Police kill armed 14-year-old boy on NYC street

reply to post by TheMagus

THEY DID NOT KNOW -SNIP- ABOUT THE KID

More of your "Assumptions?"

After hearing gunshots, two officers came across the boy, whom police identified as Shaaliver Douse, chasing another male down a street in the South Bronx, shooting after him with a 9-millimeter semi-automatic handgun as he ran.
The uniformed officers identified themselves as police and ordered Douse to drop his gun, police said. He did not do so, and one of the officers shot a single round, hitting Douse in his lower left jaw, police said.

www.reuters.com...

The "LEOs" heard shots, saw a man running from another man who had a gun in his hand; who didn't stop when told, and refused to drop his weapon.

Only an idiot with no common sense would think it's OK to ignore police with weapons drawn. I've owned weapons for more than 40 years, and the first rule I learned was "do not point it at another person unless you intend to pull the trigger."

"Trayvon" Douse was looking for trouble. He found it.

Its common sense. rookie or not, if a gun is pointed at you, cop or civie, you have a right to defend yourself if you think your life is threatened.

I am usually part of the cop bashing threads... only when I think they deserve to be bashed... in this case, it seems justified.

reply to post by jdub297

Only an idiot with no common sense would think it's OK to ignore police with weapons drawn. I've owned weapons for more than 40 years, and the first rule I learned was "do not point it at another person unless you intend to pull the trigger."

I agree entirely with your points here. I thought a bit about this and tried putting myself in the position of the kid in so far as...if I were shooting in a CCW situation and cops came up from another direction then yelled police? What to do...

I think I'd freeze like a statue and just hope...pray really quiet, without twitching if I could help it..that they were well trained and NOT trigger happy while I'm holding what could get ME shot in the next few seconds. The last thing I'd do is turn to face them as the first reaction.


** There IS one factor here though that occurred to me and it does make the above a tricky issue. It's only ONE factor, but it is a serious one. You said you're a firearms owner. In all your years, I am sure you have fired your weapons without hearing protection or with protection less than 100% secure at least once or twice...right?

Well, this hadn't crossed my mind earlier and I always hate bringing up issues later that actually may hurt my own OPs...but such is seeking truth on things, eh? Could the kid HEAR "Police!" or did he hear some mumbled 'something from someone' in a new and strange direction? Just a thought and it just wouldn't set well if I didn't toss it out here to sit for consideration. Could the kid's first clear knowledge that it was police been as he realized he was engaging them?

Firstly Mr Wrabbit, its illegal to pack in NYC for anybody, far as I know.
Secondly the kid may very well have been hearing impaired at the momentas he was just running and shooting moments before...thatll get the roaring in yer ears started by jim.
The truth is the Karma machine seemed to have been running smoothly for the event.......cops not withstanding....
The problem is you all talk the talk, but when somebody looses an eye the old responsibility for your own and others lives is a heavy burden, which few voluntarily wish to shoulder....
CCWs are for those who understand and accept the consequences,

What has his being 14 years old have anything to do with this.

Age 14 or 73, aim a gun at Police - expect to die. I have no problem with that.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

This is not a cop bash story. So, I doubt it'll get stars, flags or 1,000 replies all praising the OP as inspired and genius or something. Oh well... If I actually wrote my little pieces for that, I'd have given up a long long time ago.

I star and flag almost everything I see you post lol It's always well written and easy to read

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by TheMagus

 

THEY DID NOT KNOW -SNIP- ABOUT THE KID

More of your "Assumptions?"

After hearing gunshots, two officers came across the boy, whom police identified as Shaaliver Douse, chasing another male down a street in the South Bronx, shooting after him with a 9-millimeter semi-automatic handgun as he ran.
The uniformed officers identified themselves as police and ordered Douse to drop his gun, police said. He did not do so, and one of the officers shot a single round, hitting Douse in his lower left jaw, police said.

www.reuters.com...

The "LEOs" heard shots, saw a man running from another man who had a gun in his hand; who didn't stop when told, and refused to drop his weapon.

Only an idiot with no common sense would think it's OK to ignore police with weapons drawn. I've owned weapons for more than 40 years, and the first rule I learned was "do not point it at another person unless you intend to pull the trigger."

