Does Philosophy Have a Purpose?

reply to post by tachyonmind


I meant generally a kid, as in I didnt believe you are a professor or Philosophy, physics and chemistry as you claim. Physics should certainly have an affect on your world view, because physics is the view of the world. Philosophy is no where, with out the scientific and then philosophical grappling between our probing and understanding of reality in any and every manner we can. Physics (all science, all knowledge) is a branch of philosophy. Yes there were ancient greeks who logically deduced and posited the idea that the world may be composed of atoms, quite amazing that they would think that. However with science we give philosophy the crutch of true knowledge or at least truer.

Philosophy used to have it roots heavily into politics of old cultures such as Greece and Rome, and they had such philosophers like Aristotle. Back in those days, it seems like you would have to be upper class to use it, or at least a knowledgeable intelligence in their view. I wouldn't say it pushed ones critical thinking to better performance like schools love to so brag about(which they sucked at), but it help give one a better understanding. It would be like trying to understand incredibly complex, that it can only be put in few words.

However, philosophy as you know can clash with other philosophies, especially foreign. For example, the pose known as "The Thinker" does clash with Zen methodology. As Zen purpose is to be relaxing, flowing, as well as focus with out using to much energy. They believed the thinker pose restricts the flow of energy through out the body.

I'm glad that it has been taken out of politics, considering they would have sharper tongues and be more useless. And would just satisfy their egos further more by swaying council members. Now it seems to have gone under sciences utility belt, where I think it will do rather fine.

I find that philosophy has also impacted a sub-culture phenomenon, such as rap battles( I might get crucified for this). Making rhymes, or sentences that would destroy the opposition ego, reach into peoples minds and appease the council member(or crowds). Which is probably why they shot 2pac, but that another conspiracy in itself.

Now this is a metaphysics post.

Good post, S&F

reply to post by Specimen


There is a difference (imo) between a philosophy to live by (religion, the golden rule, laws) and Truth. Truth is truth is truth. The other things are purely human conventions to get through life in a desired manner. Those philosophies are tools. The philosophy of the nature of truth is true transience. It is the fact that we exist, and are by default related to everything that will and can ever exist. We have a system of intelligence, logic, reason, and reality it self is a system that operates on logical laws. There for we can know and understand reality, truth. I dont know if there is any real benefit in seeking to know the truth, but our general curiosity and Desiree to know and implement our knowledge, has been the main or only propellent of human progression and prosperity. I dont think questioning and pondering and seeking and searching for information, thoughts and theories regarding the highest truths, potentials, possibilities and nature or reality, nature of being, of consciousness, of intelligence, can be worthwhile, because from that gathering of mass information, from being aware of what we dont know, we are establishing a canvas and palate, from which we may construct the reality of our civilization. They say ignorance is bliss, they say knowledge is power. We could have been monkeys for ever and would have never known all that we would have missed out on. But now we are aware of what we are missing out on, and we can change that.

reply to post by ImaFungi


I'm just to much of a grunt and brawn to really care, although it did peak my interests after high school. And I am aware that philosophy has a wide range of areas where it can be applied.

I usually like comparing quote of scientists to ancient traditions. Permit me if you will a small demo.

Yin and Yang are based on forces that forever will push and pull.(me) Pretty vague statement if you ask me.

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." - Newton

Meh, it was a silly comparison anyways.

reply to post by swordwords


There is truth to what you say and it's a perfectly valid perspective, but it really depends on how you define 'philosophy.'

From The Free Dictionary:

philosophy [fɪˈlɒsəfɪ]
n pl -phies
1. Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
2. Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
3. A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.
4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
5. The disciplines presented in university curriculums of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.
6. The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
7. A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
8. A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.

Also, in considering its origin, there were schools of philosophy as far back as 770 to 221 BCE in China and no historian knows its true roots. You can make it into something specific if you wish, but philosophy has no one clear meaning, origin or purpose. What we can all agree with is that philosophy is thinking: questioning things. Without such thinking, existing practices such as science, mathematics and religion would never have come to be. By calling it a "love of Sophistry" you're implying that it's without merit or importance. Since it's given us many things (which we seem to take for granted,) it's clearly been of extreme value to this world we live in. We are lied to about many things, by politicians, scientist and the media alike, and it's both healthy and wise to always question everything.

