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Fukushima: Pacific Ocean poisoned, millions at risk?

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posted on Aug, 8 2013 @ 08:35 PM

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
I get the Fukushima thing to a point.

But it seems everyone forgets that the US A repeatedly dropped nuclear bombs on the Bikini Atoll and water was obviously contaminated then.

Short memories, or it doesn't count if the US did it?

In some ways you are right, however, in an atomic or nuclear blast, most of the fuel is consumed and its energy liberated in an instant. While the 'residual' radiation from those explosions remains, its not going to grow any worse because there is no 'engine' driving it. (Engine is not the best analogy but...)

One of the reasons Tschernobyl is less of a disaster, is that the core did melt and break out of its containment. As it did so, it accumulated other materials into its mass, those materials eventually reached a point where they started to negate the fission chain reaction, dropping the heat needed to sustain fission. While the 'Elephants Foot' (their nickname for the corium) is still dangerously radioactive, it's not going to spontaneously regain criticality.

However, TEPCO's meltdowns are water cooled (1&2) which means that should they lose water going onto the melted cores, it's likely that the the fission reaction would resume with a vengeance. As for reactor #3, my best guess is that part of a fuel rod or chunks of it, may reside in the guts of the reaction chamber or cooling torus, and that the recent steam events seen there are likely caused by those chucks getting close enough to initiate fission. (micro-meltdown)

I can see one or two possible solutions for reactors #1 & #2, one of which revolves around deliberately initiating the meltdown and allowing it to bleed down into a prepared mixture of sand, lead, steel, titanium, aluminum, and boron in order to deliberately create an 'Elephants foot.' (Followed by entombment.)

The other involves a massive effort to drain the water table and in the process of such, back fill the basements and tunnels with real cement and then once all the leaks are filled and stopped via the cement, work to ensuring the cooling of 1 & 2 continues and that redundant systems are built to ensure continued cooling.

One other possibility is to fill the reactor chambers & torus' of 1&2 with powdered boron, lead, sand and aluminum as a watery slurry, and allowing the reactor to reheat such that those materials act as a top down plug when the corium mass exits as a new elephants foot, also would act as a cap for the reactor.

Reactor #3- empty the spent fuel storage pool, then bulldoze and entomb it.

Storage pool #4, Empty it post haste, entombing it may not be necessary, but prudent in any case.

The other mess is getting the large spent fuel cool pool, (not far from #4) emptied and drained/ sealed.

Ideally the path to to undertake this should be:
1- Combined storage pool emptied.
2- #4 Cooling pool emptied.
3- #3 Cooling pool emptied, remaining structure bulldozed and entombed.
4- #1 & 2 cooling pools emptied.
5- #1 forced into meltdown and rendered 'inert' via an 'elephant foot' process.
6- #2 same as #1
7- Entombment of 1 & 2 should be planned for completion at the same time. As to reduce continued exposure of clean up crews.
8- Long term containment process and life time decontamination process of the site and region would continue.

I've sent many a long hour brainstorming on this mess, sorry if its wordy.


edit on 8-8-2013 by Moshpet because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 07:18 AM
reply to post by R_Clark

Always with the doom and gloom around here. No, this is not an "Extinction Level Event." Yeesh...

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 07:45 AM
reply to post by Moshpet

You have a sorta good understanding of what is going on there. Frist I would like to correct you its not heat which is needed to create a chain reaction. It's a critical mass and a moderator. Usually h2o or d2o is used for the moderator. Also fuel rods reaching critically is unlikely to be the cause of these steam events. The fuel and reactor are still hot from the decay heat that persists after fission has stop, and they will be for another 3 years or so that's why they have to keep pouring water on it. Also not to be rude, but creating another melt down is a very bad isea. The containment on all the reactors has been breached. You will just create more fission products which is far worse than the unused fuel. It will cause a lot of heat and give off radioactive gasses that would escape into the atmosphere. Also you can't just restart the melted fuel you have to have the right geometry mass and moderator to start a fission reaction, so its not that simple. Also the glass/fuel mixture in Chrenobyl is starting to pit from exposure to humidity and water if its not cleaned up it will eventually find its way into the environment. Fukushima is a real mess but we are not gonna fix it by making a bigger ones. Also #4 & #3 fuel pools are priority #1. All those buildings are unstable from the earthquake and tsunami and might crumble if another large one hits. #3 is more damaged but #4 has more fuel. 85x as mush Cs137 as Chrenobyl released. Hope this was informative and helpful
edit on 9-8-2013 by BriGuyTM90 because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 08:17 AM
I wonder how many doom porn or dream/prediction posts are going to pop up featuring a tsumani spreading radioactive ocean water.

