David Icke is Lucis Trust so the TM is dead - rite ?

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posted on Aug, 4 2013 @ 02:00 PM
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Hi all, I'm putting together a new series on the coming Lucis Trust and nwo "planetary energies" and "mystery of divine electricity"...


Part 1 - NWO ENERGY UPDATE..(LucisTrust DIVINE ELECTRICITY)




Part 2 - INFOWARS introduces The Lucis Trust Mysteries - NWO

*Important, features the Illuminati Card Game as further proof (even though I missed out several cards like the "Druids" who Bailey talks about preserving the 'shawow' of the mysteries in rites and rituals..[Ponder On This - Lucis Publishing, Page 16] ... "Secrets Man Was Not Meant to Know" ... "Messiah"..the coming Christ talked about by Benjamin Creme, Alice Bailey etc... because of youtube video length constraints)



(I plan to fix the video titles later to reflect they are a series..)

_____________________________________________________________________


My question for discussion though (..if I may) is broadly about the Truth Movement - whether or not it "still exists"...


For example... if a relative novice can put together a couple of videos showing David Icke and the other initiate sidekicks BLATENTLY teaching us "the ancient mysteries" or the Lucis Trust NWO "The Plan" as TRUTH.. where then does this leave the Truth Movement ?

Is it Dead ?


Thankyou for your replying.




posted on Aug, 4 2013 @ 02:47 PM
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My only "crime in this brave new world"....




is trying to get the word out.



posted on Aug, 4 2013 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by eastendkid
 
Flagged for later veiwing (and a star)


Now don't make me regret that star! jk



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by eastendkid
 


Icke is a new ager/theosophist but guess what?...he's sane and pro-human species.

unlike the insane new world odor which is insane and is anti-human species.
edit on 5-8-2013 by John_Rodger_Cornman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2013 @ 12:41 AM
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Which of the increasingly twisted truths do you want to believe are real?

The truth is so abstract a concept that it can't really be known, but its pursuit is universal regardless of whether you believe in the greater truths of Religion or Science, or the lesser truths of David Icke.

PS. I like the one about the Hollow Earth the best. They got Dinosaurs!



posted on Aug, 6 2013 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman
 



Thanks for watching / replying.



Icke is a new ager/theosophist but guess what?...he's sane and pro-human species.

unlike the insane new world odor which is insane and is anti-human species.



Lucifer, the force behind Theosophy, the New Age Movement and the New World Order...pro-human ? In what way ? The NWO Illuminati card game (Earth Magic) Icke is enacting...pro-human ?


I don't think secret disciple of Alice A Bailey, David Icke... and his luciferian philosophy 'Freedom Road' is the solution to this current OLD world order.. I think THAT IS the envisioned NEW world order ..at least the luciferian vantage point to it...


As David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations and Luciferian is quoted as saying ...



"No one will enter the NEW WORLD ORDER unless he or she will make a pledge to WORSHIP LUCIFER. No one will ENTER THE NEW AGE unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation..."

[emphasis added]

I believe Spangler makes no distinction between the three, simply I believe, because there isn't one to be made. All three..the nwo, new worship of Lucifer, and the new age.. are indeed one, as I attempt to show in video one and hope to show in the continuing series. And the Mystery of Electricity Icke is introducing us to is the 'luciferian initiation' Spangler is speaking about.. And I have no doubt of this.


A new (luciferian) age for humanity under the inspiration and auspices of Lucifers allseeing-eye -- that's the basis of the new world order right ?

edit on 6-8-2013 by eastendkid because: grammar..



posted on Aug, 11 2013 @ 10:08 AM
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It depends on what you mean by "truth movement". Specific people,shows etc? I don't know and I don't care to be honest. If what you meant is people searching for the truth and supporting it in any way they can then you shouldn't worry about it. There will always be a "truth movement".



posted on Aug, 18 2013 @ 02:14 PM
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Hi all, just some more info on the coming nwo "planetary energies" and "mystery of divine electricity"...



Part 3 - INFOWARS introduces The Lucis Trust Mysteries pt2 - NWO

I should probably have named this part "INFOWARS introduces The Love Energies of the ANTICHRIST"... To understand why, Please go to about from 15:10? minutes in - where I begin quoting directly from lucistrust.org about the 'love energies their antichrist will use'....