To never question and to always 'do your part' as expected would make one nothing short of an imbecilic automaton. Not that your comment was necessarily aimed at independent thought, but that is what philosophy means for many people.

Truth will have no gods before it. The belief in truth begins with the doubt of all truths in which one has previously believed. Friedrich Nietzsche

The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.
Albert Einstein

When the solution is simple, God is answering.
Albert Einstein

reply to post by LoneCloudHopper2

Originally posted by LoneCloudHopper2
reply to post by swordwords

 

There is truth to what you say and it's a perfectly valid perspective, but it really depends on how you define 'philosophy.'

From The Free Dictionary:

philosophy [fɪˈlɒsəfɪ]
n pl -phies
1. Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
2. Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
3. A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.
4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
5. The disciplines presented in university curriculums of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.
6. The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
7. A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
8. A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.

Also, in considering its origin, there were schools of philosophy as far back as 770 to 221 BCE in China and no historian knows its true roots. You can make it into something specific if you wish, but philosophy has no one clear meaning, origin or purpose. What we can all agree with is that philosophy is thinking: questioning things. Without such thinking, existing practices such as science, mathematics and religion would never have come to be. By calling it a "love of Sophistry" you're implying that it's without merit or importance. Since it's given us many things (which we seem to take for granted,) it's clearly been of extreme value to this world we live in. We are lied to about many things, by politicians, scientist and the media alike, and it's both healthy and wise to always question everything.

To never question and to always 'do your part' as expected would make one nothing short of an imbecilic automaton. Not that your comment was necessarily aimed at independent thought, but that is what philosophy means for many people.

We all live in Plato's Cave and the term "philosophy" actually has a hidden meaning, and that is the one that I am employing. There are certainly some who have accepted philosophy on its literal level and as a result have made valid contributions to knowledge, in the same way that chemistry was born from Sophist alchemy. It is also possible that some early thinkers were sincere in their speculations, and if they were, I would prefer not to label them as philosophers. However, in regards to Greek Philosophy, I have little doubt about its true foundations. Thales of Miletus' claim that all things were made of "water" certainly did not hold up in the literal world. This claim was allegorical with "water" serving as a metaphor for "writings". In an effort to get allegoric claims such as this to at least appear rational, it was necessary to add the other elements, that served as metaphors for concepts related to allegoric writing, with "air" corresponding to the "above" and "earth" with the "below" and "fire" as the transformative agent. The "metals" of Alchemy actually served as metaphors for types of writings so the the "Philosopher's Stone" actually represents a sort of thesaurus of metaphors that could be employed to "change" history into mythology by the substitution of metaphors.

Hippocrates was really a hypocrate who was not really concerned with the "health" of actual people, and Plato himself appears as the "Stranger" in his Sophist dialogue, which means that Socrates was his "veil" in the Sophist tradition.

reply to post by swordwords


According to Wikipedia:The word "philosophy" comes from the Ancient Greek φιλοσοφία (philosophia), which literally means "love of wisdom". I think that, for many, 'philosophy' will always mean 'intelligent thinking.' I therefore cannot agree that a different word or term should be used.

I can also see philosophy being tied to elitism and held under the scrutiny of science both as an attempt to prevent most people from expressing intelligent thought without facing criticism and to subvert the very concept of independent thought.

We are living in a very cynical time when the Industrial Age is collapsing (as the resources upon which it has been based are limited compared to population growth and demand, governments borrow with interest and thus fall under the economic mercy of powerful banking families and because the corporate elite are using their money as sway to pervert Democracy (therefore perverting Capitalism into Corporate Communism.) Many people seem to be returning to more conservative ways of thinking; returning to their roots, traditions and pushing for more respect of the land. We as a race certainly need to start grounding ourselves at this time, and with so much corruption being exposed due to the Internet and in light of our collapsing democracies it makes sense that cynicism would follow. With this cynical view comes a mistrust of anything that 'doesn't fit.' Objective viewpoints will be favored over subjective ones and philosophical views will be criticized more easily than science or math, which can be proven on a page.

