Guard animals on the farm vs shooting problem animals yourself?

reply to post by TheRedneck


Armadillos stink!

One of the problems I've had is that they can smell for bugs. Because of this, they will burrow down along the foundation or slab of a building, and sort of trap their food along the impenetrable concrete wall. I know a guy who, unbeknownst to him, had termites in a cinderblock building(!) (it happens in TX). They found out because an armadillo started rooting out the foundations of the structure, apparently to eat the termites. ruined the building by undermining the corner of it on the lower side of the hill. The dillo actually moved enough dirt to cause the corner of the building to sag!

I have heard they will do the same to swimming pools if they can smell a leak where the soil is moist. They will drill under a swimming pool till the crack spreads due to lack of support.

I guess if the the human had given it a sandwich every day, it wouldn't have done that....

If you have a gun, why not shoot the animal that is the problem? why have your family pet get hurt or worse because of something you should do? They could assist you with helping track it or whatever, but personally I would not expect a dog to fight a mountain lion or a bear...

I'm no country gal by a mile but I have come to believe it's just plain wrong to feed wildlife at all be they predator or prey. When I lived in Casper Wyoming, there was a family that started to feed the deer. In a couple of years the deer population at their house was completely out of control, a traffic hazard, and the deer were getting aggressive...pushing their noses up to the windows of the house, begging food from the slowed cars, etc. Finally the Fish and Game Dept stepped in and put a halt to it.
My folks used to have bird feeders on their patio to watch the birds.....until a hawk swooped down, grabbed an oriole and perched on the back of a patio chair to eat it.
I have neighbors who leave food out for the animals because they believe (I'm not kidding) that all cats and other animals will starve to death if they don't feed them. So we have racoons, possums, and skunks stoping by for a bite every night....which attracts the coyotes, owls, and hawks. By day they feed the doves and the crows.
It's sort of a hot button with me...

reply to post by missvicky

It amazes me how many people seem to have disconnected from the fact that animals are not people. People can make a moral decision ("Should I do this?") based on beliefs and expectation of future consequences. Animals cannot do so. A dog will eat food placed in front of it, as long as it has not been trained (through selective positive and negative feedback mechanisms) to not eat it. A tomcat will mate with any creature which produces the correct pheromones to signal the mating (which is a female cat in nature). The dog is not interested and cannot understand that the food in front of it belongs to someone else, and the tomcat does not feel a moral obligation to the female cat he just interacted with.

These are human traits. Just as doves do not swim and grasshoppers do not build webs of silk, other animals do not share human traits. So if the dog and cat cannot make moral decisions, how much less can a wild animal make moral decisions? It can't; but it can learn how to adapt to its environment. A large part of that adaptation is finding out where good sources of food are... be that source an area of lush greenery, an area with plenty of prey, or a house that puts out food.

Unlike people, wild animals survive, alone and uncared for, by taking advantage of opportunities. Unlike people, they die by ignoring opportunities. And unlike people, they have no feelings of appreciation or loyalty and only care to use the opportunities they find to continue their survival. I wish, like you, that some people could understand that.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by nake13
reply to post by Mr Tranny

 

You could negate the requirement for posting "guard animals" or indeed killing any "predator" yourself by providing a safe and secure environment for any livestock for which you may be responsible.
Personally, I would provide food for the potential predators as they also have the right to life.

Many predators don't kill only when they're hungry. They're prey driven and go crazy killing chickens and such just for fun. Feeding wild predators isn't practical because it's in their blood to HUNT and kill. Putting a steak out every other day won't do the trick. People who have small livestock know this. It defeats the purpose if you're feeding your predators and not your family. Besides being costly, it attracts even more predators.

People could probably use multiple guard animals, a livestock guard dog, geese and a couple of goats might do the trick. As another poster stated, you can't guard your property 24/7 by yourself. Raccoons can tear through chicken wire like butter. If you have a large area and have many live stock, it's expensive to put up good wire for the whole area. A list of small predators may include raccoons, owls, coyotes, snakes, weasel, mink (anything of the weasel family is prey driven and they can enter through very small openings), hawks, opossums, dogs, skunks, cats and rats. Anatolia Shepherd and Great Pyrenees are two great livestock guard dogs but they need to be trained to stay with and watch the animals instead of letting them stay cozy on bed with you. Putting all the livestock animals in and up in a secure building at night will also help. The building should be completely secure so not even a mouse can get in. This means a good flat cement floor and a solid wood or metal building that can keep all predators out.

