Bedroom Tax Question

reply to post by Soloprotocol

Amberleaf, when you are in a hole, stop digging...

Hole?? I see no hole....all i see is differing opinion on a subject.

I dont agree with the OP's logic of, i have 2 kids i want a bigger home paid for by you as i cannot provide it myself....you clearly do. Is there any wonder why our country is such a mess when so many people have your opinion....i have kids, i cant provide.....holds hands out!

reply to post by skitzspiricy


"Can i ask, is your current property a council or housing association home, or are you privately renting?"

The flat i currently occupy is a housing association tenancy so essentially it's a council house. I have privately rented in the past and may have to do so in the near future.

Just need to get my 1st months rent and deposit together if I wish to pursue a private let again. LoL

Quite hard to do so considering our new addition.

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by skitzspiricy

 

The flat i currently occupy is a housing association tenancy so essentially it's a council house. I have privately rented in the past and may have to do so in the near future.

Have you looked into swapping with other housing association and council tenants? If you look on your housing association/council website, there should be instructions for you to be able to start up that process.

Originally posted by PW229
Unfortunately it's bad news m8. With both children under 10 you wouldn't even make it on to the waiting list. I understand your complaint that the small room is inadequate for two children but our glorious leader and his council minions have flat refused to give official guidance on what constitutes a "bedroom."

As I'm sure you're already aware, once your eldest child is over 10 and because they are boy and girl, the eldest will be eligible for a room of their own. That's when you will be accepted on the list.

There is a loophole however, if you arrange a council swap with someone looking to downsize then the rules do not apply. You will simply lose 14% of you HB until the eldest child is 10.

Cheers mate! I was considering doing just that, Lady down the stair is moving out of her 3 bedroom flat probably try and swap with her.

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by AmberLeaf

 

"Says the guy who cannot provide for his kids.....i can only see one person that looks bad here o.0"

I provide for my children just fine thank you very much. Maybe at the moment a cannot spring for an extra bedroom but I image rather a lot of folks are in the same boat.

Have fun on up on that high horse mate, just hope that you never fall down to everyone else's level.

When and if you do ever have some little ones I imagine your perspective could quite possible change as to what your entitlements should or should not be.

Maybe i was raised different to you, my brother has a kid....they didnt plan the kid but once they found out they were having a baby they spent the next 7 months looking for a house....to buy. His first call wasnt to the council asking for a house....it was to a mortgage company asking for a £300k mortgage, which he got and bought a 3 bed house with. They both have pretty decent jobs so there was no issues regarding such a large loan.

Im sure had they moved out of London they could have got a 3 bed house for half the price....£130k mortgage is achievable on £30k a year.

Im not on a high horse, just pointing out the reality of your situation as others would see it.

reply to post by skitzspiricy


"Have you looked into swapping with other housing association and council tenants? If you look on your housing association/council website, there should be instructions for you to be able to start up that process."

Woman down stair is moving away soon to another area, going to stay with her new partner. If she is willing to do a swap with me first, then move away a week later do you think that would fly?

I foresee a few problems in this area myself.

Thank for taking the time to reply by the way.

Originally posted by andy06shake
Hi I hope someone here can answer a questing I have pertaining to that evil swine Cameron's Bedroom tax.

The "evil swine" may actually be helping people like you who have too many children than you can reasonably house.

By introducing a disincentive for people who have support for housing to live in houses that are too big for their needs, they may move to smaller dwellings (still paid for by the State), thus allowing people who have larger families to move up the ladder.

The "evil swine" is doing you a favour, although I doubt you will recognise it.

Regards

reply to post by paraphi


"The "evil swine" may actually be helping people like you who have too many children than you can reasonably house."

I have two children buddy not a large brood by any manner or means by anyone's definition.

And using phrases like "people like you" is let's just say a touchy subject to say the least.

"The "evil swine" is doing you a favour, although I doubt you will recognise it."

Bedroom tax is a favour! You are correct in the assumption I most certainly do not recognise "The Bedroom Tax" as a favour!

