If created perfect as scriptures say, why would we need salvation?

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by ctophil
[
Now, the truth to Salvation is to raise your consciousness to a high level. You must seek the Kingdom of Heaven within you, NOT an outside savior like Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, or Krishna. No one can save you but yourself. Kill the ego by putting on the Mind of God and let the Mind of Man die as well. To begin, get out of the Mental Box of an outside savior, look within, not without. The Mind of God sees perfection not based on human values but with divine vision or with no ego.

edit on 8/5/2013 by ctophil because: (no reason given)

As a Gnostic Christian, I have no problem with the notion of a God within.
After my apotheosis I cannot but believe in that concept.

You made a lot of statements about God and heaven and how things work here.

Are you admitting or claiming an apotheosis?

If not, how is it that you know what you say is truth above?

Regards
DL

I do a lot of teaching because my Father and I are One. All of my teachings come from my Christ Self and Divine Consciousness, which is my Higher Self. I don't claim ascension yet, but I AM that I AM.

reply to post by Greatest I am

Get the quote or you will also be seen as lying.

Genesis 3:4
"You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman.
(2011 NIV)
That was a lie according to the story because Adam and Eve both die, later on, in the story.
I didn't write the story, it's in the Bible and apparently has been in it for a long time before I was born.

reply to post by Greatest I am

If you sacrifice yourself to yourself, how is that a sacrifice?

Your examples show you giving up something of value for something of less value. A lose which is what sacrifice is.

What did Jesus/God give up that had value when he was just giving it to himself?

The sacrifice wasn't for God's gain, it was for our gain. God gave up a piece of himself in order that the rest of us would be able to spend eternity with him in a perfect place with incorruptible bodies rather than just returning to the dust of the earth.

reply to post by Greatest I am

His angels?

Were they not God's angels?

They were God's angels first until they decided to exercise their free will and follow Satan instead. Then they became Satan's angels. A third of God's angels will choose to follow Satan before it's all said and done. Does the name Lucifer ring a bell?

reply to post by ctophil

I do a lot of teaching because my Father and I are One. All of my teachings come from my Christ Self and Divine Consciousness, which is my Higher Self. I don't claim ascension yet, but I AM that I AM.

There is no true "ascension" while still living on earth, even if your mind has been tricked into thinking it does.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by ctophil

 

I do a lot of teaching because my Father and I are One. All of my teachings come from my Christ Self and Divine Consciousness, which is my Higher Self. I don't claim ascension yet, but I AM that I AM.

There is no true "ascension" while still living on earth, even if your mind has been tricked into thinking it does.

When do you think ascension will happen if not in life?
Jesus did say that life is eternal. It is eternal suffering until the ascension happens and then it is eternal bliss.

Maybe it is the mind that is the trickster.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

When do you think ascension will happen if not in life?

I said it wouldn't happen during our "earthly" life. Those who believe that they are visiting the real "heaven" with their minds and spirits while their human physical bodies are still here on earth are being fooled.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

When do you think ascension will happen if not in life?

I said it wouldn't happen during our "earthly" life. Those who believe that they are visiting the real "heaven" with their minds and spirits while their human physical bodies are still here on earth are being fooled.

And you are not fooled?
Who told you this and why do you believe it?

The talking serpent is present within the Garden of Eden and he says a lot of deceptive things.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Because everyone who does this has different experiences that lead to different definitions of who/what God is in the first place. Some who do it don't even believe in God as the Creator, but consider themselves to be God and creators themselves. (Not to mention the ones who claim that there is sex in the afterlife, when there is clearly no need for it.)

reply to post by Deetermined

There is no 'after' life.
This is life and it is the living Father.

The mind talks about 'before' and 'after' - it is very deceptive. It speaks and is heard always presently.
There is only presence but it is not seen because of the thoughts about next and before.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


So, based on your previous comment, "eternal" to you only means that human life will keep existing on earth for eternity even though no individual will. What's the point in that?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

So, based on your previous comment, "eternal" to you only means that human life will keep existing on earth for eternity even though no individual will. What's the point in that?

There is just the present happening - eternally.
It is being seen and heard (known) presently.
Presence is all - eternally.

