An Orthopedic Surgeon Explains Her Faith In Creation

Originally posted by Vasa Croe

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by Vasa Croe

 

You said:

Why would I need scientific instruments or terminologies when I can look at the stars and see the same ones come around each night, every night? That alone would tell me, as a critical thinker, that we are "hanging on nothing".....it would have nothing to do with a god telling me this or giving me some divine inspiration on it.....quite simple logic and reasoning for an observer of the world.

Sure! It's easy for you to say "quite simple logic and reasoning for an observer of the world".

Yet the intellectuals of the ancient times got it wrong!!!

Like the Egyptians who believed that the earth was supported by pillars; the Greeks said by Atlas; others said by an elephant standing on a turtle that swam in a cosmic sea.

It's ONLY in the 19th-20th century that it was proven beyond reasonable doubt that INDEED "the earth is hanging upon nothing" in space.

So you agree then that the Bible is accurate when it said (in poetic expression) the earth is "hanging upon nothing".

Just like what it said in Gen 1:1 of the universe having a beginning is accurate.

As for the Epic of Gilgamesh - funny that you mentioned it, it's a myth and exaggerated stories based on the Great Flood.

The history of Noah and the Great Flood on the other hand is accurate in that it mentions the date, the time, architectural specs and construction of floating vessel - the ark as well as geographical anomalies that we see today.

In any case - I need to split but I'll go into more detail when I come back later. Not much time left to type in the info.

ciao

edit on 9-8-2013 by edmc^2 because: Last min edit: epic myth and exaggeration based on the Great Flood event.

When you come back to explain, please also include the explanation of Job 9:6 and Job 38:4 which contradict the one you referenced of the Earth hanging on nothing yet are written by the same person.

OK - but before I start, let me please be clear on this:

Based on your last reply, am I correct to say that you agree that the Bible is accurate when it says:

1) The earth (in poetic terms) IS "hanging upon nothing"?

And that:

2) The Universe had a "beginning"?

A simple yes will suffice.

But if you say I'm wrong, then it will be obvious to me that you already closed you mind to incontrovertible facts as stated above.

And anything I'll say won't matter.

"But if you say I'm wrong, then it will be obvious to me that you already closed you mind to incontrovertible facts as stated above. "

Someone that disagrees with you is ill?

Maybe you're ill, as in bat # crazy ill...?

Dear me... an appeal to authority must be right... coming from a bat # crazy religions nut... I think not.


Mental health problems manifest themselves in many different ways. This post proves it.

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Just like the one I mentioned, which you have not responded to, with the Epic of Gilgamesh. Please explain how a story written YEARS before Jesus, God or the bible happens to have the EXACT story of the flood that the bible has in it and claims was god's work? Epic of Gilgamesh has NOTHING to do with the bible yet the bible completely and entirely plagiarizes the entire story and attributes it to god's work.

So....whomever wrote the story of the flood in the bible was either a liar or just another story teller. What I am talking about is:

First of all, a world wide flood happened.

When it was written about by what author is the debate. The factual event of a flood as experienced by the survivors in my humble opinion, would have better things (find food, build shelter, keep animals together, find water) to do than immediately write it down. It was probably passed on as a verbal story for years before it was written.

Originally posted by MarsIsRed
"But if you say I'm wrong, then it will be obvious to me that you already closed you mind to incontrovertible facts as stated above. "

Someone that disagrees with you is ill?

Maybe you're ill, as in bat # crazy ill...?

Dear me... an appeal to authority must be right... coming from a bat # crazy religions nut... I think not.


Mental health problems manifest themselves in many different ways. This post proves it.

So Mars, if I tell you with convincing evidence that the universe had a beginning but you say - nope, uh ah, no no no, who is nuts here?

I think you should check in for a checkup.

Edit:

So let have a reality check:

I'll make the letters big so as not to make you missed the question.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE UNIVERSE HAD A BEGINNING?

What say you?

If yes then do you agree that the Scripture is accurate when it said the Universe had a beginning and that the earth is "hanging upon nothing"?

Come on Mars - this is not rocket science.

What say you?

reply to post by edmc^2


Please explain something I'm confused about. Science is wrong but you're using science to back up your story book. How do you reconcile that lack of reality and incorporate it into your world view?

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by flyingfish

 

First off... evolution is not a belief system

Oh yes it is!

Here... do you BELIEVE that man evolved from a lower form of organism millions of years ago?

What part of my post did you not understand? My understanding of evolution has nothing to do with my beliefs.
Beliefs, do not form objective reality. That's what "objective reality" means.
It is that which exists whether we believe in it or not.

Throughout this thread and other topics, you engage in this prehistoric dance where you use pseudophilosophical wise-sounding nonsense in order to make your beliefs fit, despite your acknowledgement of arguments that clearly show that your own position is weak and dishonest at best.

