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Christopher Hitchens Vs Religion

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posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 12:34 PM
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I have just watched this video and it raises some questions.



Religion is wanted by people who do not mind being a slave.
God condemns you for thought crime.
Religion can make good men do evil things.
I love this guy and iam so sad he has gone (RIP).
I agree in his view mockery of religion is needed to demystify religion and show it is not the work of God but the work of man.
Oh and the numbers at the end
they got Hitchslapped.
Watch the video please and comment.
edit on 5-8-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 12:48 PM
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There are many videos of him on youtube, sometimes he 'wins' the debate, sometimes he 'loses'. This doesn't really prove anything other than he is a good debater.

He does raise some thought provoking ideas but then, so do the people he debates.

Mocking somebodys beliefs isn't really an ideal way of getting them to change their opinion. Doesn't work with me anyway. If anything it strengthens them.
edit on 5-8-2013 by greavsie1971 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by boymonkey74
 


Hitchens has always been a huge inspiration to me.

It was his debates and intellectual discourse that led me to the position that God (if he existed in the way described by many of the modern religions) would be the definition of tyrannical oppression.

I believe the idea of God and gods came to be because of a human need for direction, for authority. Those who feel helpless in the face of the cruelty which is reality turn first to those who can lead them to safety (i.e. Kings, Generals, Governments) but when all the authorities of mankind fail the helpless see an "infallible" authority, one that knows no corruption and is omnipresent. Our fear and lack of understanding of the unknown drives us to the most primitive states which cause us to sacrifice reason and logic for an invisible security blanket.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 01:29 PM
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Both Hitchens and Dawkins seem better at proving Deism with their arguments than quashing it. Just my opinion. Well not just mine, but you know what I'm saying.

If only Hitchens had been as intelligent and honest as Antony Flew.


For much of his career Flew was known as a strong advocate of atheism, arguing that one should presuppose atheism until empirical evidence of a God surfaces. He also criticised the idea of life after death,[3] the free will defence to the problem of evil, and the meaningfulness of the concept of God.[4] In 2003 he was one of the signers of the Humanist Manifesto.[5] However, in 2004 he stated an allegiance to deism, more specifically a belief in the Aristotelian God, stating that in keeping his lifelong commitment to go where the evidence leads, he now believes in the existence of God…

…In the article Flew states that he has left his long-standing espousal of atheism by endorsing a deism of the sort that Thomas Jefferson advocated ("While reason, mainly in the form of arguments to design, assures us that there is a God, there is no room either for any supernatural revelation of that God or for any transactions between that God and individual human beings."). Flew stated that "the most impressive arguments for God’s existence are those that are supported by recent scientific discoveries" and that "the argument to Intelligent Design is enormously stronger than it was when I first met it".
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 02:16 PM
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Just as anything the obtuse left or right meet.Atheism at it's core is also religion...a belief.I am not judging atheist(which I think are very few in number).Just as it is impossible to prove there is a God it is equally impossible to disprove.The inclination to do so is only belief.

The fact is if there is a God no one can know that as fact unless that God reveals themselves.Belief will remain belief either way if they don't.I do agree with Christopher on one salient point.Religion is an insidious disease that infects from the inside out...however...it is the natural state of man.It is inescapable. ALL is religion.What is the cure...ironically enough ...I think religion is.It is like an inoculation.

Those sickest of religion receive the highest dose.In one sense they won't be cured of it until they die of it...or more accurately die to it.(even though they will probably die before that happens).It is a disease no one can"know" they have because the core of it is belief....another ironic twist.The bottom line is it is here.It won't be going away soon because it is mute.Those that rage against one form of it ignorantly are just as sick with another form.

There isn't a mirror big or bright enough for the world to see their own condition. Fortunately all will be cured completely of it.The method is unorthodox because the illness is severe.Be good to one another.Your neighbor is very sick and needs help.The best help you can give them is leave them alone and don't try to cure them with more of your disease.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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I would love to interview Hitchens in his afterlife.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 03:28 PM
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LoL

You get yourself all riled up hatin' on religion in a thread about original sin and have to vent by posting a youtube video that agrees with you so you can say, "SEE"!

Sooooo pathetic hahahahahaha



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


I posted this before......Durrrrr
Just inspired to show the disdain I have for man made religion and how you want and accept yourself into slavery...well done for using your free god given will.
edit on 5-8-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


I posted this before......Durrrrr
Just inspired to show the disdain I have for man made religion and how you want and accept yourself into slavery...well done for using your free god given will.
edit on 5-8-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)


You post pretty much the same opinion every day, all day. We all get it, you don't like religion.

I find it hard to fathom how you think yourself a good and just person when support mocking people and spewing your hatred everywhere you go.

It is pathetic and comes across as extremely desperate and a cry for help.

EDIT
Honestly when you come across as so hateful and unhappy very few people would ever want to participate in what you are trying to sell.
edit on 5-8-2013 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


I don't give a monkeys what you think about me, I am able to use my own mind and come up with conclusions to the big questions myself, I don't need someone else to explain it for me.
I look around the world and have decided fighting against religion is a good fight.
I read the same old BS on ATS everyday saying "accept jesus or goto hell" so I will stand up against that.
Don't like what I type..don't read it then.
Oh and FU trying to tell me about my life what you know nothing about, Iam well chuffed at the moment got a new job doing something good for others which I do because It feels right...not because Iam scared into doing good by the threats of some slave master called God.

edit on 5-8-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


I don't give a monkeys what you think about me, I am able to use my own mind and come up with conclusions to the big questions myself, I don't need someone else to explain it for me.
I look around the world and have decided fighting against religion is a good fight.
I read the same old BS on ATS everyday saying "accept jesus or goto hell" so I will stand up against that.
Don't like what I type..don't read it then.
Oh and FU trying to tell me about my life what you know nothing about, Iam well chuffed at the moment got a new job doing something good for others which I do because It feels right...not because Iam scared into doing good by the threats of some slave master called God.

edit on 5-8-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)


Then by all means FIGHT!