Anyway this part attempts to explain further cards of the * ILLUMINATI CARD GAME - as well as attempting to give a general understanding of what Infowars are trying to push through right under everybodies noses. And there's still more to come on this subject such as explaining the coming INITIATION that the nwo have planned.

Several things are in play here.. hidden energies of the earth, demonic 'regions' of the earth, and demonic energy..

The fallen angels are the ones revealing some of the HIDDEN SECRETS OF CREATION here I believe, just as they did in the days of Enoch/Noah [Source: Book of Enoch chapter 8]. Then also revealing some of the hidden demonic regions of the earth where the higher powers are concentrated.. as 'being sacred'. Regions where soul travel/astral projections is undertaker, or from where their highest occultic powers are projected etc.

But.... by revealing and teaching this "manipulation of energes", these fallen beings are also engaging in the occultic warping of the spiritual craving of man.. as is seen in many a secret society or NASA say, introducing the concept of traveling beyond the earth planet to man.

The original question is still up for discussion, and as ever, thanks for watching.

-------------


* 15:10 minutes in truthseekers!
Source:www.lucistrust.org... (first and last paragraphs)



posted on Dec, 17 2013 @ 06:49 PM
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NWO ENERGY UPDATE..(INTER-PLANETARY Secret Societies)




Part of the NWO Lucis Trust Mysteries series.


Please note this upload is an 'extended compilation', not a final movie.. Basically the series so far is summarized in updated form till time 1 HR 22 MINUTES... and then summarized again in the final 8 MINUTES...

Introducing the NWOs "INTER-PLANETARY SECRET SOCIETIES" (from 56:00 MINS) - compiled to show Infowars.com involvement with the esoteric NWO.

But please see the various "PROOFS" throughout the entire 2 hour video though..
And feel free to re-upload any segment also.

(and feel free to re-upload any segments you may wish to)


Glad I could come back to ATS...Thank you for watching!



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 07:40 AM
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There's no way David Icke is Lucis Trust, any person who has new ideas gets labeled as something bad, he's a new ager with out of the ordinary views, why can't we leave it at that?



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by conspir81
 


The reason why DAVID ICKE IS LUCIS TRUST is here: Introduction, Objective and Method, lucistrust.org

In the latest part of my series where....

I DOCUMENT PROOF OF DAVID ICKE pushing EVERYTHING ON THAT PAGE ! then try to explain it all in the the context of the nwos coming NEW-LUCIFERIAN-AGE..

I hope I won't get banned by ATS or something

[url=http://www.lucistrust.org/en/arcane_school/the_electric_bridge/introduction_objective_and_method[/url]




Introduction and Objective

Since the time of Isaac Newton, conventional science has been doggedly pursuing a ‘gravity only’ model of the universe, currently regarding it as a tomb of lifeless matter that exploded into being out of nothing and which is expanding at an accelerating rate in all directions without aim or purpose. These suppositions have been supported with increasingly exotic theories such as the Big Bang, General Relativity, Black Holes, Dark Matter/Energy and the like. Meanwhile, evidence to the contrary is steadily accumulating which supports instead the esotericist’s view
of the universe as a living, stable organism, electrical in nature and function.

The electrical nature
of universal processes runs as a theme throughout the Tibetan Master’s work via the writings of HP Blavatsky and Alice A. Bailey which are intended to be bridging treatises between the material knowledge of man and the science of the initiates. This is likely to continue in the next phase of the Ageless Wisdom teachings too, preparing humanity for the energy of Love in its dynamic, electrical form which the Christ will employ when He reappears.... [SEE ILLUMINATI CARD GAME "MESSIAH"
]

This electric
aspect of Love will help lay the foundations for that "synthesis of all the single men" of which Browning spoke, and which is hinted at in the following passage from Esoteric Psychology vol I:
"The seventh ray works in connection with the phenomena of electricity, through which all life in the solar system is coordinated and vitalised. There is an aspect of electrical phenomena which produces cohesion, just as there is an aspect which produces light…this will be released in fuller measure during the Aquarian age…One of its earliest effects will be the increased understanding of brotherhood and its really scientific basis." (Esoteric Psychology, Vol. I, pp 373-374)

It is with the increased understanding of the science of brotherhood and the relationship between consciousness and electric phenomena that The Electric Bridge is concerned. It is dedicated to linking esoteric and exoteric science
and to highlighting scientific discoveries that further reveal the electrical nature of reality and their relation to the Ageless Wisdom perspective. Understanding electricity is the key to integrating science into a unified whole and providing a magnetic foundation in which the Divine Plan can deepen its roots and future esoteric teaching can safely flourish.

