Muhammad never preformed a single miracle his entire life

Persons who claim to perform miracles are simple entertainer or performing artist who creates illusions, sleight of hand, deceptive devicesof impossible or supernatural feats. This is done as a distraction, to wow you into believing in lies or anything but the truth. We should be wary of any individual who needs to convince you by performing miracles, magic, illusions or prophecy.
If you are enlightened and/or of god-like status then your primary purpose is to pass on the knowledge to others to achieve said enlightment. Therefore that individual would teach you how to walk on water, how to make the dead arise, how to make water into wine, how to cure illnesses, how to study and manipulate the “laws” of nature because it is only through knowledge that one becomes truly enlightened.

reply to post by LUXUS


There are documented many MUSLIM Sufis FOLLOWERS OF Muhammad who have performed your precious miracles.
But Sufis (followers of Muhammad) who were gaining gnosis when Christians were burning people at the stake, down play miracles because the mind of the lower human often views them in the wrong light.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
Just to lighten the thread slightly here is a scene from the Life of Brian (We can make this without getting stoned),
www.bing.com...

Talking of getting stoned here is another,
www.bing.com...

And as for religious freedom fighters,
www.bing.com...

Suicide terrorists (pre explosives)
www.bing.com...

Now i have lost any moral high ground I think i will skidadle for a while and watch out for the stone's.
However to my fellow christians brian keeps saying he is not the messiah.

stoning is the law of Christianity and Judaism. moreover it needs harsh pre conditions.
anyhow people do not have to perform an adultery in public. do they !?

reply to post by LUXUS


You are distorting the verses
You have probably gotten your info from the many muslim hating sites that distort.

Not a single verse of the Quran says that the earth is flat. The Quran only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet.

Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Quran describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Quran is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later.

islamicresponse.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by Willtell
reply to post by LUXUS

 

You are distorting the verses
You have probably gotten your info from the many muslim hating sites that distort.

Not a single verse of the Quran says that the earth is flat. The Quran only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet.

Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Quran describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Quran is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later.

islamicresponse.blogspot.com...

And you are obviously just brainwashed by the paedophile drug abusing warmonger's 'religion'

It's a book, written by a known magic mushroom and heroin user...
Who was also a murderer and a paedophile...
It copied massive sections from the 'current' (at the time)religious books,
Then gave a drug addled minds view on the rest,

Simple as that really.

If you can put your faith in a child rapist,
Then you're not really the sort of person wanted in a sensible discussion

Originally posted by AmmonSeth
And you are obviously just brainwashed by the paedophile drug abusing warmonger's 'religion'
It's a book, written by a known magic mushroom and heroin user...
Who was also a murderer and a paedophile...
It copied massive sections from the 'current' (at the time)religious books,
Then gave a drug addled minds view on the rest,
Simple as that really.
If you can put your faith in a child rapist,
Then you're not really the sort of person wanted in a sensible discussion

we are brainwashed by the religion of Moses who stood against Pharaohs and religion of Jesus who stood against corrupted leaders of Israel tribe and Muhammad who stood against the corrupted elites of Mecca, emperors and superstitions.
let the corrupted clerics rape each other in their churches mosques or synagogues.
ocean will not get polluted by the mouth of those dogs.

Originally posted by AmmonSeth

And you are obviously just brainwashed by the paedophile drug abusing warmonger's 'religion'

Paedophile, drug abusing and warmonger? Oh yes that sounds like the government to me.

Originally posted by babloyi

Originally posted by Fromabove
"Is anything too hard for me..." (Quran) on birth of Isa. If then therefore God created Isa as He did Adam how is Isa not God's son. And if Isa was created by the will of God, and God is Spirit, how then is it that such a conception was not the holy act of God's Spirit? Yet you still deny Isa (Christ) and say that He was just a man. That's because of the contradiction in the very words of the Quran itself.

I don't deny anything. Just because I created a computer program, doesn't mean it is my son. Is Adam God's son? If yes, then sure, so is Jesus, so am I, so are you, and so is everyone.

Originally posted by Fromabove
From the book of Daniel "the Prophet".
"And he shall think to change the times and the laws (Sharia law) and shall divide the land for gain (destruction of Israel). And he shall exalt himself up against the God of Gods and the Prince of the host(Jesus).

Sounds like European Colonialism to me, actually. Even the part about "exalting himself above God of Gods and Prince of the host"- You know what "host" means, right? ARMIES. For WAR. European Colonialism did quite well in indoctrinating itself and its colonies into servitude without needing all that much war.

Ok, now, since we finally can admit that Isa (Jesus) is God's Son like Adam was, and that God being a Spirit did conceive (cause to exist) Isa (Jesus) by His Spirit. Than we can finally admit that the Father of Isa (Jesus) is God and that Isa (Jesus) is the Son of God. Right? Yes. Even your Quran has stated it so. When a woman is found with child, that can only happen through conception.

Now you and I have an earthly Father, but Isa (Jesus) has a Father who is God. Adam, while being called the son of God for God created him from dust, was made directly from the earth, and God breathed life into Adam. Isa (Jesus) was born in the womb of a woman made from human flesh in whom was the Spirit of God.



The term host in Daniel refers to Jesus Christ and the armies of heaven not earth. Sharia law is foreign and so opposite to anything Christian that the change would be drastic.

reply to post by Fromabove

Originally posted by Fromabove
Now you and I have an earthly Father, but Isa (Jesus) has a Father who is God. Adam, while being called the son of God for God created him from dust, was made directly from the earth, and God breathed life into Adam. Isa (Jesus) was born in the womb of a woman made from human flesh in whom was the Spirit of God.

So...you're saying Adam is more directly son of God than Jesus? Huh...okay.