Take it to the streets man . . . make a sign~!



Maybe you should take your own advice and ignore those threads that say things you don't like . . .



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


Why should I ignore what is wrong with the world? I see Religion as a tool for men, not god.
Why should I sit back and let others use religion to convert others, to control, to make money of the poor and the weak willed.To use religion to tell people that something that will save millions in Africa is evil.
No I will fight against it in my own way be it on ATS or other sites.
You want to be a slave and call your God master and the almighty be my guest but expect flack from people who will not fall for the biggest lie told to man....religion.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by boymonkey74
Just inspired to show the disdain I have for man made religion and how you want and accept yourself into slavery...well done for using your free god given will.

Most people are taken into a faith or belief system by their parents. They hit the addiction marker before free will becomes prevalent (10 years of age and over). Until they release into adulthood, they may not have a chance to choose to quit the faith especially if the parents place pressure and peer groups are religious.

We all make choices and at some point we are responsible for the choice to stay inside a faith or belief system or not.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by greavsie1971
There are many videos of him on youtube, sometimes he 'wins' the debate, sometimes he 'loses'. This doesn't really prove anything other than he is a good debater.



LOL To say that Hitchens lost a debate is to say that what his opponent declared was correct. Pretty sure I've seen all of Hitchens' debates. I've seen him tired and go off topic, but I've never seen any of his opponents offer a valid proof of god.

I believe Hitchens struggled against W.L.Craig. But it was only because he either didn't have enough time to reply or he just hadn't thought much about it. Craig presented evidence claiming that the odds of the universe occurring naturally were simply staggering. To Craig, this was the proof that a god created it. This doesn't mean that Hitchens lost, but rather had nothing in his arsenal to prove Craig wrong.

The proof is this: A forest fire does not prove the existence of an arsonist.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


I would have hated to be the Catholic Bishop in the video, he destroyed them.
BTW for those who didn't even bother to watch the video, A debate between Hitch and Stephen fry vs a catholic bishop and anne widdercombe.

Motion is the Catholic church a force for good in the world.
Before the debate.

Yes 678
No 1102
Undecided 346

After the debate

Yes 268
No 1876
Undecided the rest.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by boymonkey74
 

Now there is a group of people with firm convictions!



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by jiggerj
 


I would have hated to be the Catholic Bishop in the video, he destroyed them.
BTW for those who didn't even bother to watch the video, A debate between Hitch and Stephen fry vs a catholic bishop and anne widdercombe.

Motion is the Catholic church a force for good in the world.
Before the debate.

Yes 678
No 1102
Undecided 346

After the debate

Yes 268
No 1876
Undecided the rest.


I've seen it. S. Fry handled himself very well.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 07:56 PM
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I just watched the video. I have read the book. CH is a good debater, however misled.

The problem is not religion, it is man. Man is corrupted by power, prestige, wealth, and lust. The men who seek these attributes may well be neurotic at the least, if not psychotic. It is no wonder there is a problem with the teachings of God. There is a problem with the teachings of man as well. People do not naturally obey the law. One in two hundred people in California are incarcerated. Many have not been caught.
Have you noticed that in countries where there is a regime change, e.g., Egypt, Cuba, etc., the new regime is as corrupt as the old?

So, God intervenes to make a better way. Countless acts of kindness, charity, care, etc. later, the comparatively few instances of social damage are emphasized over the massive amounts of goodness. Was there any mention of the work of Albert Schweitzer to the poor of Africa? Was there any mention of how Christianity elevated the social status of women? Was there any mention of how Christianity began the long road to freedom from slavery? No, of course not.

Just as in California incarceration rates, if we look at the one in two hundred bad pastors, reverends, or popes, and ignore the one hundred ninety nine others who have selflessly dedicated their lives, fortunes and sacred honors to the betterment of mankind, then shortsighted men like CH will have tricked our minds into believing that the greatest act of kindness of God was for naught.

Shame on you, CH. May God have mercy on your soul.

For those of you who wish to have a "valid proof of God," try YouTube. For example, "Science Proves the Existence of God." For simpler scientific proof, see www.halos.com. There is plenty of proof of God. Even the greatest atheist of the 20th century has changed from atheism to deism. Even he said that there can be no reason to disbelieve in God since discoveries made in 1979. en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 8/5/2013 by Jim Scott because: improved

edit on 8/5/2013 by Jim Scott because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2013 @ 09:48 AM
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Here's the irony. Hitchens would never shut up bashing christians and God. He ended up dying from throat cancer.



posted on Aug, 6 2013 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by boymonkey74
 


Thanks for posting this. It needs to be heard, and I'm glad Hitchens said and wrote the things he did while he was with us. For religious followers to try to defend barbaric, fear-based, exploitative manipulation is beyond insane.

I'm not an atheist (more of an Agnostic Deist), BUT nevertheless, everything he says about the organized Abrahamic religions is spot on. Religion does not cause morality, nor does it tenets make sense - and I think this compilation video makes that VERY clear. In fact, his points seem to me to be indisputable facts. I hope every pious member watches it and thinks it over.




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