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by skitzspiricy

 

Woman down stair is moving away soon to another area, going to stay with her new partner. If she is willing to do a swap with me first, then move away a week later do you think that would fly?

Probably not.

Your best bet would be to get on your housing association website and have a look into their homeswapping policy.

There should be a website where you can register yourself as wanting to swap, putting up a profile of your flat with pictures etc. They send you matches or you can search and then you can message that persons profile to see if they would be interested in a swap.

If you find someone that's interested, you view each others homes, and if you both want to swap you contact the relevant authority and get it in motion.

reply to post by AmberLeaf

My point to this is as follows, you are not entitled to a larger house funded by the taxpayer/government just because you pump out more kids

Actually....he is.....you may not like it....but he is.

Originally posted by khimbar
It's not a 'bedroom tax'. Tax is paid to someone by someone else.

They're not making you pay it to them. They're just not giving you as much free money.

Oh how I wish I could give you a thousand stars for that! I hate this nonsense term "bedroom tax" it is not a tax, it is a reduction in the amount of housing benefit paid to a claimant who is under-occupying a council property. The rules for housing benefit paid to claimants in the private sector has always been based on the number of bedrooms required and has always been subject to a maximum amount dependent on the local authority you are based in. For example, local authorities in the London area will pay more per bedroom, where rents are much higher than in my local authority in the west of Scotland where rents are significantly lower. So it's not about "taxing the poor" it's about creating a fairer system where those in the social housing sector are treated equally to those in the private rented sector.

As such, those who are forced to live in private rented accommodation, due to a lack of availability of social housing, have always had to pay a top up of rent to their landlord, as their rents are significantly higher than social housing rents.

To the OP, yes of course you will be considered for a larger property, subject to availability of the property and as your children will obviously keep getting older, at some point you will be entitled to the allowance for an extra bedroom (though my understanding was that this was taken into account and even at present you would be entitled) Also, all local authorities can make discretionary payments over and above your housing benefit whether you are renting privately or in local authority housing. So, I would recommend that you enquire at your local housing office, although they will not be able to give you a decision until you are actually making the claim for your new property as it is based on your personal circumstances.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by AmberLeaf

 

My point to this is as follows, you are not entitled to a larger house funded by the taxpayer/government just because you pump out more kids

Actually....he is.....you may not like it....but he is.

Well, er, no he is not....clearly, otherwise there would be no issue. He may be entitled later on, when the kids are older, but as of now....no he is not entitled to a larger home.

Under bedroom tax rules, you do not qualify for 3 bedrooms. Historically, exchanging with another tenant meant you could still get landlord consent/approval even if the property you want to move to is one bedroom larger than you would qualify for under housing needs rules. Some landlords no longer permit exchanges where one household would underoccupy the property. This policy is blanket in that social landlords cannot be seen to discriminate against tenants that are in reciept of benefit.

Those not in receipt of benefits may think this unfair as there are many underoccupiers who prefer to pay-to-stay rather than give up on the time and effort to make their rental accommodation into a home but landlords are not in the business of creating further underoccupied tenancies because they perceive the bedroom tax as a major threat to their main income stream (god forbid they lose a few executives and use the money saved to actually deny this foul unelected shower the satisfaction of this spiteful and heinious policy).

Unless your landlord does not have a new mutual exchange policy, your best bet may be to either wait it out until your eldest is ten or find an exchange partner whose second bedroom is large enough to accommodate both children.

Also, the 1985 Housing Act clearly lays out what a bedroom is. Can you imagine how much grief councils and housing associations will have if every tenant with a box room made a claim for a rent refund on the basis that what the property is defined as in their tenancy agreement is counter to what the law actually says? For decades, councils and social landlords have fudged this one, claiming that the '85 act only applies to private tenancies!

If you do move and 'go private' you are still stuck with the restrictions on property size and housing needs but at least you could look for a two bed with two receptions and use on of those as a bedroom.

If you exchange with someone who is planning on moving away anyway, you may find yourself subject to tenancy fraud investigations. Then again, your landlord may turn a blind eye so long as the rent is being paid.

