How the Soviet KGB created Conspiracy Theories

reply to post by Skyfloating


Let's go deeper into the rabbit hole. Let's suppose that the documents cited in the OP were wholly forged or partially altered by the FBI or CIA..

Seeing as how this conveniently seems to tie up all of the loose ends for the US government (minimizing multiple theories), we cannot discount that these papers are a COINTEL program..

More food for thought.

reply to post by clay2 baraka




Well...there's nothing I won't consider or entertain anymore. Staying open is a better research-tool than drawing final conclusions.

Originally posted by Cosmic4life
Don't let your Patriotism blind you to the facts that the Establishment is feral and has been for a long time ... they do not care about you insomuch as your blind patriotism makes you a useful idiot.

I won't go as far as to outright say you are trolling for the Government .... but wow Sky ..... just freaking wow.

I`m not a patriot. I dont care much about Government either. You got me wrong I`m offering an alternative theory on alternative theories.

I`m also a little disillusioned because I - at one time - bought into some of the theories that have now been revealed - by former KGB officers themselves - to be part of disinformation campaigns. And some of that really does make perfect sense. If I were tasked with hurting the enemy, I'd probably have created similar campaigns.

Originally posted by Cosmic4life

Are you saying there are no Conspiracies ??

You got me wrong on this one too. My OP is in itself a conspiracy-theory so why would I say there are no conspiracies? Try to read and think for yourself before coming to knee-jerk conclusions.

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
How do we know this thread isn't a disinfo agenda as based on what is says,

Ask yourself why 9 times out of 10 blaming any one other than America is considered "disinfo".

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I wonder... If one could know for certain and hold the ages of those 3 groups of replies up for comparison to what periods of time we've all lived through? How much would that correlate to the reaction each displays? I'm thinking the connection would be startling for it's clarity. That's me though....

My sense is that the longer you look at all of these conspiracy-theories, the more you see. So age certainly plays a part.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Yo OP what about the John Titor conspiracy theory if you do some research Titor mentioned that the Russians would free us Americans from a Tyrannical Regime in the future In fact I notice that an increasing number of Titorites are believing the Russians are the gud guys. Sounds like the SVR are involved somewhat

Originally posted by Skyfloating
A list of conspiracies that are supposedly Americas fault:

9/11: False Flag by the USA, Mossad.

* Aliens and UFOs: Cover-Up by the U.S. / Area 51 / CIA Cover-Up. Very little mention of Russias involvement.

* Police-State: America most often mentioned as police state, although the Soviet-Union / Russia have been more of a police-state.

* Secret Societies: American / European / Jewish. Hardlyany mention of Russian Secret Societies at all.

* Warmongering: USA most mentioned country. Hardly any mention of Russia or Soviets.

* Globalist Business - Most mention of USA, very little mention of Russia.

* Weather Manipulation: Mention of American HAARP program. No mention of Russia.

* Moon Hoax: American, not Russian.

* Religious Conspiracies: 70% Christian/American.

* MidEast Problems: Fault of America/Israel.

* Surveillance / Big Brother: The appearance is given that the U.S. is the major force in this.

* JFK: A CIA Conspiracy

The list goes on and on. There are hundreds of countries in the world and several Superpowers (Russia, China, Europe, Japan) and yet all over the Internet the U.S. is the main culprit. This may not be a coincidence and it may not be factual, it may be engineered.

Let's not leave out the darling among ATS'ers....
The ever popular catchphrase Al CIAda.
When in fact the current head of Al Qaeda who replaced Bin Laden is none other than a Russian trained agent according to your research.

Anti Americanism is served to the Sheeple like fastfood, they want their daily fix super sized and Russia is the Micky Dees of subterfuge.

People need to....Occupy....this thread so they get all their heads out of the sand.
S/F awesome thread

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Cosmic4life

Are you saying there are no Conspiracies ??

You got me wrong on this one too. My OP is in itself a conspiracy-theory so why would I say there are no conspiracies? Try to read and think for yourself before coming to knee-jerk conclusions.

