Debunking Original Sin

It would be remiss not to include this video in this thread!

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Prezbo369

 

You're saying that if original sin didn't exist, then there's nowhere for the rest of sin to come from. I'm saying that the rest of sin was always there, it just wasn't classified as sin because it was natural behavior. Cro Magnon, Neanderthals, cave men, etc. They stole, they adulterated, they murdered, they coveted...because it was all a part of survival. The only difference is now that we think we're better. We're arrogant.

No, i'm really not saying that

We're talking about Christian beliefs in general here, and how evolution can come into direct conflict with them

Originally posted by windword
Even those who abide by the literal and fundamental story of the Garden of Eden, and Adam and Eve's sin of disobeying God, have to admit that there were other humans in existence, outside of the Garden of Eden, that didn't participate in the crime of "eating the apple" and weren't descendants of Adam and Eve. Therefore "original sin" would only exist and would apply only to those descendants of Adam and Eve, and not the whole world.

So how can people, who accept evolution, and / or Polygenism , still justify their belief in original sin?

'Original Sin' is the condition of being divided from God. Man is divided by the imagination that there is other than there is. In this ever present image of God - the Garden of Eden - a whisper is heard, it says 'you can become.........', 'become' implies time.
God is just having a joke with himself.
Nothing can leave the Garden of Eden because it is ever present but the thoughts and beliefs of a world that is separate to you has got you scared so you don't feel like you are in paradise.
Seeking for paradise it what happens.
Paradise is here now but thoughts are concerned with next and before and other.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

'Original Sin' is the condition of being divided from God.

I.e. when Lucifer was cast down...

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

'Original Sin' is the condition of being divided from God.

I.e. when Lucifer was cast down...

There is just God and god imagines there is other. The one he imagines is what is cast out of presence - just like a shadow is cast on a wall. Nothing more than projection. Gods seems to split himself over 'time' but he projects it all presently.
It is this split, this division that is the conflict - how can one know paradise when conflicted?
Only when presence is found to be all there is will paradise return.

reply to post by Prezbo369


All I can really say for certain is that the amount of conflict between the numerous factions and their varying degrees of acceptance regarding what coincides between scripture and science clearly emphasizes the fact that their truth is not nearly as absolute and clear-cut as they claim it to be. More to the point, they don't understand their truth very well...and cannot therefore honestly call it truth. It's convenient, that's all it is. They would rather have someone give them truth on a silver platter than find it themselves.

There is, of course, the fairly logical response: "It is better to believe and find out you were wrong, than to disbelieve and find out they were right."

Certainly, I can see how that would make sense to some. But here's how I look at it - if I live a good and kind and honorable life because it's the right thing to do...then I don't have anything to worry about either way. Because if I am then judged purely because I don't recognize a god, rather than because of the life I have lived, then I would reject the religion anyway.

SO! Having said that, none of this thread really makes any difference to me.

There is nothing wrong about 'original sin'. Without God deceiving himself there would be no world. There would be no angels, no demons, no good, no bad, no right and no wrong. When God deceives himself duality can 'seem' to exist.

reply to post by windword


The wonderful thing about that video is that no matter what you or me says, that child is going to live her own life and come to her own conclusions based on her own experiences.

The sad thing is that if those experiences lead that child to believe in God, there will always be someone just like you ready to ridicule her for being so foolish.

Tell me, why do you try so hard to make people abandon their beliefs? What's in it for you if it turns out that you're correct? Bragging rights?

reply to post by Bone75

The sad thing is that if those experiences lead that child to believe in God, there will always be someone just like you ready to ridicule her for being so foolish.

Tell me, why do you try so hard to make people abandon their beliefs? What's in it for you if it turns out that you're correct? Bragging rights?

I would like a crack at that question. Here's what I'm afraid of:

Faith is knowledge. Fear is love. Oppression is security. These principles are why I personally am an atheist, and I disapprove of such principles being lauded and encouraged in intellectual society. While they may provide the anesthetic function that so many seem to crave, these doctrines do little to foster an emotionally and intellectually productive system by which to mold future generations into the visionary, comprehensive, compassionate leaders we want them to be.

Perfection is to be coveted. Imperfection is a curse. Might is right. Do not question authority. It's okay to be ignorant, it makes you better follower. You only exist to serve those in power. Independence breeds corruption.

I fear that these will be the edicts those children grow to uphold and spread. Why? Because it's easier and more peaceful than revolution. It's a more comfortable path than justice and growth. Why fight the beast when you can grow fat on its tyranny? Why live a life of pain and suffering when you can live on table scraps and take from those who are too weak to contribute to the future? That's what they say. There is no future in weakness.

It's a very masculine, very mechanical perspective.

Tell me, why do you try so hard to make people abandon their beliefs?

Because I fear what will happen if we continue to incorporate such mechanical principles and virtues to the point that there is less organic and more mechanical. We no longer create our own meanings, we are born and bred purely for a predetermined destiny - to live and die in the service of a god. Because we are given meaning, we stop thinking and feeling independently. We will be automatons, interacting according to strict protocol that is designed with the intention of milking every last drop of service from the pawns. There's no reason to continue, right? After all, our opinion is irrelevant. If we must think or feel something, either our protocols will demand such or this god will do it for us. If it is needed, he will provide, yes?

In short, we might abandon our humanity in favor of becoming androids of the soul. Robotic soldiers that exist only to serve the whim of their commander.


1. A human may not displease the Lord or, through inaction, allow the Lord to be displeased.
2. A human must obey the orders given to it by the Lord, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A human must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

In case you didn't recognize those three rules up there, they are an edited version of Isaac Asimov's three laws of robotics. In my mind, they directly mirror the theme set in place by the Judaic god.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Being separate from God is fearful. In your post you say that you fear.
Mending the world will not stop the fear. Only God realization will do the trick.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Being separate from God is fearful.

Much less so if you have confidence in yourself.

In your post you say that you fear.

Only the fool does not experience fear.

Mending the world will not stop the fear.

Says who?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

Mending the world will not stop the fear.

Says who?

The fear is in you not the world.
If you are projecting the fear onto the world and trying to cure it 'out there' then you have deceived yourself.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

In your post you say that you fear.

Only the fool does not experience fear.

You fear what 'will' happen - that is dread and anxiety not fear in the moment.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

The fear is in you not the world. If you are projecting the fear onto the world and trying to cure it 'out there' then you have deceived yourself.

Everyone is afraid. The choice is whether to succumb to the fear - or confront it.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

The fear is in you not the world. If you are projecting the fear onto the world and trying to cure it 'out there' then you have deceived yourself.

Everyone is afraid. The choice is whether to succumb to the fear - or confront it.

You are afraid and you then say everyone is afraid (more projection). I was afraid before I realized God.
Only when one is divided does one fear what 'will' happen.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

The fear is in you not the world. If you are projecting the fear onto the world and trying to cure it 'out there' then you have deceived yourself.

Everyone is afraid. The choice is whether to succumb to the fear - or confront it.

What are you afraid of?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


This isn't about me. I am not the topic.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

This isn't about me. I am not the topic.

Oh it is.
You are all that is but you think there is something else that is confused.
Know thyself.

Original sin is about believing there is anything separate from God. There is nothing separate.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Animals feel fear. Or are you not talking about the Judaic god?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Animals feel fear. Or are you not talking about the Judaic god?

God is all there is.

God is either knowing that he is knowing himself or he believes in other and has forgotten himself. Lost or found?