Bedroom Tax Question

reply to post by destination now


"Maybe if all of the council house tenants had not bought their houses and sold them on to private landlords for a massive profit, there would be social housing available to rent!"

I completely agree on that score! Thank Mrs Thatcher for that one.

"In my area there is a serious shortage of social housing and as such I have always had to rent in the private sector (and pay for it) so you should consider yourself lucky to have a council house at all."

Not just your area trust me! I also have rented private property's in the past and had to pay thought the nose.

Why should I consider myself lucky? It took us bloody 10 years to acquire a Housing association property in the first place, now its too small and I require a larger home for me and my children which i'm probably not going to get any time soon. In all lightly hood I will have to go private again in the end so I cant really see what your trying to get at here.

Lucky??? I will consider myself lucky when our dam government provides adequate accommodation for its citizens thank you very much!

Perhaps a little historical perspective might offer an answer to this Bedroom Tax...

Have everyone sneak out during the middle of the night and dump their mattresses into the River Thames.

Oh well, just an idea

Originally posted by andy06shake


Lucky??? I will consider myself lucky when our dam government provides adequate accommodation for its citizens thank you very much!

Why is it the government's responsibility to house you and your children again? Someone remind me?

reply to post by andy06shake

I completely agree on that score! Thank Mrs Thatcher for that one.

Err, no...Thank all the (mainly Labour voting) tenants for that...buying homes at a fraction of their value and making huge profits...Thatcher gave people the opportunity to own their own homes, so that they had something to give to their children and to improve their position in life, not so they could make a fast buck.

but yes, I do agree there is a shortage of affordable housing, but yet again, personal greed is mainly responsible for that, with people viewing their homes as magical cash machines, that would continue to rise in price, no matter what..that was a huge part in the financial crisis, and continues to be as people hold onto the notion that their property can yield them huge returns, rather than just provide them with a secure roof over their heads for them and their families...(sorry that's my pet peeve..the over-inflated housing market, that outprices the majority of new buyers from ever owning their own home, allowing the private sector to inflate their prices on the basis that everyone needs a roof over their head and leaving few options for people like yourself to live in appropriate housing)

And the reason I say you are lucky to have a council tenancy is because you have an Assured Tenancy as opposed to a Short Assured Tenancy as is the norm in private housing.,.you cannot be evicted at the whim of your landlord, I can...your rent cannot be increased above the level of inflation and must be set at an agreed level..my landlord can charge what they like..so there is a big difference.

Originally posted by destination now
And the reason I say you are lucky to have a council tenancy is because you have an Assured Tenancy as opposed to a Short Assured Tenancy as is the norm in private housing.,.you cannot be evicted at the whim of your landlord, I can...your rent cannot be increased above the level of inflation and must be set at an agreed level..my landlord can charge what they like..so there is a big difference.

I have already stated I have in the past rented private accommodation so I am aware of the differences between Short Assured Tenancy and Assured Tenancy's.

I cant change what your landlord does to you, i certainly don't hold with there ideas of what a fair price for a property is so please dont be holding it against me just because I don't feel lucky regarding my situation.

Affordable accommodation should be a major priority for any government of this country, for all its citizens that require such, stands to reason.

Thatcher introduced the Right to Buy back in 1980.

Labour introduced the Right to Acquire for Assured Tenancy in 1997

So indeed it was Thatcher's Tory government who had the ball rolling for 17 years before Labour had there a hand in the equation .

reply to post by andy06shake


Yes, I know it was Thatcher's govt that introduced right to buy, my point was that the majority of the tenants who took advantage of the scheme, were (generally) lower paid, working class Labour voters..

The old saying that you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink, springs to mind here...Thatcher's govt did not force the tenants to buy their homes, just gave them the opportunity to do so, so maybe the tenants should have thought about the future generations before taking advantage of the scheme, buying their houses for peanuts, then selling them for vast profits...Thatcher did not do that, the tenants did, full well in the knowledge that by buying their home and then selling it at a profit, they were denying others the opportunity to have a tenancy on that property.

And of course subsequent Labour govts didn't do anything to alleviate the problem, in fact the massive housing boom, which continues to this day, occurred under their watch.

