare of having your medical records online and hackable.

I was on a non-medical site researching something, when a window suddenly pops up demanding to know if I have diabetes: "Do you have diabetes?" it asked. "None of your business" was not offered as an option.
I do not have diabetes, so I could click "No" honestly, but I could not believe the invasiveness.

So our medical info is being collected online, not just our shopping habits.

Originally posted by 1loserel2
reply to post by topdog81

 

How in the world did we let TPTB have so much power.

Sad day. We shouldn't have fallen asleep at the wheel.

Certainly is not what the average person expects to happen when they vote someone into office.

People have been warning us for decades -- for over 50 years, but they were dismissed as the "tin foil hat brigade." Granted some sounded like real loonies, but some conspiracy theorists were well-educated and had done serious research. The theories were too disturbing. Who wants to believe that they do not live in the world they think they live in? Who wants to believe how sinister the PTB really are?

Some believe that Ian Fleming was actually trying to tell us things thru his pulp novels.

I know I must sound like a "fringe nutter" to most people, certainly to those outside ATS.

So let's see! Snowden uses this web site, and it's shut down. And he's sleeping with the Russians now.....

Originally posted by deadcalm
reply to post by cenpuppie

 

I really cant agree that its the poor that fight to defend their rights. For the poor every day is an excercise in just trying to survive...they dont have the means or the power to fight.

As I see it the true arbiters of power in any Democracy, are the middle class. They are just comfortable enough, and have enough means and time to protest for change. This is why Obama and Co. are doing their level best to gut the middle class. The rich are the beneficiaries of Government favour and largess, therefore they have a vested interest in maintaining the staus quo.

In closing, the US is an empire in decline....and as history has repeatedly shown, at some point the people become the enemy of a power class bent on it's own survival and primacy. All the weapons your tax dollars paid to develop will now be turned against you because you are now the greatest threat they face.

This man that owns this web service has shown that there are still good people willing to fight rather than give into the governments bullying tactics. I hope that there are a lot more like him willing to do the same....or we can kiss what little freedom we have goodbye.

Yes, a large, prosperous, powerful middle class is the backbone of a democracy -- which is why it had to be destroyed. They've been turning us into a Third World country bit by bit for the last 20+ years.

A Third World country has a handful of VERY rich people at the top, a small, powerless middle class (who are servants to the rich), and masses of dirt poor.

But this isn't just an empire in decline. Not this time. The PTB want control of the entire world. They have no loyalties to any particular nation -- which is why people who want to protect their nation's sovereignty are considered "enemies of the state," the New World Order, the One World Federation.

We can delay what they have planned. They usually do things in small increments. If there's too much push back they will back off -- for a while and wait for a more conducive time.

I don't think they will have to wait long. It's been almost 12 years since 9/11. That means that people under the age of 24 have no clear memory of what the US was like before 9/11. The young will be easy to manage -- they've been indoctrinated in the public schools. The children of the rich who received truly excellent educations in private schools will be seen as the enemy.

Already more than half the children in the US under age 5 are non-White. It will be very visible in ten years when this batch hits their teens. The fastest growing segments of this country are non-Whites from very foreign cultures. They have no connection (either racial or cultural) to the Europeans who colonized this country -- the "Founding Fathers." These people have very different values from what we think of as "American."

In 30 years (probably less) this country will be unrecognizable.

Originally posted by bigfootgurl

Originally posted by ForteanOrg
[ And indeed, the State should be the first to know it all, as history proves that States are run by a very special type of being, the Ubermensch, who is always trustworthy, has no personal interest in you and your data, will always obey the will of the people and will guarantee that your data can not fall into the wrong hands at all costs. Like Snowden, Assange etc. QED.

Actually, the Ubermensch would be more likely to follow his own will than that of the herd.

ForteanOrg knows that: "that States are run by a very special type of being, the Ubermensch...."
In other words, the Ubermensch are at the top of the pyramid, running the show. The rest is pure sarcasm.

Seems Lavabit was just the start, now another one has gone the same route, Silent Circle, and for the same reasons. The war has begun and it just goes to show, the government ain't playing friendly:

rt.com...

From the site:

Callas added that Silent Circle plans to continue its encrypted phone and text services, but will be shuttering their email offerings beginning next Monday.

So that must mean that the NSA has already figured out a way to decrypt phone and text services, right?

Edit: what's also interesting, it seems that with every word Obama is saying, it appears the opposite is the truth. The government of the U.S. seems very much into domestic surveillance

reply to post by crazyewok


The Nazis won then, was there ever a surrender signed? think about it, Nasa Google, shmit. O yeah the catholic church. Aint over yet, but nearly. Those who can still cut through the BS are the one exposing the corruption of Roman catholic church its on its last legs and now has lost credibility (and power) amongst Europe and has chose SA since that is now where their new customer base is, the cartels killers need forgiven too o but yeah, its the jesuits now in charge (the illuminiati) so as not to confuse people with this term by the way it is a euphamism not 13 guys in cloaks, its the opponents of ignorance, the exposers of decievers, whilst founded on the bases of completing the crusades the jesuits actually desire knowledge and truth. They founded modern egpytology (which fcuked the conservative line a bit no? now apparently aesthiest are not excluded from heaven, nor gays. I said on the day new pope was elected. "the illuminati are on the throne" I stick by that statement

America doesn't negotiate with terrorists. It just provides asylum and immunity from prosecution to war criminals, without which they would never have made it to the moon or built Stealth fighters.

Operation Paperclip

Safe Haven

Originally posted by bigfootgurl

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

Originally posted by dominicus
WOW!!!!!
United Stazi of America....it's like we're living in Hitler controlled Germany!!!!!
I simply cannot EFFIN BELIEVE that these types of acts are going on in American which is supposed to be built on the constitution.
I want to throw up right now and think I will......Uncle Sam is a little beeatch!!!!!

Nazi Germany Tyranny

Congo Tyranny

American Tyranny

dear god you poor people, how will you survive?

Stop begin so damn melodramatic. The website was facilitating someone breaking the law.
Just because we agree with him, (and I do) doesn't mean he wasn't breaking the law.
There are thousands of email servers out there he can use..

You all crying like the world is coming to an end its pathetic.. its like the boy crying wolf but on grand scale.
Your acting like children. There are real issues out there, real problems that deserve our attention..
yet, an internet email account going offline is what makes you cry and moan about liberty?

.. First country to invade America wins.. you guys have really got major social issues!

How dare you put things in perspective. Seriously, great post. People on here do tend to exaggerate...and get indignant when you point it out to them.

Also, I like how the fat kid is sitting one foot away from the TV and is still using the remote.

You seem to be forgetting guantanamo bay, or the treatment of prisoners in iraq & afganistan.
The approved torture methods of the last administration. You are not very far from the images you posted, so complacency isnt really appropriate right about now.
Or would you rather I say "there is nothing to see here, move along" because all is good in the good ole US of A.
If you like living in dreamworlds maybe you shouldnt get out of bed.
If 911 was an inside job, IF, then isnt that just as bad as the burning of the reichstag? Or even worse considering how many people died.
Thats why they say to know your past is to know your future, because our unimaginistic leaders that employ these tried and tested techniques of control and mind manipulation, do it over and over again.
If you cant see the writing on the wall, then maybe you should learn how to read it.

reply to post by AuranVector


Well said mate