"Trayvon" Douse was looking for trouble. He found it.

edit on 4-8-2013 by jdub297 because: news

i see you've done a post and run, [hmmph, couldn't even stand your ground]

I see reading comprehension is foreign to you,
the kid was ID'd AFTER THE FACT NOT BEFORE OR DURING THE INCIDENT
the officers had no way of knowing anything. not his name, record/priors, or snip.

all the garage you're bringing up was dug up later, long after the corpse had become stiff.
had he been defending his mom from a burglar, the same crapspew would ensue and worse

you are free to use the search function for the myriad of threads here highlighting cases where a home owner was defending life, family and property only to be killed by the mindless "shoot first, make up BS if you f'd up, later" boys.

so as a 40 year "Sane" gun owner, you're firing blanks with your little cheap shot regarding projecting yourself onto Me. [you probably "learned" that at the academy, well do I know the cheap "psychology" taught in those diploma mills handing out "bachelors degrees".]


not to mention the fact that I've made no secret that I am quite "Insane".

so keep ASSuming

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by jdub297

 

I thought a bit about this and tried putting myself in the position of the kid in so far as...if I were shooting in a CCW situation and cops came up from another direction then yelled police? What to do...

I think I'd freeze like a statue and just hope...pray really quiet, without twitching if I could help it..that they were well trained and NOT trigger happy while I'm holding what could get ME shot in the next few seconds. The last thing I'd do is turn to face them as the first reaction.


** There IS one factor here though that occurred to me and it does make the above a tricky issue. It's only ONE factor, but it is a serious one. You said you're a firearms owner. In all your years, I am sure you have fired your weapons without hearing protection or with protection less than 100% secure at least once or twice...right?

Well, this hadn't crossed my mind earlier and I always hate bringing up issues later that actually may hurt my own OPs...but such is seeking truth on things, eh? Could the kid HEAR "Police!" or did he hear some mumbled 'something from someone' in a new and strange direction? Just a thought and it just wouldn't set well if I didn't toss it out here to sit for consideration. Could the kid's first clear knowledge that it was police been as he realized he was engaging them?

therein lies the problem wrabbit:
you are "projecting" your "Insane" practice of "putting yourself in another's shoes".
on those pathologically incapable of doing so.



p.s. flagged

There was a story of a white kid being shot by police not too long ago and all the right wingers were angry and not once was the kids past brought up.

Cops shoot black kid..past brought up..instantly. Without hearing full story..they were already cheering the cops for doing a good job.

Yeah no racism on this site...

reply to post by stirling

The problem is you all talk the talk, but when somebody looses an eye the old responsibility for your own and others lives is a heavy burden, which few voluntarily wish to shoulder....
CCWs are for those who understand and accept the consequences,

You have a point there. In my own personal defense to that sentiment? I'd say you probably know as well as anyone that the forums tend to supply a place we can all explore and "war game" these issues and scenarios in a safe environment with no immediate consequence. I believe (I HOPE) we're all much more conservative in our real world thinking when stakes and consequence are dead serious for all involved.

That's not to say I'm not myself or insincere, let alone anyone else. I do tend to let my mind explore different paths and aspects of a situation here, where that would never be viable in real life though.

Remember the 14 yr old was in the process of firing his gun at a fleeing figure when the police shouted for him to drop his weapon? Isn't there a reason gun owners wear ear muffs when they are getting in some shooting practice? Is it possible the kid didn't hear the "Police. Drop your weapon!" command and merely heard shouting and turned towards it?

Great shooting by the rookie, btw, if he just fired one shot and dropped his target instantly.

After the fact I think it's a good thing the cop took his face off he might not be too prteey laying in the box so maybe his friends will think maybe they won't be too pretty when they are gone . A local guy would shoot his enemies in the back of the head so they wern't pretty in their coffin. He ended up shot enough times there wasn't much to piece back together

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by Rocker2013

 

So you don't know who he was shooting at, and you don't know the circumstances, but you're willing to immediately say, without question, that the kid deserved to die?

No, I didn't read the whole article. However, the kid should have dropped the weapon and listened to orders. Don't turn around and point a finger at me for having an opinion. I have seen so many messed up people I'm not surprised by this news. I was just stating my opinion on the case.

Welcome to the notion of a forum, you have an opinion, I have a differing opinion, we argue and debate those opinions. Is this the first time you've used a forum?

None of us know the circumstances of this. But consider that he's a 24 year old boy, and that it's the middle of the night. You've just been shooting at an aggressor and another two men appear in the shadows screaming at you... don't you think it's at least plausible that he didn't know who they were? Or isn't it plausible that he was just a scared kid?