Originally posted by Fromabove
The term host in Daniel refers to Jesus Christ and the armies of heaven not earth. Sharia law is foreign and so opposite to anything Christian that the change would be drastic.

This history in the Old Testament disagrees with you, but it doesn't matter. I doubt anyone will care about differentiating whether Jesus leads an army of humans or an army of angels to a mass slaughter on earth in the end times. And his "rule with an iron rod" will have stuff a lot stricter than anything sharia has to offer.

reply to post by AmmonSeth


You are a disgusting and ignorant religious bigot.
You have no knowledge of Muhammad, true history or Islam, and only use the words of religious haters who slander Muhammad.

It is you who is not fit mentally for a discussion of religious views and should be banned from this site, IMO.

reply to post by Willtell

While I don't disagree with you, that was probably the reaction he was egging on and hoping for.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Fromabove

 

Originally posted by Fromabove
Now you and I have an earthly Father, but Isa (Jesus) has a Father who is God. Adam, while being called the son of God for God created him from dust, was made directly from the earth, and God breathed life into Adam. Isa (Jesus) was born in the womb of a woman made from human flesh in whom was the Spirit of God.

So...you're saying Adam is more directly son of God than Jesus? Huh...okay.

Originally posted by Fromabove
The term host in Daniel refers to Jesus Christ and the armies of heaven not earth. Sharia law is foreign and so opposite to anything Christian that the change would be drastic.

This history in the Old Testament disagrees with you, but it doesn't matter. I doubt anyone will care about differentiating whether Jesus leads an army of humans or an army of angels to a mass slaughter on earth in the end times.

edit on 14-8-2013 by babloyi because: (no reason given)

Actually, what I am saying (and that the Quran indicates) is that Isa (Jesus) IS the Son of God where Adam who was created from dirt was given life by God. Isa (Jesus) was conceived in the womb and has a mother who was human and God's Spirit is in Him. That's what I and the Quran are saying. Adam was only called the son of God because he had no earthly father. But he was formed from the earth. Isa (Jesus) was conceived from a woman.

Now, how can a good muslim deny what the Quran has written? Can you deny that Isa (Jesus) is the Son of God and that God is His Father? Else how do you suppose Mary was found with child. If you say by a man you then say that allah is a liar for he says to Myriam "Is anything too hard for me?" And if your god is a liar because you deny that God is the father of Isa (Jesus) why follow him? How do you reason away this great contradiction?

reply to post by Fromabove

I'm sorry, I don't see the contradiction at all. Jesus was born of virgin birth. Nothing in the Quran about God being his father.
The Quran likens Jesus to Adam. So either they'd both be sons of God (in the sense you're trying to make it), or neither would be.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Fromabove

 

I'm sorry, I don't see the contradiction at all. Jesus was born of virgin birth. Nothing in the Quran about God being his father.
The Quran likens Jesus to Adam. So either they'd both be sons of God (in the sense you're trying to make it), or neither would be.

Who was Adam's mother, any guesses? And how do you suppose that Adam became alive? But I understand you to be saying that Isa (Jesus) is the Son of God by virgin birth and that God is His Father, is that correct? Have we settled that part?

reply to post by Fromabove

Have we? I just told you that the Quran says nothing about God being Jesus's father (and in fact vehemently denies such a thing).
Who was Adam's father?

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Fromabove

 

Have we? I just told you that the Quran says nothing about God being Jesus's father (and in fact vehemently denies such a thing).
Who is Adam's father?

If I take your own quotes to me, you yourself have said that God is the father of Adam and of Isa (Jesus). Now if God is not the father of Isa (Jesus) where is the man to whom we might attribute it to for whom allah has declared "Is anything too hard for me?" Was it then too hard for allah to be the father of a man born of a virgin birth? Does allah have limits to which he cannot excel ?

The fact that the Quran both claims that God is the Father of Isa (Jesus) and yet denies it afterwards is exactly what I am talking about.

allah cannot be an all powerful God because he cannot do this one thing. It is then too hard to do, even for allah. This is what you are now saying after you just admitted to me that God was indeed the Father of Isa (Jesus)?

So in Islam you can have tow separate truths that each contradict the other, Hmmm.

Many of you people here aught to be ashamed of yourselves. You can’t have an intelligent conversation about religion without defaming, slandering, and offending other people’s beliefs and each other.

You can criticize within the context of civil respect otherwise you reveal yourselves to be of the mentality of criminals and the mentally impaired in my opinion.

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are religions that billions of people adhere to and great people of all races believe in therefore they have inherent merit though they are flawed as institutions where humans create.


As far as Islam and Muhammad, you have to take into consideration that this was pre-modern times and the societal paradigms that we have are vastly different from those times.

This is the age of the Semitic pre-modern traditions where marital norms wher vastly different from today.

Look in the Bible where you have holy prophets doing things similar to what he did and that would get you arrested today. Back then it was different.

Muhammad was of the same age, the pre-modern era where the social norms of society were different from the modern western norm.

reply to post by babloyi



I have to go offline for a time, but I just want to tell you that of all the muslims I have debated I consider you to be a worthy debater who at least makes pointed arguments on what he believes as do I for my part. I look forward to continued discussion with you. Until then, you have the floor.

reply to post by Fromabove

Well, that is an incredibly silly approach to take.

Can God create a stone so heavy he can't lift it? Can God (God forbid ) punish a man for the sins of his father? Or reward the guilty and punish the innocent? Or manifest as a man and participate in a huge homosexual orgy? Or go against his own word? OH NO BUT IF HE CAN'T (or more likely won't) THEN HE'S NOT OMNIPOTENT!

EDIT: But thanks for that! See you when I see you.