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 08:24 AM
This should have been a all hands on deck type affair with the best people in the field working on a solution. Instead the world got TEPCO, the same clowns that helped create problem, on the job to fix it. The year 2 review makes a statement on their work and progress.

Silly humans. We deserve what damage happens.

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 09:27 AM
reply to post by jadedANDcynical

Uninspiring response to my email.
They provided the FDA's phone number: (Phone: 1-888-463-6332) and a link to their Japan 2011 website.

This site indicates that a whooping 40% of seafood imports were screened for gamma-ray emitting radionuclides, and that none were found in imported species between 21 March 2011 and 25 April 2011.
Not exactly reassuring. It doesn't indicate whether screening is ongoing.

Only 1% of seafood imported to the US is directly received from Japan, but what about fish that migrate from Japan to the eastern Pacific, such as tuna?
Here is what the 2 page pdf had to say:

To date, no significantly elevated radiation levels have been detected in migratory
species, including North Pacific albacore.
(bolding is mine)

Unfortunately, the report isn't dated.

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 09:55 AM
reply to post by Olivine

That's about what I expected from our illustrious protection agencies.

Imagine if you could get away with performing less than half of your job and being able to bill the full amount...

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 10:46 AM

Originally posted by jadedANDcynical
reply to post by Chamberf=6

The main difference between the nuclear tests and Fukushima is that in the nuclear explosions the greatest majority of the nuclear material was converted ti energy. At Fukushima, the material is still there fissioning and spitting out poisons by the ton

Actually, very little of the fissile material in a nuclear weapon's physics package gets converted into energy. Take a quick look at the mass / energy relationship, in particular the magnitude of the last term. Most of the energy released in a nuclear weapon is nuclear potential energy, not matter-to-energy conversion.

It's also highly unlikely that there's significant fission still going on in the material from Fukushima. There probably *is* significant decay heating going on, but actual fission has probably been damped out long before now.

This contamination has indeed been flowing in to the ocean from day one, even before the tsunami arrived.

The material is being dispersed in the ocean not diluted by it, each and every particle is just as radioactive, they're just being spread far and wide by the currents.

That's exactly what 'dilution' is. When a chemical spill gets diluted in water, the individual molecules are just as toxic as ever, but they're being spread out through a larger volume. Unless you believe in homeopathic medicine, that makes them less toxic in any given volume. The same principle applies to radioactive material. As it's diluted, it will become less dangerous...which isn't the same thing as 'not dangerous', but is an improvement.

Bioaccumulation is what has to be considered. Not just having these elements in the environment. They remain dangerous for decades, some of them for millennia.

And some of them remain dangerous for hours, days, or weeks.

I'm not pointing these things out to be a smart ***, or to try to claim that this situation isn't a problem. It is a problem, and a potentially serious one. The best way to deal with serious problems, though, isn't to panic, exaggerate the issues, and make things sound worse than they are. What's needed is calm (or at least accurate) discussion, understanding of the actual situation, and an active avoidance of hysteria.

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 10:53 AM
All those rods should have been hauled away a year and a half ago, they are making this thing a lot worse. There should be an international "Fire Department" that can deal swiftly with these things and take care of the problems. A site can be made that can temporarily store these cores if this kind of case. We consistently mess up, we allow things to be done without an emergency crew formed to deal with things that can go wrong. They won't be able to think of every scenario, but the problems with cores like in Japan could happen almost anywhere.

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 11:34 AM
reply to post by R_Clark

How will we ever know if the fish from the Ocean is safe to eat again? This really messes things up big time. For over years this was covered up while people eat fish loaded with radioactive material.

Well, at leas they are admitting it now. They are going to have to deal with the ground water spilling out into the sea. Everything they are coming up with is not working. TEPCO is going to have to stop playing around and get this under control a bit better. Looks like time to running out.

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 12:09 PM
according to TEPCO, the amount of toxic waste OFFICIALLY being dumped into the Pacific Ocean is: 8 Million Pounds a Day, assuming some 3 Billion over the year we have 7-9 billion already dumped.

The flow of 8 million pounds a day will continue long after I am dead, as right now ONLY TEPCO is in charge, they lie, are broke and don't know what they are doing - could be making things worse.

