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If created perfect as scriptures say, why would we need salvation?

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posted on Aug, 12 2013 @ 05:48 PM
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The fundamental "problem" as far as I can tell is that the human being resides in the rather precarious position of standing right next to the very Godhead and that, therefore we are in need of intercessory Grace from the one who is appropriately positioned to offer it, but that kind of "submission" doesn't sit too well with the willful pride of man.

Therefore, imho, it's very very humorous, but woe to he/she who lacks the capacity to recognize that the joke's on them, because that is how their heart gets hardened and their will to power, re-asserted. Future devils are made in this way, but to hell with them for being so stupid and foolish, and so ignorantly arrogant in their presumptions about the true nature of God and of man's intended relationship with God, walking hand in hand in spirit and in truth.




posted on Aug, 12 2013 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by veteranhumanbeing
Does your present allow for modification/the intrusion of all other things beyond your control, (sneaky thoughtforms I call them) because I am bombarded with the past future likelihoods and would like to anihliate all extra random thought activity.



Itsnowagain
Thought forms now (the forming of everything is now) and is seen now - they arise with no control - no one is doing them. They speak of that which they know nothing about (future).
If you want to annihilate the thoughts that arise then that is the suffering. Resisting life, running away from what is, is the denial of the light of consciousness. Thought arising is just words (God is the word) that tell a story about 'other' - 'other' than now (past, future and somewhere else) - thought happens always presently and that is fine but the trouble starts when the story is believed. The story is always told in truth (presence) but speaks of another - when really there is no other. It is just about realizing that you are not stretched over time - that in fact you are always present with stories appearing. The stories (thoughts of other times) happen but are seen to be amusement. It is only when one is lost in the story of me in time that there can be suffering.
What is wrong with right now.......................unless you think about something that is not really here now? Even if thinking happens now - can any thought harm what you are? Thought cannot arise without the present being. I would just like to say - thought is not the enemy - it can deliver amazing insights but it can also be very deceptive - it can lead one astray. Who are the thoughts speaking about when they talk about you?


I do want to annihilate what I persieve as past, (intrusive thoughtforms) but could merely be wishes for fishes. I have a hard time embracing life only because I tend to the fixing of negatives; (my job? made very difficult because the negatives must exist for any change whether poss/neg any result is a good one that necesitates CHANGE because there is a result (AGAIN TO FIX). I dont believe in stories, I undertand they are the history of 'US' supposedly and will always be corrupted and used in not so good a manner. I suppose that is why Jesus neglected writing anything down nor did his disciples, (was this to be an oral tradition?). I believe any negative thoughtform brought within your mind/body can do great harm, cause disease/mental malcontent is a killer of the soul or at least a contender in doing so (break the heart and spirit/mind and the body follows). We are alive and thinking breathing humans, thought is very powerful but for most they are not being told the truth about their existence. Any thoughts spoken about me (as YOU) are my own I suspect, just from a higher realm higher self that is trying to teach me the rules of my progression as a soul.


Itsnowagain
The whole point is that there is no 'me in time'. There is only now and I am never separate from it and nor are you - you just think you are.The illusion that you are separate and divided from all that is comes from the belief in the thoughts/concept of 'before' and after'.This is the beginning and end right here and right now eternally


As there is no me either, just me existing IN ALL TIME AT ONCE. This iis a difficult concept but I understand it. The before and after was never taught in middle school, Latin yes EVERYTHING else of importance NO (have to figure that for oneself). Eternal being the place in the middle of the end and beginning no one thought to look.ETERNAL PRESENCE in the NOW FOREVER (no time exists outside/beyond the linear thinking 3D Watchmakers alive on this planet) got to give someone a nod here, capitalism at its best, INVENT TIME and sell the need to follow/document it hours by minute obsessive time wasting.
edit on 12-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2013 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
The fundamental "problem" as far as I can tell is that the human being resides in the rather precarious position of standing right next to the very Godhead and that, therefore we are in need of intercessory Grace from the one who is appropriately positioned to offer it, but that kind of "submission" doesn't sit too well with the willful pride of man.

Therefore, imho, it's very very humorous, but woe to he/she who lacks the capacity to recognize that the joke's on them, because that is how their heart gets hardened and their will to power, re-asserted. Future devils are made in this way, but to hell with them for being so stupid and foolish, and so ignorantly arrogant in their presumptions about the true nature of God and of man's intended relationship with God, walking hand in hand in spirit and in truth.


We do stand in front of some kind of tipping point, I actually have been drawn a picture of the Godhead being pierced. Its a wave being pushed into what looks like a bubble balloon. On top of the waveform is an alligator, on the bottom is mountain shapes, (earth) trying to push a 3.3 dimension into a 5.0. (PAY NO ATTENTION TO THIS) it is just a drawing shown. What I was shown is that the human body has no chance (never did as materal) the grace is in the deliverance of the soul back to its creator; and this goes with the 'willfullness of man' as being a noncontender very neatly. The joke is upon those souls that refuse to advance and must continually come back reincarnated (the wheel) that stopped turning so long ago; I suppose it used to work but no maintainance (lubricant) reason was given. Buddha tried but buddha is not here and his message left a billion people to be acquiescent as to their horrible living conditions as one of a 'caste' and the future will be better if they suffer this one (that is messed up). WHAT HAPPENED TO NOW, and instant goodwill, happyness? Future devils? now that is what I think could be the bottom of the barrel souls trying to get away dishonestly climbing the ladder and skipping necessary rungs. The problem with most people (and is valid) is THEY HAVE NOT THE CAPACITY TO HAVE FAITH IN THEMSELVES, much less a God Being because they havent as the children of god been given TRUE HOPE of the everlastingness of the Soul. No one has communicated this perfectly, not even Jesus as he spoke too much in Parables that were/are more for teaching illiterates a more expansive version of the Ten Commandments, sort of footnoted them and added scores of amendments. He was too obtuse regarding the true state of life after death. Perhaps his death was to be the beacon call, but I think it was a mismanaged affair that has lead to much confusion now.
edit on 12-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2013 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by ctophil