We invite all who have an interest in science and philosophy to follow the steady development of The Electric Bridge site, and join us in group reflection and occult brooding on the electrical interconnectedness of all life. The vivid thoughtform thus constructed can help stimulate scientific awakening and a long overdue revelation concerning humanity’s relationship with the universal whole. "The establishment of brotherhood as a definite fact in nature" may then follow as a natural corollary.

Method

The Electric Bridge is a powerful symbol for serving in the fields of science and philosophy. As a service activity of the Arcane School, its aim is to help bridge the hiatus between esoteric and exoteric science through the language of electricity. It is the synthesising nature of electricity that will provide the foundation for a new Aquarian Science of Interconnectedness, enabling occultism to liaise with the science of the finite mind and demystify the divine nature of reality.

The following visual approach is suggested in conjunction with study of the Electric Bridge. It need not be a separate activity but rather a method of spiritual reading that can transform traditional study into a potent service:

Visualise a line of lighted energy along with those created by other co-workers, penetrating into the science of the initiates and anchored in the science of humanity.
Engage creatively with extracts from the presentation through occult brooding, building the resulting point of mental tension into this luminous bridge and strengthening the link between the two worlds of thought.
Visualise the energy of the mysteries reverberating down the bridge, evoking new thinking in scientific circles on the electrical nature of reality.

The Electric Bridge is ultimately a symbol of the antahkarana, indicating the electrical nature of the path as portrayed in the Tibetan’s words below. The key to more advanced work with this service enterprise is to be found herein:
"There appears a triangle on the mental plane, produced by manasic activity, and this triangle of fire begins slowly to circulate between the manasic permanent atom, and a point at the centre of the egoic lotus, and thence to the mental unit, which has appeared upon the fourth subplane through innate instinct approximating mentality. This triangle of fire, which is formed of pure electrical manasic force, waxes ever brighter until it produces an answering vibration from both the lower and the higher. This triangle is the nucleus of the antaskarana. The work of the highly evolved man is to reduce this triangle to a unity, and by means of high aspiration (which is simply transmuted desire affecting mental matter) turn it into the Path and thus reproduce in a higher synthetic form the earlier "path" along which the descending Spirit came to take possession of its vehicle, the causal body, and from thence again work through the lower personal self." (A Treatise on Cosmic Fire p.709)

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Video PROOF in latest video, and tell me how David CAN'T be lucis trust...> ?

(Thank you ATS btw)
edit on 21-12-2013 by eastendkid because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-12-2013 by eastendkid because: formated, fixed link, calmed down a bit



posted on Dec, 21 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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Interesting theory OP, but I see a little problem...

The fact that your using Infowars as a source makes one think this is questionable.



posted on Dec, 22 2013 @ 04:36 AM
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Using Infowars because that's where David Icke is promoting the LUCISTRUST esoteric teachings.. and being backed up by Alex Jones . instead of being exposed by him.

Consider how easy it is for Infowars to tell the truth... by simply linking to 'one' lucistrust.org webpage as I did.. or explaining just 'one' Steve Jackson illuminati card.. And I have plenty more cards to explain..

..its supposed to be the 'Truth Movement' right? and helping people 'wake up'.. 'escape the NWO right' ?



so why are they leading people directly to the Antichrist Energy of the NWO new-Luciferian-age lol ?
edit on 22-12-2013 by eastendkid because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2013 @ 07:03 AM
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reply to post by eastendkid
 





Consider how easy it is for Infowars to tell the truth..


Funny but those are two words that just do not go together...

Infowars and truth.

Consider this when was the last time Infowars ever told the truth?



posted on Dec, 22 2013 @ 07:28 AM
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Thorneblood

PS. I like the one about the Hollow Earth the best. They got Dinosaurs!