The Father shines the light and sees the light.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

When do you think ascension will happen if not in life?

Paul talks about a rapture at some point in 1 Thessalonians. That is when the dead are raised on judgment day and the ones who had died in Christ are taken up to be with him.

Jesus did say that life is eternal.

I must have missed that. Maybe you are thinking of something other than the normal NT gospels.

It is eternal suffering until the ascension happens and then it is eternal bliss.

Something else I apparently missed.

Maybe it is the mind that is the trickster.

You should take a close look at who or what is giving you your information.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Paul talks about a rapture at some point in 1 Thessalonians. That is when the dead are raised on judgment day and the ones who had died in Christ are taken up to be with him

The dead are those who live in time.
The life is present.

Those who are always concerned with before and next believe they have a life.
Only when it is seen that there is only ever the present happening will there be 'just life'.
When the two become one the kingdom shall be revealed.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Sorry, I'm not in to mind games, tricks and illusions that lead to the kingdom of nowhere by running down the path of nothingness.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Sorry, I'm not in to mind games, tricks and illusions that lead to the kingdom of nowhere by running down the path of nothingness.

I know - you still believe in things. The mind is obsessed with things, ideas, concepts but it cannot see the non conceptual in which all concepts arise and in which all is seen.

The true sacrifice is 'your' life. There is no you separate from life but there 'seems' to be.
This is aliveness and it is happening - it is done.
When the true sacrifice happens then there is salvation - you have been saved from having to live life because it is realized that life is doing it all.
God is doing it all and God is life and this is the living Father - presently happening as this.

And this can appear as an idea that there is more than this and a whole illusionary world is born and then the dead live in that world. Only the dead can live in a dead world that does not exist in the light.
The dead will be life only when they see the true light of God which is present all around and not the projections of mind which are past and future and somewhere else..

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by ctophil

 

I do a lot of teaching because my Father and I are One. All of my teachings come from my Christ Self and Divine Consciousness, which is my Higher Self. I don't claim ascension yet, but I AM that I AM.

There is no true "ascension" while still living on earth, even if your mind has been tricked into thinking it does.

You are correct in your assessment. If you still have a physical body and still living on the physical Earth, you have NOT ascended. There are many people who do claim that they have ascended and still living on the Physical Plane. This is only spiritual pride. Your mind may be pretty clear of psychological issues, since you do have to clear the "toxins" of the Earthly mind before even contemplating ascension; but believing that you have ascended while still in the very dense body is just a voice from your Ego. Therefore, you are still using the Mind of Man, not the Mind of God.

However, the process leading up to Ascension is personal and spiritual growth, which means raising your consciousness on a daily basis. You can't be in the Spiritual Realm until your mind is completely raised to that level by clearing ALL of your Ego. There is Ascension to the higher planes (different from the Spiritual Realm or Heaven) as well. But I'm not going to get into that within this thread. It is best suited for another time.

reply to post by ctophil


And you know this because you know more than everyone else?

Originally posted by ctophil

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by ctophil
[
Now, the truth to Salvation is to raise your consciousness to a high level. You must seek the Kingdom of Heaven within you, NOT an outside savior like Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, or Krishna. No one can save you but yourself. Kill the ego by putting on the Mind of God and let the Mind of Man die as well. To begin, get out of the Mental Box of an outside savior, look within, not without. The Mind of God sees perfection not based on human values but with divine vision or with no ego.

edit on 8/5/2013 by ctophil because: (no reason given)

As a Gnostic Christian, I have no problem with the notion of a God within.
After my apotheosis I cannot but believe in that concept.

You made a lot of statements about God and heaven and how things work here.

Are you admitting or claiming an apotheosis?

If not, how is it that you know what you say is truth above?

Regards
DL

I do a lot of teaching because my Father and I are One. All of my teachings come from my Christ Self and Divine Consciousness, which is my Higher Self. I don't claim ascension yet, but I AM that I AM.

You have just taken the usual esoteric stories and put you own slant on things.

Proof of your delusion is placing those that you have named in heaven.

Spirit guides, if I can use that term, guide. They do not name names.

Those who know of spiritual matters know that there is no such thing as a divine consciousness.

You are calling yourself divine. How sad for you.

Regards
DL