Originally posted by veteranhumanbeing
reply to post by ctophil
 


I am in concurrance with all you have said, understand your viewpoint as it is mine as well, and beautifully set forth in your observations and conclusions. I have nothing to add but thanks for sharing this with others and Greatest I Am providing a forum for the ideaforms. Its all good dialoge, inspiring and genuine.


edit on 11-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


It is our pleasure to serve others. For when we serve others, we also serve ourselves. The greatest among us is the least, and the least among us is the greatest. The greatest servant among us is the Creator Himself. With this knowledge, you no need to thank me, for when I serve you, I am serving myself. The Universe is a mirror that reflects back what you do. As I continue to teach and speak, I AM greeting you all as God meets God. Namaste.


I do understand we/IAM (in humanform) are the mirror for all above and below, we are living on a playground called EARTH and exist to learn about OURSELF/ ITSELF whether that is transgressions, failures, triumphs, joyous laughter or alocades, its all on the human being to be exact God at its fullest realization (what could be better) most mysterious complicated and misunderstood as to its role: human confusion (THATS THE POINT). You do not serve me at all as you ARE ME and are a willing participant on a fools errand we share ultimately. Love, ORIGIN.
edit on 12-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2013 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Greatest I am
 



If You live 900 odd years after an act, can you say that that act killed you?


Yes. If Adam and Eve had not eaten from the Tree of Knowledge, they would have been given access to the Tree of Life for eternity so that they would never have died. After they sinned, they were banned from eating from the Tree of Life ever again.



Yes.
The dogma clearly shows God murdering A & E by neglect and by physically keeping them from what would keep them alive. The tree of Life.

We jail people today for such acts of murder.

And you love your genocidal son murderer that much more for that immorality.

Satan is pleased.

Regards
DL



posted on Aug, 14 2013 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


God has his reasons for why he does what he does. That doesn't mean we have to understand every single one of them. God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts and his ways are higher than our ways.

For some reason, the blood that keeps human flesh alive had to be cleansed from our corrupted bodies in order to make way for our incorruptible bodies that are coming.
.


God makes all things perfect. That is scripture. So where do you get the notion that we need other bodies?

Never mind. You have no faith in your God's omnipotence.

As to God's higher ways.

God's morals are way lower than man's unless you call evil good and murdering your children a good thing.

Regards
DL



posted on Aug, 14 2013 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Greatest I am
 

So God demanded his son's death to give man something that he could have given without a barbaric blood sacrifice.
The "barbaric" act was on the part of the forces of evil.
In the movie, The Passion of Christ, you see this "evil" personified as this creepy looking man with a hooded cloak, wondering around the perimeters of the action, watching, with the idea that he was influencing events by giving telepathic suggestions to the various participants.
People are supposed to understand this in a particular way, which is that Evil thought that he was going to win by killing Jesus and utterly humiliating him.
What really happened was that Evil was shown to be just that, through the actions that he thought he could put the blame for on other people, all the way from Judas, up to Ceasar.
This is something that could not have been brought out in any clearer way than the way that it was in the crucifixion of Christ.
The other thing that goes with that judgment on Evil that the events do, is to make a judgment on ourselves through the person of Jesus, that he took upon himself all our weaknesses and signs of failure, and was vindicated despite that, which opens the way to our own vindication at the ends of our lives despite our past weaknesses and failings.


I saw it more as the vindication of Judas. You might want to watch that film again.

If there is anyone to blame for Jesus death it goes to the S O B who demanded it. His own insane father.

Regards
DL



posted on Aug, 14 2013 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


Christ also said: "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." (John 11:25-26)
.


The wages of sin is death and Jesus died for his sins.

He did not believe in himself and died.

No one has ever believed in Jesus as all have died.

These three statements are true if your is.

Regards
DL



posted on Aug, 14 2013 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by piequal3because14
reply to post by Greatest I am
 



If created perfect as scriptures say, why would we need salvation?
Because children are perfect in their beauty,as we are like children for Creation.



Exactly. Only a loser of a God would condemn his perfect creations.

Regards
DL



posted on Aug, 14 2013 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Greatest I am
 



why would we need salvation?

For some it would be ego, pride, and the desire to judge God himself, along with a steadfast refusal to repent for sins, even the sin of arrogance, and the sins of omission (that we are not even aware of).

given)


Are you saying that you can judge God as good but we cannot judge him that way ourselves?

Regards
DL



posted on Aug, 14 2013 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 

I saw it more as the vindication of Judas. You might want to watch that film again.
There is a book that the movie was based on, which maybe I should start looking for, which explains it better, but I am pretty sure I an right from articles that I have read on it.

If there is anyone to blame for Jesus death it goes to the S O B who demanded it. His own insane father.
I just don't buy into that concept.
I did at one time, but I can't find anything to substantiate it.



posted on Aug, 15 2013 @ 09:29 AM
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Not too surprising.

It is an immoral concept that Christians have sold their souls to Satan for to embrace.
Satan loves such Christian thinking. Or lack of thinking.

Regards
DL



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