As I said, you don't know the details, and you admit that you didn't even read all of the information available. But even without that you immediately jumped to the defense of the police and justified his killing.

That's incredibly disappointing to me. Not everything is black and white, and coming to that kind of conclusion with such little information is an indication of some kind of bias opinion whereby the teen was guilty and the cops totally free from blame.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


I'm about 100% certain the rookie didn't MEAN to shoot the guy in the face like that. It's not a good shot...it's a statement to a very bad MISS. One inch further and the kid would have had first shot off on them. Having a friend who is retired NYPD to have talked about such little things with on other stories,. I know they are NOT trained to take head shots. No cops are that I've ever heard ...outside highly specialized units and usually, snipers for a very special and very meaningful shot that would be difficult to the point of outright laughable for a street cop with a handgun to try over maybe 3 feet away.

In reality, I think where he hit him is probably why only one shot was needed. If the rookie didn't lose his dinner on the "splash damage" THAT shot had to have made as the kid went down, I'm sure it was at least sickeningly obvious that another shot was entirely unnecessary. Kinda bad when looked at that way. I'm sure that's a partial face the cop will never forget, however much he'll want to, for the rest of his life too.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I'm not familiar with police procedures regarding the assignments but, just to be clear, the quote says they both joined the force in January. It doesn't say they were rookies, it doesn't say they were inexperienced. Is it possible that one of them was a suffolk county cop, or Detroit cop, for 20 years before moving to NYC?

reply to post by Crakeur


Well, it never says the status or experience of both of them. I would note though, the first paragraph of the Associated Press story in the OP describes the one who fired the shots as a rookie. Now that's probably something to take with a grain of salt in terms of treating as any established fact. After all, the media has been known to fudge language and details just a hair, from time to time, right?

For that matter, it's crossed my mind that "joining the Department in January" leaves a big question in itself. Assuming the rookie tag AP uses is accurate for the one, at least? Is "joining" the time he entered the Academy or the date he came out of it and joined the NYPD as a new Officer? Given only 8 months time has passed and I read 6 month timelines for the 'Recruit Training Officer' phase, I'm wishing the AP had put a bit more detail into that, myself.

Was he 8 months on the street or 2 months out of the Academy? (less actually, to look at the calendar?)

Have we found out how many shots were fired at this 14 yr old yet? I thought the whole point of aiming at he centre of mass was to minimise the possibility of bullets going astray, as well as to drop the threat most effectively? Has the person who was allegedly being shot at by this youth been found yet?

reply to post by Crakeur

Elsewhere, their ages were posted as 24 and 26. Minimum age for entry is 21. Many LEOs begin their training in the armed forces and move into law enforcement after separation from service.

Your hunch is probably good that these men had a few years' experience between them.

reply to post by jdub297


Obviously not enough to understand that someone who is in the process of firing a hand gun is hardly likely to clearly hear a vocal command.

reply to post by TheMagus

i see you've done a post and run, [hmmph, couldn't even stand your ground]

What I posted was from a Reuters story about the actual incident; nothing to defend.
You obviously didn't even bother to click the link for the full story and investigation pictures/links.

I see reading comprehension is foreign to you,

More ASSumptions and projection?
What a riot!
(Why is it that you can't follow a link or digest a quoted news story from an outside, "neutral" source?)

the officers had no way of knowing anything. not his name, record/priors, or snip.

The officers heard shots, saw Douse with a gun, chasing another man, after midnight, in the streets of the Bronx.
They didn't have to know "snip" about his past; the present was sufficient to justify the "stop."

all the garage you're bringing up was dug up later, long after the corpse had become stiff.
had he been defending his mom from a burglar, the same crapspew would ensue and worse

I have no doubt you'd "spew" more "crap," and worse, if a 14 yr.-old was running down the street, in the middle of the night, chasing another man, carrying and shooting a gun, for ANY reason.

Probably reminds you of your own youth.

As for the facts "dug up later," they just serve to show the police did the best thing possible for the rest of the neighborhood. Or, are you going to ignore them, as well as you have with the circumstances in the shooting at hand?

If you want the whole story, just look:
www.nydailynews.com...
www.nypost.com...
bronx.news12.com...
www.reuters.com...
Prosecutors Free 14 yr.-old Shooter Caught on Video in May, Police Shoot Him Dead

Sorry, Rev. Al, the "facts" dug up on this thug establish a simple truth: Good Riddance.