Your capacity for cognitive dissonance knows few peers.

Originally posted by peter vlar
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Please explain something I'm confused about. Science is wrong but you're using science to back up your story book. How do you reconcile that lack of reality and incorporate it into your world view?

peter vlar let me please unconfused you. I didn't say Science is wrong. Nothing in what I posted said that Science is wrong. In fact like you said I use "science to back up your story book".

It's based on reality backed up by logic and common sense.

For example - does God exist?

My answer to that question is of course.

Based on what?

Reality backed up by logic and common sense.

Consider this passage:

“For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable. . .” (Romans 1:20)

Through science we can take a look at creation and actually the see design behind it.
That they fallow strict mathematical laws and parameters. Far be it to a product of blind chance.

E=mc2 > That energy can be transformed into matter and matter into energy. But where did Energy - the Dynamic Energy - came from?

The answer is here:

“Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? . . . Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one of them is missing.”—Isa. 40:26.

I can go on and on but I think you see my point. I use science as a tool to understand creation.

And the Scriptures to peer into the unseen.

Originally posted by flyingfish

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by flyingfish

 

First off... evolution is not a belief system

Oh yes it is!

Here... do you BELIEVE that man evolved from a lower form of organism millions of years ago?

What part of my post did you not understand? My understanding of evolution has nothing to do with my beliefs.
Beliefs, do not form objective reality. That's what "objective reality" means.
It is that which exists whether we believe in it or not.

Throughout this thread and other topics, you engage in this prehistoric dance where you use pseudophilosophical wise-sounding nonsense in order to make your beliefs fit, despite your acknowledgement of arguments that clearly show that your own position is weak and dishonest at best.

Your capacity for cognitive dissonance knows few peers.

It was a simple question. Nothing more nothing less. What's pseudophilosophical wise-sounding nonsense are you talking about?

I merely asked:

Do you BELIEVE that man evolved from a lower form of organism millions of years ago?

Do you BELIEVE that man evolved from a lower form of organism millions of years ago?

No...
Humans evolved from archaic Homo sapiens from the Middle Paleolithic, not from some lower form of organism millions of years ago.

Originally posted by flyingfish

Do you BELIEVE that man evolved from a lower form of organism millions of years ago?

No...
Humans evolved from archaic Homo sapiens from the Middle Paleolithic, not from some lower form of organism millions of years ago.

Still didn't get it did you?

OK let's use a vid. evolution 101:

Based on the 5 min video below, do you BELIEVE that man evolved from a lower form of organism millions of years ago?



Here's a classic from Dr. Sagan:



If yes, what's your system for BELIEVING that man evolved from a lower form of organism millions of years ago?


p.s.

If you still need me to clarify the question further I'll post some cute and pretty pictures.

reply to post by edmc^2


I answered your question here.

Cut the chase what's your point? If you want to know what evolved from a lower form of organism millions of years ago, you must be more specific on what this lower form of organism is. Does it have a name?

Originally posted by flyingfish
reply to post by edmc^2

 

I answered your question here.

Cut the chase what's your point?

Not sure why you can't answer a very simple question about your own BELIEF SYSTEM. If you BELIEVE, think and are convinced that humans evolved as shown in the evolution 101 vid that I provided, why hide it?

Why not just say YES! after all proponents of evolution BELIEVE, think and are convinced that humans evolved from lower forms of organism millions of years ago.

If you're not sure about it, check with Prof. PZ Myers or Dr. Jack W. Szostak and they will explain it to you.

Seems like I know more about evolution theory than you. Interesting.

Point is - evolution theory is a belief system.

reply to post by edmc^2


Your wrong again, I already explained to you HERE evolution is not a belief system.

You seem to have trouble understanding what a belief system is.
I will try again, here is the definition.
Belief System

A belief system is a set of mutually supportive beliefs. The beliefs of any such system can be classified as religious, philosophical, ideological or a combination of these.

Your point is dismissed.

Originally posted by flyingfish
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Your wrong again, I already explained to you HERE evolution is not a belief system.

You seem to have trouble understanding what a belief system is.
I will try again, here is the definition.
Belief System

A belief system is a set of mutually supportive beliefs. The beliefs of any such system can be classified as religious, philosophical, ideological or a combination of these.

OK whatever suites you.

If you don't believe your own evolution theory - so be it.




Your point is dismissed.

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by flyingfish
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Your wrong again, I already explained to you HERE evolution is not a belief system.

You seem to have trouble understanding what a belief system is.
I will try again, here is the definition.
Belief System

A belief system is a set of mutually supportive beliefs. The beliefs of any such system can be classified as religious, philosophical, ideological or a combination of these.