This makes it easier for the establishment to force philosophy under pragmatic criticism. I can see the mainstream media (the same media which labels anyone who disbelieves the absurd 'pancake theory' of 9/11 "conspiracy nuts") writing off independent thinkers for the simple fact that they are not 'philosophers.' I see the word 'philosophy' becoming an expertise; something which one will need a degree in in order to claim of one's self. No doubt such courses would be pro-establishment in their approach and any true, independent thinking would automatically be rejected as Sophistry. I see this happening both because it would suit the corporate powers' interests to force Pragmatism upon free thinkers (to subvert it) and because of the growth of cynicism in the world today. If one is not a 'philosopher' then one has no right to express thoughts which contradict the status quo. Only those ordained as 'philosophers' by the establishment have earned the right to question it, as they have been indoctrinated into it.

This would not be much different than what has happened to science. At one time, a scientist could freely explore psychic ability, telepathy, hauntings, demonic possession and other forms of paranormal activity. If one does so today he is labeled a "pseudo-scientist" and is ostracized from the scientific community. Geologists who uncover ancient truths which contradict what the establishment has upheld as fact often fall under such scrutiny. Bear in mind, I do not mean to suggest that science has not improved over the years in many ways, I am merely pointing out how it has taken on a very mainstream-restricted and rather fraternal mentality. Everyone jumped onboard the H1N1 (swine flu) 'approaching epidemic' theory, despite any scientific evidence that it may mutate into something larger. A lot of money was made on vaccines. The media created a campaign of fear and doctors and scientists followed suit, even though less people died from the swine flu than the average flu season virus and a stronger strain never generated. Likewise, in regards to all the scientific evidence against the 9/11 Commission Report and the ridiculous arguments that it makes (which are insulting even to a child's intelligence,) so few scientists have dared to speak against the status quo.

I can see the same fate befalling the intellectual crowd if they surrender their minds to the biased criticism of the indoctrinated scholar. Psychology has all ready fallen into this trap; attempting to meet the approval of the scientific community by increasing their prescribing of strong medications (which they are also paid to do) to treat the symptom, not the problem. In doing so, psychologists have betrayed the enlightened work of men like Freud and Jung, who were fascinated by the human mind and desired to resolve psychological problems, rather than suppress them.

In my view, it is essential that the word ‘philosophy’ not be inculcated as something which must be rationalized into a methodic practice. Once this has been accomplished, all free thinkers will be scrutinized by the mainstream media and by their peers because ‘philosophy’ (thinking itself) will have become institutionalized.

I've heard a wise man say this about philosophers.

'Philosophers are usually out of work men who, at least, have a reason as to why they're out of work.'

Philosophy is the Maya of the mind.


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reply to post by LoneCloudHopper2


My view of Greek Philosophy is derived from the study of Sophist allegory. I cannot alter my findings to suit your views or anyone else’s. I can only view those that take the title of “Philosopher” as either ignorant of its hidden meaning or as deliberate Sophist frauds. The Sophists have many covers designed to influence and control others. The more respected the cover, the greater the influence it exerts. If you defend the cover, you defend those that hide behind it. That is the great genius of Sophism. The defenders of Sophism really believe that they are defending something else.

But you really have nothing to worry about in regards to my view. The Sophists and their unwitting defenders will make sure that my ideas never take hold, no matter how much evidence I might offer.

From Plato’s Theaetetus:

Socrates: “In the name of the Graces, what an almighty wise man Protagoras must have been! He spoke these things in a parable to the common herd, like you and me, but told the truth, his Truth, in secret to his own disciples.”

What do consumers need with Philosophy? It is immaterial. It cannot be quantified, sold or bought and serves little purpose to the god of the bottom line...

in regards to the thread title question:
It could be that the philosophy of the nature of the universe is a way of putting into words a thought process of wondering what it is and how it came about. You write it down to give you something concrete to look at, the writing itself, and you can validate those thoughts, or you can see where they go and if you need to take another branch on the thought tree.

Mainly, the usefulness of making your own philosophy known to others is to help them to avoid dead-ends that may have taken you a lot of time to find that was just that.