So they're all as bad as each other in my opinion.

reply to post by destination now


"So they're all as bad as each other in my opinion."

They sure as hell are!

I just want adequate accommodation for me and mine at an affordable price! Can it really be so far fetched to expect this from our Government in this day of age?

reply to post by khimbar


"Why is it the government's responsibility to house you and your children again? Someone remind me?"

Its our government's responsibility to provide adequate affordable housing for everyone not just me and mine! Or at least require that the private sector provide said accommodation. Not everyone can afford to buy you know, especially given the current financial climate!

Why should they not do so?

i have many friends in this position but your best bet is a swap as many older people are trying to get a smaller house in the same area .

what about a couch that morphs into a bed ? and use the sitting room yourselves at night in the meantime and get on gumtree in your area .

lucky you do not live where i do they hand young girls of 20 something 3 bedroom houses and put older blokes into bedsits .
one of my friends is going nuts in a tiny bedsit and cannot afford to get out as the private landlords are too expensive 5-600 for a 1 bed and 800+ for a 3 bed home with the local council only willing to pay £68 per week for him as he is single his whole giro would not cover the difference in rent never mind council tax etc .

i really am worried about my friend as the 2+ years he has been in bedsit land has gone to his head but it can take 10 years or more too get a 1 bed house if you are a single male .

if you are stuck in bedsit land who will swap with you and no private landlord will accept dhss as they are months behind in paying out in his 40 years on the planet he has been in bedsits for 6 years steady as his health is bad but was considered fit to work 2 years ago so you are quite lucky in some respects he has nobody and sleeps 18 hrs a day due to depression but cannot get a sicknote from the doctor .

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by khimbar

 

"Why is it the government's responsibility to house you and your children again? Someone remind me?"

Its our government's responsibility to provide adequate affordable housing for everyone not just me and mine! Or at least require that the private sector provide said accommodation. Not everyone can afford to buy you know, especially given the current financial climate!

Why should they not do so?

edit on 7-8-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

Repeating 'because they should' isn't answering why they should.

They shouldn't because it's none of the governments damn business to get involved in housing, or give people houses for having a child, or let people take money from other people in order to let them rent cheaper than the private sector houses. That's not what a government is for. It's what it's become but it's not what it's for.

Doubly irksome when people who are being free money to help them get a cheap rent insist on calling being given less free money a tax, when it's clearly no such thing.

Just a wee quote from the Human rights mob that the UK signed up to...

By ratifying the Covenant, member states have a legally binding obligation to progressively improve, without retrogression, universal access to goods and services such as healthcare, education, housing and social security and to ensure just and favourable conditions of work,without discrimination, in accordance with established international standards. These rights must be achieved by using the maximum of available resources.

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by khimbar

 

"Why is it the government's responsibility to house you and your children again? Someone remind me?"

Its our government's responsibility to provide adequate affordable housing for everyone not just me and mine! Or at least require that the private sector provide said accommodation. Not everyone can afford to buy you know, especially given the current financial climate!

Why should they not do so?

edit on 7-8-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

Dude, ignore these people saying its you're responsibility to sort out you're own housing - I'll bet they're either not from Britain or people who are well off enough to own their properties. Some people seem perfectly fine with the idea that you should have your benefit cut because there are not one bedroom homes for you to move into, or that you should be paying a landlord half your wage just to put a roof over your head.

The government has a responsibility to house people - THAT'S WHY THEY REBUILT HOUSING AFTER WW2.

Unfortunately many people are becoming victims of capitalism. It isnt in the governments interest to build any more house's (after selling them off in the 80's) They would rather not have that "cost" - and rather people have their hard earned cash extracted from them paying a shady landlord that contributes very little to society.

I feel for you and your situation and hope things fall in your favour.

Originally posted by andy06shake

edit on 7-8-2013 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

To put it bluntly....No chance.

I suggest, if you need a larger home....to go out and work harder to support the kids you brought into the world.
You think your kids deserve more space, then go out and work so you can provide such. The government isnt there to supply housing to every person who is irresponsible enough to bring kids into the world knowing they cannot provide for them.

Sorry it just really annoys me that people think that, they can do nothing, pump out kids and get large properties for nothing. There is a girl near me who now has 4 kids by 4 different dads all in the hope of getting rehomed in a larger flat......irresponsible parents....