Why not just put up electrified fencing? Here's an example for protecting chickens.

reply to post by Mr Tranny


This post could be about two governments and it's people, however it isn't, and I agree it is morally and absolutely wrong. of the two methods described to solve the problem, then shooting is the most humane way, as in shooting it dead and not just causing injury, whereas with using an animal to kill another wild animal will not doubt most times lead to an animal wounded, and withdraw from the battle only to die a long lingering painful death in some ditch... it's amazing who comes up with these ideas, and even more amazing who the clot heads are that pass and reinforce such cruel solutions, if it can be referred to as a solution... people have made this world almost unliviable..

reply to post by InTheLight


I personally think electric fencing is a great idea, if coupled with a guard-dog.

Coyotes can jump over fence up to 5 ft tall if they can get a running start; even higher if there are cross-pieces or wire. I don't think the fence in the video would stop coyotes from just climbing over it unless the shock level is set cruelly high.

You cannot set it up beneath overhanging trees, because raccoons will climb the tree and drop into the chicken's yard. Raccoons will also just wear the fence out by having several of them climb over at once, and the middle one doesn't get shocked. (Really!) They will also just test a piece of fence until it stretches, falls down, or wears out. Which is why you need a dog to keep them from concentrating on the fence itself. The dog won't catch any raccoons, but he'll keep them from concentrating on breaking in.

Badgers of course will dig under it. They will burrow all the way under a chicken coop and and come up through the floor, like "The Great Escape," only in reverse.

Snakes are a problem too. Especially where the gate is. Snakes in Texas will strangle chickens. Of course the chickens will sometimes peck the snake to death if they have a rooster with them.

And then there's hawks.

reply to post by tovenar

A trick to dissuading hawks is to take CDs and hang them from wires suspended across the pen. The wind will make them wiggle and sunlight reflecting off the wiggling CDs will scare off the hawks.

I know people who actually went around to friends asking for old AOL CDs when they were being mailed out so much, just to use them on chicken coops.

Ain't technology wonderful?

TheRedneck

I feed my crows a bit of cracked corn, enoughso they see it as beneficial to keep the hawks and owls chased off. I had a big problem the owls toting hens off. No more. Crows are smart as can be tho. I consider them smarter than my dog.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by missvicky

It amazes me how many people seem to have disconnected from the fact that animals are not people. People can make a moral decision ("Should I do this?") based on beliefs and expectation of future consequences. Animals cannot do so. A dog will eat food placed in front of it, as long as it has not been trained (through selective positive and negative feedback mechanisms) to not eat it. A tomcat will mate with any creature which produces the correct pheromones to signal the mating (which is a female cat in nature). The dog is not interested and cannot understand that the food in front of it belongs to someone else, and the tomcat does not feel a moral obligation to the female cat he just interacted with.

These are human traits. Just as doves do not swim and grasshoppers do not build webs of silk, other animals do not share human traits. So if the dog and cat cannot make moral decisions, how much less can a wild animal make moral decisions? It can't; but it can learn how to adapt to its environment. A large part of that adaptation is finding out where good sources of food are... be that source an area of lush greenery, an area with plenty of prey, or a house that puts out food.

Unlike people, wild animals survive, alone and uncared for, by taking advantage of opportunities. Unlike people, they die by ignoring opportunities. And unlike people, they have no feelings of appreciation or loyalty and only care to use the opportunities they find to continue their survival. I wish, like you, that some people could understand that.

TheRedneck

I think it's even more basic than that. It's simple observation. If wild animals can survive on their own completely naked then they certainly don't need human support. I'm amazed my asshole neighbors don't sweaters for them! And every time humans involve themselves in the food chain (by feeding them), they put everything out of balance to the point of ridiculousness.

Originally posted by tovenar
reply to post by InTheLight

 

I personally think electric fencing is a great idea, if coupled with a guard-dog.

Coyotes can jump over fence up to 5 ft tall if they can get a running start; even higher if there are cross-pieces or wire. I don't think the fence in the video would stop coyotes from just climbing over it unless the shock level is set cruelly high.

You cannot set it up beneath overhanging trees, because raccoons will climb the tree and drop into the chicken's yard. Raccoons will also just wear the fence out by having several of them climb over at once, and the middle one doesn't get shocked. (Really!) They will also just test a piece of fence until it stretches, falls down, or wears out. Which is why you need a dog to keep them from concentrating on the fence itself. The dog won't catch any raccoons, but he'll keep them from concentrating on breaking in.

Badgers of course will dig under it. They will burrow all the way under a chicken coop and and come up through the floor, like "The Great Escape," only in reverse.

Snakes are a problem too. Especially where the gate is. Snakes in Texas will strangle chickens. Of course the chickens will sometimes peck the snake to death if they have a rooster with them.

And then there's hawks.

It seems like insurmountable problems keeping livestock safe. I like the guarddog(s) and feeding crows to chase off hawks/owls ideas. I might also think about digging a trench around the chicken house and installing chicken wire there, as well as affixing it under the floor boards.