OK whatever suites you.

If you don't believe your own evolution theory - so be it.




Your point is dismissed.

edit on 9-8-2013 by edmc^2 because: (no reason given)

Your funny... I don't know if your serious or if your trying to be comical.

I already told you "evolution is NOT something you believe in, it's something you understand". Comprende? : You Understand?
And it's not my own theory to believe in..It's like asking me if I "believe" in my gravity theory

reply to post by flyingfish

Your funny... I don't know if your serious or if your trying to be comical. I already told you "evolution is NOT something you believe in, it's something you understand". Comprende? : You Understand? And it's not my own theory to believe in..It's like asking me if I "believe" in my gravity theory

OK - let's explore this further.

"evolution is NOT something you believe in, it's something you understand"

Hmmm...

"evolution is NOT something you believe in, it's something you understand".

So if you understand evolution then you either believe it or NOT. Correct?

Thus understanding and believing come hand in hand.

One MUST understand something before BELIEVING otherwise what's the value of understanding? In your case NONE because you only understand that which you don't believe in.

What a conundrum.

You understand evolution but not believing in it because believing in it is NOT understanding.

Comprende?

Hmmm... interesting concept but highly ilogic - lacking common sense.

OK - let's explore this further.

Let's not.

I know your trying to confuse the word "belief" as applied to evolution in science with faith, in a lame attempt to misconstrue terminology to have the same denigrating effect on evolution as the much-misunderstood word "theory".

Nice try... but your semantics are boring and predictable.

double post

see below

Originally posted by flyingfish

OK - let's explore this further.

Let's not.

I know your trying to confuse the word "belief" as applied to evolution in science with faith, in a lame attempt to misconstrue terminology to have the same denigrating effect on evolution as the much-misunderstood word "theory".

Nice try... but your semantics are boring and predictable.

I understand your conundrum flyingfish - you just can't believe evolution because if you do, it means you don't understand it. Thus one must NOT BELIEVE in it in order to understand it otherwise it won't make sense.

I get it. How could anyone believe in a fantasy? That's crazy!

I mean who can believe a fantasy except someone who understand it? But once you understand it you should not believe in it - otherwise you don't understand it.

Know what I mean?

Like you said "evolution is NOT something you believe in, it's something you understand".

In other words, one has to understand it in order NOT to BELIEVE in it.

So when evolutionists say that in the beginning, earth had an atmosphere composed of methane, ammonia, carbon dioxide, and water, it wasn't meant to be BELIEVED in but to understand.

When evolutionists say that in the beginning through energy supplied by sunlight, and by lightning and exploding volcanoes these simple compounds were broken apart and then they re-formed into amino acids, it wasn't meant to be BELIEVED in but to understand.

When evolutionists say that in the beginning a variety of these gradually accumulated in the sea and combined into protein like compounds it wasn't meant to be BELIEVED in but to understand.

When evolutionists say that in the beginning the ocean ultimately became an “organic soup,” but still lifeless it wasn't meant to be BELIEVED in but to understand.

When evolutionists say that when in the beginning by chance a particularly remarkable molecule was formed and started to reproduced itself, it wasn't meant to be BELIEVED in but to understand.

Thus when evolutionists say that when humans evolved from a lower form of a species and eventually became what we are today it wasn't meant to be BELIEVED in but to understand.

So "evolution is NOT something you believe in, it's something you understand".


Thanks flying fish now I understand it, it's pure fantasy thus "evolution is NOT something you believe in, it's something you understand".

got it!!! clear as mud.

Originally posted by flyingfish

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by flyingfish
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Your wrong again, I already explained to you HERE evolution is not a belief system.

You seem to have trouble understanding what a belief system is.
I will try again, here is the definition.
Belief System

A belief system is a set of mutually supportive beliefs. The beliefs of any such system can be classified as religious, philosophical, ideological or a combination of these.

OK whatever suites you.

If you don't believe your own evolution theory - so be it.




Your point is dismissed.

edit on 9-8-2013 by edmc^2 because: (no reason given)

Your funny... I don't know if your serious or if your trying to be comical.

I already told you "evolution is NOT something you believe in, it's something you understand". Comprende? : You Understand?
And it's not my own theory to believe in..It's like asking me if I "believe" in my gravity theory

OK - not sure if you've seen this video already but many of your fellow evolutionist see evolution as a form of belief.

And BTW I have no affiliation with Ray Comfort nor promoting him or his version of Christianity but just to show you what your fellow evolutionist believe what evolution is really about.

Fascinating interview and facts.




ciao

note: might need to stop the vid around the 25 min mark if you don't want to listen to Ray preach. Just look at the first part of the interview that's all i'm saying.