The flow of 8 million pounds a day will continue long after TEPCO is out of business.

The flow of 8 million pounds a day will have little to no effect on the human population according to the officials, even when the cumulative total reaches some 30 billion in tens years.

The radiation from the flow of each days worth of radiation will not go away in the lifetime of anyone on the planet.

Things that are more important: the 250 terrorists around the world, syrian regime change, facebook, the newest cellphone, the khardashians children, snowden, the need to deny this is a problem.

Global attention to the problem, so small it can't be measured in any real terms.

People actually feel this isn't a problem, people who are in positions of control - any question about the notion that they hate humans?

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 12:50 PM

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle
why would you start another thread on the same subject? i'm finding it hard to see any difference in content.
edit on 8-8-2013 by LittleBlackEagle because: (no reason given)

Nothing wrong with starting another thread. It brings the issue up front again. It needs to be done! New information. The government now getting involved?! TEPCO saying all along that it was not a problem and that they were "dealing" with it. Well, apparently they can't. We should next week Japan asking for international help. And there should be! Sound like its getting completely out of control.
I've been watching this since it happened and the news has been limited, making one think its all ok. Ever since I wrote a paper about nuclear reactors dangers in the 70's I've had a bad feeling about these things.

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Spacespider
Does anyone really know how radioactive waste will behave in large amounts of water ?

They are going under the premise that it will dilute. To a certain extent, it's true but the radioactive sludg that will accumulate on the sea floor will remain dangerous for generations. Any future civilization digging up the sea floor around Japan will find a horrible mess.

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
I get the Fukushima thing to a point.

But it seems everyone forgets that the US A repeatedly dropped nuclear bombs on the Bikini Atoll and water was obviously contaminated then.

Short memories, or it doesn't count if the US did it?

Yes it was. This is more than likely magnitudes worse, due to the non-stop extended release of radioactive compounds into the environment that has happened for the last two years, and will continue to happen for the foreseeable future, with the situation possibly getting magnitudes worse if those structures collapse. There are already odd things happening with marine animals on the west coast of the U.S. and Canada. There are already heightened levels of radioactivity in produce. While the nuclear testing did contaminate the environment, it wasn't a non-stop pollution as the Fukushima situation is.

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 03:36 PM
The world's largest food supply is now contaminated by the Fukushima fallout. The oceans have been a toxic dumping site for centuries now.

No one actually does anything about it. The laws are bogus, I can get fined thousands if my boat drips a little fuel/oil yet the military, and big corporations can dump whatever they want into the oceans with no consequences.

If we keep doing what we do we will kill our oceans and billions will starve.

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 06:21 PM
This is insanity, No accountability whatsoever. They are slowly murdering us all, and all other life on planet Earth. The entire World should be joining together in order to find a logical solution to the problem. Where are all the yes men puppets that said everything is fine? What robot minded lunatics. Stupid humans. This is unbelievable, This is criminal. ~$heopleNation

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 06:29 PM

Originally posted by jaffo
reply to post by R_Clark

Always with the doom and gloom around here. No, this is not an "Extinction Level Event." Yeesh...

Perhaps not.... but if and when the shtf........will you be one of the people asking "why didn't someone tell us?"

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 06:44 PM

This is a pretty good video on the Subject.

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 06:47 PM
good thread. i think the title is good because it focuses what this is all about: millions at risk ?
i also find it interesting how the words "toxic waste" seem to have more impact than just saying "radioactive cooling water" or "trillions of bq"- those expressions seem to be designed to make it sound like its something cool and harmless "radioactivity" awesome - even "Strontium" sounds cool.
but toxic waste is what it is- and its not cool at all. good thread,good title good approach imho.
edit on 9-8-2013 by glowdog because: spelling errors

edit on 9-8-2013 by glowdog because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 9 2013 @ 06:51 PM

Originally posted by jaffo
Always with the doom and gloom around here. No, this is not an "Extinction Level Event." Yeesh...

I see one of the evil one's finally showed up? You're a liar Sir. How do you know if it's an extinction level event or not, are you a Physicist? What it is, is a slow death for Human Beings and all other life on this planet. You yes men puppets always come slithering out of your holes to spread your lies to the sheople. What the hell is wrong with you anyway? You need to fix your brain, this situation is not a joke. The Pacific Ocean is being poisoned. ~$heopleNation

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