It was a question.

See the double question marks ??

Actually Sky I maintain a healthy uncertainty about most things and most certainly do not prescribe to knee-jerk conclusions about anything.

And if I need your patronizing advice about anything I will ask for it.

C..

Russia Trained the Boston Bomber and Al Qaeda Leader in the Same Terrorist Camp?

JR Nyquist states that Tamerlan Tsarnaev (Boston bomber suspect #1) was trained in the same Russia terrorist camp as the new #1 Al Qaeda leader, Ayman Zawahiri. That Muslim training camp was run by KGB/FSB – Russian Intelligence.

Source

From,

The Terrorist Puzzle

source

Your conspiracy has recent legs OP.

A very interesting thread. Thank you for your research and well articulated post.

Personally, I'd also toss in the generality of the "oil Industry" into the latest versions as well.

We see an almost non-stop version in the political process around the world, especially the U.S.. Defame, disparage, attack.

In the U.S. the Dems "seem" more adept at this process than the Republicans,.I'm not sure about that, but the number lawyers of sent to Alaska to "investigate" Palin was stunning and largely ignored, media wise.

We saw the results of that with the Trailer Trash label and the history goes at least as far as Reagan who was going to start WWIII.

It even looks like it's now a required course in "normal" political training.

It's probably used by both sides in any Christian vs Muslim argument.

I've always had a growing disbelief in the unending litany of everything bad that happens to the U.S. is their own doing, planned and covered-up.

HOWEVER, the likelihood that some may be true cannot be discounted.

Seeing none of us really trust each other as far as we could drop-kick the other, especially when "links" to others seems to be the best they can do, what can you do?

Destroy the respect of the U.S. in the rest of the world, destroy the trust of the American people in their gov't, promote a fundamental change in the way the country does business and make it more and more popular....seems like a pretty good way to defeat what otherwise was not defeatable.

Liberty, (not freedom) personal responsibility and personal choice, destroy those and anything is possible with a population after that.....

reply to post by Skyfloating


Skyfloat do you honestly believe that anyone other than the most dim will accept your OP

Even by getting say 10-15% of the dim ones to believe this, it is not a real victory

It doesn't matter what videos you post.

Jews DO control the US, have you looked up the power of AIPAC and how it works

9/11 IS IN FACT an inside job

Kennedy WAS killed by his own Americans

Fluoride in water WAS PROVEN to decrease IQ in children

Israel IS IN FACT a bad guy in Middle East on the same level as Saudi Arabia

US DOES go into middle east countries to kill kill kill

I suggest you don't underestimate ATS folks, as well as those who read silently without posting, but chuckle at your attempt here.

I got news for you. US has gone bad, it needs a fix, BADLY

Originally posted by AnyoneSeenJustice
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

Skyfloat do you honestly believe that anyone other than the most dim will accept your OP

Even by getting say 10-15% of the dim ones to believe this, it is not a real victory

It doesn't matter what videos you post.

Jews DO control the US, have you looked up the power of AIPAC and how it works

9/11 IS IN FACT an inside job

Kennedy WAS killed by his own Americans

Fluoride in water WAS PROVEN to decrease IQ in children

Israel IS IN FACT a bad guy in Middle East on the same level as Saudi Arabia

US DOES go into middle east countries to kill kill kill

I suggest you don't underestimate ATS folks, as well as those who read silently without posting, but chuckle at your attempt here.

I got news for you. US has gone bad, it needs a fix, BADLY

There is a lot of "Dim" required to believe in all the false KGB subterfuges you posted
going through your list.....

anti-Semitic, check
9/11 CIA blamegame, check
Kennedy CIA blamegame, check
Flouride scare, check
more anti-Semitics stapled to Saudi US ally, check
USA bad bad baddie, check

Notice how Saudi's were recruited for 9/11 to fit the KGB storyline you believe. Why would CIA recruit from oil ally Saudi Arabia if they controlled Al Qaeda? If it's KGB controlled they shooting 2 birds with one stone, if CIA controlled they shooting themselves in foot twice. If they were CIA controlled in order to go after Iraq, then the CIA would have recruited Iraqi's not Saudis. Why recruit from Saudi if you want to stage invasion from Saudi? When applying logic, it is easy to see who benefited. Iraq invasion was coming inevitably before 9/11 happened, chance to stage from Saudi was hurt after 9/11.