Not much to add to this other than give yourself a shake and take a long look at yourself in the mirror

wow, this was a eye opener of a thread,
i thought walefare and people feeling entitled only
existed in the u.s.
guess its a global thing.

looks like the root of the problems of society are not isolated
to the bad U.S.

i was raised old school, no matter what fend for your self,
dont go begging the gooberment to take care of you.
make do, or do without.

reply to post by current93


"Not much to add to this other than give yourself a shake and take a long look at yourself in the mirror"

Have you even bothered to read the entire thread? I have a disability so i can only work in a limited capacity.

Obviously you're not from the United Kingdom or you would be aware of the fact that among other things our Government is supposed to provide adequate housing to its citizens. LoL

I do not have much to add to your response other than learn how to post properly. If you must quote other people please use quotation marks or the quoted post option. Edit is your friend!

reply to post by severdsoul


Difference is over here in the U.K our government is required to take care if its people at least when it comes to housing them. We also provide free national health care.

I don't want a free lunch just adequate accommodation for me and my children. Im not asking for the Moon on a plate or for anything that im not entitled to by law.

If you find that somehow too much to swallow that's your look out.

Maybe if your own "gooberment" cared a little more about its Social Welfare Programs and underprivileged citizens your nation would not be in the mess that it now seems to currently enjoy!

Little hint America, food stamps are not the answer!

Just a thought!

Originally posted by andy06shake
I don't want a free lunch just adequate accommodation for me and my children. Im not asking for the Moon on a plate or for anything that im not entitled to by law.

You do want a free lunch though, don’t you? You live in a house which is too small for your growing family. You have chosen to have a family which will outstrip your current accommodation and expect the government to re-house you.

That’s a free lunch. However, I don’t think you should not get it, but when your kids leave you should also downsize your house because your social need has also reduced.

I am a great believer in social housing and consider it a vital service for a government to provide a comprehensive welfare service. However, as a tax payer, I agree that it is also a responsibility of the government to ensure my tax is well spent, so welcome the current policy to reduce payments to people who insist in living in social housing that is bigger than their needs. It’s not a “bedroom tax”, and people who use that term clearly don’t understand what a “tax” is.

We live in a society where some people’s expectation of what they “deserve” is out of proportion to what the country can afford and not complementary to a wider test of fairness.

Regards

I also find it quite ironic that there is a general consensus on this site that the govt meddle too much in our lives, yet we want them to look after all of our needs when it suits...

Originally posted by destination now
I also find it quite ironic that there is a general consensus on this site that the govt meddle too much in our lives, yet we want them to look after all of our needs when it suits...

True, but the difference being those needs we expect them to look after are basic functions of why we bother to elect people into parliament. British society would soon fall if government denounced its responsibility to provide adequate housing, healthcare, education, transport and energy. Also if it decided it no longer needed to build and maintain road's, public buildings/area's (Library's, play grounds, parks etc)

Now, since the 80's the government has been privatizing many of these responsibilities - Transport, energy, selling off the housing stock, currently privatizing the NHS through the back door - All with the same results, Price's being inflated to the consumer while the service itself suffer's immensely for the good of profit. These being facts, you can see how people have much less disposable income than they did 20 years ago (Although yes, there are other factors that contribute to that)

But the point is simply this:
Here in the UK working people pay A LOT of tax directly to the government. Then we pay A LOT of money to private companies for basic services. This mean's people can no longer afford other services - Such as private housing. Land lords here would rather their house's sit empty rather than lower the price to make them affordable. We are now facing a generation of kids who wont be able to move out of their parents house's until their late 20's and that will only get worse if nothing is done about the housing crisis.

Also i would like to point out the effect of immigration. People who have migrated over here to work need to be housed and this again has put excess pressure on the system we have in place. It was so bad at one point a couple of years ago that immigrants were surpassing families that had been on the housing list YEARS.

The OP is just your average UK brit who cant afford to pay a private landlord a ridiculous amount of money for sub standard housing - Many landlords are shady and dont look after their properties. They just want the money, that's it. I have a friend who has a sh!t load of damp in the room she rents, you think the land lord did anything about it? NOPE.

Still collects the rent though.