I hear the Dodo is alive and well there too!



posted on Dec, 23 2013 @ 01:28 AM
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Great !

Now for EVERYBODY ELSE ON ATS here to discuss INFORMATION and not "ats posting etiquette"


Here is the LUCISTRUST webpage David Icke, and also the illuminati card game cards featured in the video etc are trying to lead you into... ie the ESOTERIC NWO or NEW 'LUCIFERIAN' AGE.

..first introduced by Helena P. Blavatski as "the mysytery of electricity" which they below will greatly advance the work of the antichrist.... via the "externalisation of the hierarchy"





Introduction and Objective

Since the time of Isaac Newton, conventional science has been doggedly pursuing a ‘gravity only’ model of the universe, currently regarding it as a tomb of lifeless matter that exploded into being out of nothing and which is expanding at an accelerating rate in all directions without aim or purpose. These suppositions have been supported with increasingly exotic theories such as the Big Bang, General Relativity, Black Holes, Dark Matter/Energy and the like. Meanwhile, evidence to the contrary is steadily accumulating which supports instead the esotericist’s view
of the universe as a living, stable organism, electrical in nature and function.

The electrical nature
of universal processes runs as a theme throughout the Tibetan Master’s work via the writings of HP Blavatsky and Alice A. Bailey which are intended to be bridging treatises between the material knowledge of man and the science of the initiates. This is likely to continue in the next phase of the Ageless Wisdom teachings too, preparing humanity for the energy of Love in its dynamic, electrical form which the Christ will employ when He reappears.... [SEE ILLUMINATI CARD GAME "MESSIAH"
]

This electric aspect of Love will help lay the foundations for that "synthesis of all the single men" of which Browning spoke, and which is hinted at in the following passage from Esoteric Psychology vol I:
"The seventh ray works in connection with the phenomena of electricity, through which all life in the solar system is coordinated and vitalised. There is an aspect of electrical phenomena which produces cohesion, just as there is an aspect which produces light…this will be released in fuller measure during the Aquarian age…One of its earliest effects will be the increased understanding of brotherhood and its really scientific basis." (Esoteric Psychology, Vol. I, pp 373-374)

It is with the increased understanding of the science of brotherhood and the relationship between consciousness and electric phenomena that The Electric Bridge is concerned. It is dedicated to linking esoteric and exoteric science and to highlighting scientific discoveries that further reveal the electrical nature of reality and their relation to the Ageless Wisdom perspective. Understanding electricity is the key to integrating science into a unified whole and providing a magnetic foundation in which the Divine Plan can deepen its roots and future esoteric teaching can safely flourish.

We invite all who have an interest in science and philosophy to follow the steady development of The Electric Bridge site, and join us in group reflection and occult brooding on the electrical interconnectedness of all life. The vivid thoughtform thus constructed can help stimulate scientific awakening and a long overdue revelation concerning humanity’s relationship with the universal whole. "The establishment of brotherhood as a definite fact in nature" may then follow as a natural corollary.

Method

The Electric Bridge is a powerful symbol for serving in the fields of science and philosophy. As a service activity of the Arcane School, its aim is to help bridge the hiatus between esoteric and exoteric science through the language of electricity. It is the synthesising nature of electricity that will provide the foundation for a new Aquarian Science of Interconnectedness, enabling occultism to liaise with the science of the finite mind and demystify the divine nature of reality.

The following visual approach is suggested in conjunction with study of the Electric Bridge. It need not be a separate activity but rather a method of spiritual reading that can transform traditional study into a potent service:

Visualise a line of lighted energy along with those created by other co-workers, penetrating into the science of the initiates and anchored in the science of humanity.
Engage creatively with extracts from the presentation through occult brooding, building the resulting point of mental tension into this luminous bridge and strengthening the link between the two worlds of thought.
Visualise the energy of the mysteries reverberating down the bridge, evoking new thinking in scientific circles on the electrical nature of reality.