Everything logically fits with the Skyfloater's conspiracy.

Yep, heck many former Russian, and also some former Chinese officers, have come forward to warn about this disinformation campaign by the communists and the KGB. One of many of those former communist officers was Anatoliy Golitsyn. Many of the things he warned about since the 1960s have come to pass.

November 14, 1990



Nagorno-Karabag: A Case Study in "Perestroika"

by Dennis R. Papazian, Ph.D.
Dr. Dennis R. Papazian is a professor of Soviet history, the founder/director of the Armenian Research Center at The University of Michigan, Dearborn, and a member of the faculty of the Center for Russian and East European Studies at The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. This paper is a preliminary draft/study written for oral delivery at the annual conference of the AAASS in Washington, DC, Friday, October 19, 1990.
...
More recently, Anatoliy Golitsyn, a Soviet defector of high status, has suggested that the Soviet Union is capable of disinformation on such a massive scale that even the Borkenau system is no longer viable.2 In a book first published in 1984, and of necessity written before then, Golitsyn argues that the leadership of the whole Communist bloc came to an agreement in 1958 in which it established a long range program, a master plan, which it would realize through a large scale deception of the West, a monumental scam.

Golitsyn maintains that the goals of the master plan were to provide a more profound political stabilization of individual communist regimes by developing wider mass support, the rectification of economic weakness of the bloc by increased international trade and the acquisition of credits and high technology from the West, the creation of a substructure for an eventual world federation of communist states, political isolation of the US from its allies, developing influence among socialists in Western Europe and Japan, the dissolution of NATO, and an alignment between the Soviet Union and a neutral, preferably socialist, Western Europe; concerted action with nationalist leaders in the Third World to eliminate Western influence as a preliminary to absorbing them in a communist federation, shifting the balance of power in favor of the Communist world, and the ideological disarmament of the West to create favorable conditions for convergence of East and West on communist terms.3

Golitsyn predicts that the Soviet regime will be stabilized by the creation of spurious, controlled opposition movements and the use of those movements to neutralize genuine internal and external opposition, and that it will encourage communist parties to establish united fronts with socialist parties throughout the world thus increasing Soviet influence in parliaments and trade unions.4

Some of the techniques, according to Golitsyn, will be dissension within the bloc, unity of action behind disunity of words, a show of weakness before meeting with Western leaders or before major initiatives or negotiations, and the heavy use of disinformation.5 This disinformation will emanate from official Communist sources, unofficial Communist sources, and "secret" communist sources, much of it retrospective. It is to be delivered through Western newspapermen, scholars, officials, and the Soviet intelligentsia.

It is interesting to note, in this regard, that most of what we believe to be happening in the Soviet Union still comes from Soviet sources, which are delivered directly to the West and are not always available internally, glasnost notwithstanding. Boris Yeltsin's book, Against the Grain,6 was published in the West in English, apparently to establish his bono fides as a dissident candidate just before he was elected president of the RSFSR. It has not been released in the USSR in any language whatsoever.