On another note, some old aquaintences of mine had to share a bedroom growing up. As brothers, they were chalk and cheese and actually hated eachother. One day, one brother came home with a garden shed he had saved up for and erected it in the shared bedroom. He put a lock on the door and made it his own room within the shared bedroom! You probably couldn't manage that in a 10 by 8 but I just thought I would share what I thought was an ingenius way around a seemingly impossible situation.

reply to post by AmberLeaf

Well, er, no he is not....clearly, otherwise there would be no issue. He may be entitled later on, when the kids are older, but as of now....no he is not entitled to a larger home.

Actually.....you said "My point to this is as follows, you are not entitled to a larger house funded by the taxpayer/government just because you pump out more kids"

That's what I responded to....

reply to post by AmberLeaf


"Well, er, no he is not....clearly, otherwise there would be no issue. He may be entitled later on, when the kids are older, but as of now....no he is not entitled to a larger home."


Yes I do qualify for another house due to the small size of the bedroom, that's not the issue. Point is I will have to wait 3-5 years for an offer.

Given that my 7 month old child is at the foot of my bed I cannot wait 3 years, never mind 5.

So the option of a swap is probably my most viable solution in the near future.

I don't even mind the fact so much that the kids will have to share a room in the short term, but it would be nice if the room was big enough to swing a cat. LoL

Another suggestion for the OP, why don't you swap rooms with the kids? They could have the larger room and you and your partner could have the smaller room. Anywhere I have rented, I have always given the larger room to my daughter so that she has space for her toys and to play (or latterly so that she can have her computer desk etc) and as I only need a bed, wardrobe, chest of drawers and only use my bedroom for sleeping in, it makes no odds to me if my room is very small.

That might be an effective temporary solution for you until your kids are older and then they can have their own rooms.

Originally posted by destination now
Another suggestion for the OP, why don't you swap rooms with the kids? They could have the larger room and you and your partner could have the smaller room. Anywhere I have rented, I have always given the larger room to my daughter so that she has space for her toys and to play (or latterly so that she can have her computer desk etc) and as I only need a bed, wardrobe, chest of drawers and only use my bedroom for sleeping in, it makes no odds to me if my room is very small.

That might be an effective temporary solution for you until your kids are older and then they can have their own rooms.

We have actually considered swapping rooms but trust me its an 10ft by 8ft room and is in no way or fashion suitable for both me and my partner. Im not being picky trust me we just would not fit.

reply to post by andy06shake


Is it not better to inconvenience yourselves rather than your children having to make the sacrifice though? I have had to sleep in a room where you could only get out of bed on one side due to lack to space, but I would never have considered that my daughter should have less than me. It was my choice to bring her into the world and I don't see why she should have to make sacrifices so that I can be more comfortable...

reply to post by destination now


"Is it not better to inconvenience yourselves rather than your children having to make the sacrifice though?"

I don't mind inconveniencing myself. Trust me if I could swap rooms I would it's logistically impossible. We already have our wardrobes and chest of drawers in the living room so we can accommodate my little boys bed at the foot of our own. The flat is a shoe box to say the least.

"I have had to sleep in a room where you could only get out of bed on one side due to lack to space, but I would never have considered that my daughter should have less than me. "

That's a shame I hope you are in a better situation now. I would never wish any of my sibling to have less than myself, I would never even consider the notion.

"It was my choice to bring her into the world and I don't see why she should have to make sacrifices so that I can be more comfortable."

Choice is a fine thing and so is sacrifice but should not affordable and adequate council accommodation be available in this day of age for all?

Maybe if our government and local authorities released this most basic human need I and rather a lot of other people would not be in the predicament I seem to find myself.

reply to post by andy06shake

Choice is a fine thing and so is sacrifice but should not affordable and adequate council accommodation be available in this day of age for all?

Maybe if our government and local authorities released this most basic human need I and rather a lot of other people would not be in the predicament that i seem to be in.

Maybe if all of the council house tenants had not bought their houses and sold them on to private landlords for a massive profit, there would be social housing available to rent!

In my area there is a serious shortage of social housing and as such I have always had to rent in the private sector (and pay for it) so you should consider yourself lucky to have a council house at all.