The Electric Bridge is ultimately a symbol of the antahkarana, indicating the electrical nature of the path as portrayed in the Tibetan’s words below. The key to more advanced work with this service enterprise is to be found herein:
"There appears a triangle on the mental plane, produced by manasic activity, and this triangle of fire begins slowly to circulate between the manasic permanent atom, and a point at the centre of the egoic lotus, and thence to the mental unit, which has appeared upon the fourth subplane through innate instinct approximating mentality. This triangle of fire, which is formed of pure electrical manasic force, waxes ever brighter until it produces an answering vibration from both the lower and the higher. This triangle is the nucleus of the antaskarana. The work of the highly evolved man is to reduce this triangle to a unity, and by means of high aspiration (which is simply transmuted desire affecting mental matter) turn it into the Path and thus reproduce in a higher synthetic form the earlier "path" along which the descending Spirit came to take possession of its vehicle [Illuminati card "Messiah"
], the causal body, and from thence again work through the lower personal self." (A Treatise on Cosmic Fire p.709)

Top of Page | Contents
lightblue-button-end.giflightblue-button-end.gif Send this page to a friend
Site Map | Site Index
© Lucis Trust. Terms and Conditions | Privacy Statement | About Us | Contact Us
Website by VisionWT Powered by eZ publish



Thats TRUE ATS'ers...lol



posted on Dec, 23 2013 @ 01:43 AM
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And to all GENUINE ATS'ers


Their are may many LucisTrust / Share International etc quotes concerning their NWO New luciferian Age that Icke is introducing..



"Every planet is surrounded by a magnetic field. It is made up of lines of force that criss-cross, and where they criss-cross they form vortices...These vortices have been replicated on the dense-physical plane by our Space Brothers as part of a NEW ENERGY GRID that Maitreya calls the SCIENCE OF LIGHT. This energy grid in relation to electrical energy brought directly from the sun will give us the new Science of Light as predicted by Maitreya." (BENJAMIN CREME, AETHERIUS SOCIETY)




"The Mysteries are, in the last analysis, the true source of revelation...There are PLANETARY ENERGIES AND FORCES which men as yet cannot and do not control; they know nothing of them and yet upon them the life of the planet is dependent; they are also closely related to the despised psychic powers...these powers...will prove of enormous usefulness in the sciences which the Mysteries will reveal" (THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHRIST, ALICE BAILEY, LUCIS TRUST)




"He [Antichrist] will also revive these mysteries in other ways...The true Mysteries will also reveal themselves through Science...The Mysteries contain within their formulas and teachings, the key to the science which will unlock the mystery of ELECTRICITY - the greatest SPIRITUAL SCIENCE and area of DIVINE KNOWLEDGE in the world, the fringes of which have only just been touched..when the Hierarchy is present visibly on Earth...[ UFO NWO forces of Evolution
] the true secret and nature of ELECTRICAL PHENOMENA be revealed..."




Contd... "Only when the Hierarchy is present visibly on Earth and the Mysteries [...] given openly to the world, will the true secret and nature of ELECTRICAL PHENOMENA be revealed. (ALICE A BAILEY "CHAPTER V -THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHRIST -III- REVELATION OF THE MYSTERIES OF INITIATION")




"There is one aspect of initiation which is apt to be overlooked. Every initiation is a process OF ENERGY TRANSMISSION(eg..David Icke at Peru 1991) from a higher center of energy to a lower; every INITIATION CHARGES THE INITIATE WITH ELECTRICAL FORCE, and this charging and re-charging is related to what H.P.B. calls "THE MYSTERY OF ELECTRICITY". These transmissions of energy enhance the magnetic-attractive force of the INITIATE..." (ALICE BAILEY & DJWHAL KHUL- THE RAYS AND THE INITIATIONS)


Please see Davids Project Camelot Interview part 2, describing his 1991 Peru Initiation


"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a LUCIFERIAN INITIATION." (DAVID SPANGLER, DIRECTOR OF PLANETARY INITIATIVE, UNITED NATIONS)




"The secrets, as imparted sequentially to THE INITIATE, are roughly three in number, though within them may be found lesser MYSTERIES which are earlier revealed. At the third initiation the first of the three fundamental secrets of the solar system is imparted to the initiate, immediately after he has taken the oath. This we might, for lack of a better term, call "THE SECRET OF ELECTRICITY." (INITIATION, HUMAN AND SOLAR - ALICE A BAILEY, LUCIS TRUST)