The final phase of the master plan, according to Golitsyn, is a disinformation and deception campaign of such magnitude that it would be "beyond the imagination of Marx, or the practical reach of Lenin, and unthinkable to Stalin. Among such previously unthinkable stratagems are the introduction of false liberalization in Eastern Europe and, probably, the Soviet Union, and the exhibition of spurious independence on the part of the regimes in Romania, Czechoslovakia, and Poland."7

Golitsyn predicted the "breakup" of the communist bloc in Eastern Europe as a technique to be used by the Soviet government to entice Europe to move more towards socialism and to align itself eventually with the USSR against the United States.8 The Third World would then join communist Russia and socialist Western Europe against the US and its allies. Then there would be a joint drive by the Soviet bloc and a socialist Europe to push the US out of Europe and into nuclear disarmament. A powerful world federation of communist states would emerge and the US would be induced to "converge" on communist terms.9

Such a plan would not only exceed the imagination of Marx, or the practical reach of Lenin, and be unthinkable to Stalin, but also defies credulity altogether. Still, despite its incredulity, it must be admitted that at least a year before Gorbachev came to power Golitsyn predicted in writing the breakup of the communist bloc and dissension within the Soviet Union. Since apparent change has come to Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union at a pace unimaginable only a few years ago -- unimaginable except, we must add, to Anatoliy Golitsyn -- perhaps it is worth the attempt to test the Golitsyn hypothesis in the light of what is currently happening in Europe and the USSR.
...

www.umd.umich.edu...



The fact that world banker elites like the Rockefeller family even founded "red revolutions" world-wide to create antagonism against the United States and American values, plus the fact that to this day the world elites still spouse "progressivism" as well as "socialist and even communist" ideology as "the tools that will save the world" should tell people that this was their intention for a very long time.

What to this day still gets me puzzled is that it has taken DECADES for these changes the world elites have wanted to apply to the world at large have been wanting implemented, and to be accepted by a large enough population, but... How in the world does this benefit those same people who started this "master plan" so many decades ago?

In the 1950s and 1960s most of the world would not have accepted these ideas and plans that are so readily accepted by people today but many of these world elites are dead or too old, as far as we know, so how does it benefit them?...

It is certainly a very entertaining book, but one that should be measured with a generous pinch of salt, not least of all because it is written by Christopher Andrew. I enjoyed it, and there are as many grains of truth as there are gaping holes. That Richard Tomlinson was involved in the recovery of the six suitcases of information sows some seeds of doubt, as does the fact that many of those named as verifying the validity of that information are dead.

Given that this is an 'official' record, written by British SIS, it can be viewed as counter intelligence in of itself, and there are definately elements of the book that hark of telling the reader exactly what they want to hear. But personally, that is what I found most interesting about it, and taken in comparison with Spycatcher and Nigel West's books, as well as Jim Marr's Crossfire, amongst others, it is not difficult to ascertain where the truth has been somewhat stretched to fit current SIS policy, and of course vice versa.

Overall though, I definately recommend it

Originally posted by TinfoilTP
Notice how Saudi's were recruited for 9/11 to fit the KGB storyline you believe. Why would CIA recruit from oil ally Saudi Arabia if they controlled Al Qaeda? If it's KGB controlled they shooting 2 birds with one stone, if CIA controlled they shooting themselves in foot twice. If they were CIA controlled in order to go after Iraq, then the CIA would have recruited Iraqi's not Saudis. Why recruit from Saudi if you want to stage invasion from Saudi? When applying logic, it is easy to see who benefited. Iraq invasion was coming inevitably before 9/11 happened, chance to stage from Saudi was hurt after 9/11.

Please tell me you are joking, if you are on ATS and you don't know about building 7 smoking gun, WHAT,

you think Russians put explosives in building 7, why do I even bother replying in this thread

wow. this guy is something else

I doubt they created them. I think it's pretty natural for your mind to question what really happened when something huge and earth shattering has just occurred. JFK or 9/11. People are just going to wonder. They probably did encourage them if it served some purpose but I don't think you have to create the idea that politicians and governments are not to be trusted.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Thanks for posting! I'll read it up later when I have more time.

S&F

Originally posted by StalkerSolent
Would Russia still be doing this? Good question. Some of these things you mentioned (like the tensions in the Middle East) really don't seem to need a hand to continue on. Or do they?

The Mideast wasn't always that riled up. In fact, most normal folks still aren't riled up. But there is some force that is feeding certain segments of the MidEast with all this "America is Satan" stuff.

I'd personally question any sort of information that riles people up, that divides them.