"There is such a thing as ELECTRICITY, that it probably accounts for all that can be seen, sensed and known, and that the entire universe is a manifestation of ELECTRICAL POWER, all this may be stated and is, TODAY, coming to be recognized. But..that has been said the mystery remains, and will not be revealed, even in partial measure, until the middle of the next century. Then revelation may be possible, AS THERE WILL BE MORE INITIATES
IN THE WORLD." (PONDER ON THIS - ALICE A BAILEY, LUCIS TRUST)




"From the angle of the illumined occultist it is meaningless, even more than it is to the average student, because as yet the MYSTERY OF ELECTRICITY AND THE TRUE NATURE OF ELECTRICAL PHENOMENA (than which there is naught else) is at this time an unrevealed secret, even to the most advanced of the modern scientists." (PONDER ON THIS - ALICE A BAILEY, LUCIS TRUST)




"The sixth ray differentiates that aspect of the universal electrical energy which we know as modern electricity, produced to serve man's material needs. The 7th ray period will familiarize man with that TYPE OF ELECTRICAL PHENOMENA which produce the coordination of all forms..Fohat Cosmic electricity; primordial light; the ever-present electrical energy; the universal propelling vital force; the ceaseless destructive and formative power; THE SYNTHESIS OF THE MANY FORMS OF ELECTRICAL PHENOMENA."



etc... now watch the 'fakers' come to discuss anything BUT the quotes and the subject



posted on Dec, 23 2013 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by eastendkid
 





My question for discussion though (..if I may) is broadly about the Truth Movement - whether or not it "still exists"...


Dead because it never existed. Who you call the truth movement anyway Icke? He thinks the Royals are shape shifting reptiles. How can you take his truth seriously.
What about the lesser known new age truth voices such as Project Camelot. You should go listen to some of their interviews. Common theme is all interviewees have little grasp on reality.

So to be fair I have to inform you there is no truth movement except the one which is you. Would a rationale person identify any human being as a messiah type of figure and follow their word? I don't think so.



posted on Dec, 23 2013 @ 11:43 AM
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Dead because it never existed. Who you call the truth movement anyway Icke? He thinks the Royals are shape shifting reptiles. How can you take his truth seriously.
What about the lesser known new age truth voices such as Project Camelot. You should go listen to some of their interviews. Common theme is all interviewees have little grasp on reality.
So to be fair I have to inform you there is no truth movement except the one which is you. Would a rationale person identify any human being as a messiah type of figure and follow their word? I don't think so.



Ah.. you're right ofcourse.. and thankyou for replying


Although for as long as I can remember, I've taken a similar view to the whole David Icke and Project Camelot thing..
I do think I've tended to somewhat romanticize..when it comes to the 'early' Truth Movement. Something your reply has definately opened my eyes to.


I still remember the 9/11 truth movement (pre Michael Moore etc lol) and other things back then that got me started .. your Barry Smiths etc.
Though ofcourse things have moved on a lot since then... and what I used to think of as the 'truth' movement is indeed today, just another NWO vehicle.

Eespecially since its Newage Infiltration sadly.




So to be fair I have to inform you there is no truth movement except the one which is you. Would a rationale person identify any human being as a messiah type of figure and follow their word? I don't think so.



Hmm.. Sure.


Perhaps though this is only as rational as the 11/11 ascentioners, 21/12 new-agers.. or the initiates of just about every occult fraternity, cult and lodge out there.. ?

Whom we also know at their upper levels believe they are evolving 'into' Gods.

Human beings like you and me right ?

But such belief is made only more irrational to me, as those believing such things, whether they do it knowingly or unknowingly.. all esoterically believe into an ancient lie... "and ye shall be as Gods"

And made even stranger since.. the working of the 'system' by which satan produces 'adepts for the advancement of his worship and lie over the centuries' is actually pictured in Matthew 4:8-9 for everyone to see... (Yes every leader of every false belief system has been raised up through this .. whether or not they they were conscious of it at the time is another matter entirely though lol.)

And like the video I made and quotes I cut'pasted - many a 'rational mind' will try to tell themselves it's not really happening..although clearly it is.

Here's to rationality....





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