Woman fined $219 for not paying bus fare with exact change

Originally posted by VforVendettea
reply to post by snarky412

 

She should fight it.

It says right on the bill "for all debts public and private."
The bus driver took off that would be called kidnapping/abduction or some variation of it.

Where on the Canadian bill does it say that? I cannot find that...unless you think that all notes are similar to the American notes..

reply to post by snarky412


Of course youre not. Most people are bleeding hearts led by their first gut reaction to any situation instead of actually looking at it from all angles, or even just more than one.

Why is this even a news story? Because itll illicit emotional reactions from people and keep them coming back for more emotional articles. Same principle as a soap opera.

And you wouldnt be more easy going if you drove a bus for 40+ hours a week and encountered that situation multiple times a day, each person wanting to get a freebie... and if you did, youd get fired, because it isnt your place as a driver to be bending the rules for people who know them but dont care to follow them.

Originally posted by LevelEleven
For those that think that travel should be payed for, you honestly have a mental condition.

Do you know how cities and towns generally work . Actually, do you know how anything works in society? Are you new to our reality, level 11, fresh out of some alternate timeline communist utopia

The bus takes money to run. Its OK to ask for a small sum of money to help the bus KEEP running.

Also, novel idea... ready for it?

...

She could have walked.

For free.

No one is being forced to pay for "travel". They are being asked to pay to ride a bus. There IS a difference, but Im not even going to try to explain. Itll just fly over heads in here anyway.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


Don't even pretend to know me or figure me out.

I've been dealing with the general public for over 27 yrs.
We travel and have to deal with people from all walks of life.

In fact, we just spent the last 9 days working 13 hrs. a day outdoors in 100 degree weather.

So that 'cry me a river 'crap of working 40+ hrs. a week don't mean squat to me.
Been there done that and still doing it plus more.

---------
ETA: And she did offer to pay, it just wasn't in coins......

_________________

What if she did not have any ID with her ?
Would they have arrested her too ?, or did they just take
her word to identify her (as to write her name and address
on the ticket/fine) ?
Soon tptb will be chipping every one as with cattle.

__________________

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by VforVendettea
reply to post by snarky412

 

She should fight it.

It says right on the bill "for all debts public and private."
The bus driver took off that would be called kidnapping/abduction or some variation of it.

Where on the Canadian bill does it say that? I cannot find that...unless you think that all notes are similar to the American notes..

"Legal Tender"

On the left hand side.

le·gal ten·der
Noun
Coins or banknotes that must be accepted if offered in payment of a debt.

reply to post by snarky412


Wow, they can't give $2 change on a $5 bill? That is just silly.

In comparison .. here, in Denmark, it would have been the bus company being fined - not as a consumer protection, but by refusing the paper bill they would undermine the value of the fiat money, and we can't have that, so that is illegal.

(Some places can get a permit to not accept cash though, if the amount of cash otherwise needed would put the employees in unnecessary and unreasonable danger.)

reply to post by DupontDeux


According to the article, the bus is not set up to accept bills, only coins.
However the woman was willing to give the driver a $5 bill but that wasn't the proper protocol.
--Coins only--

So, she got fined a whooping $219.....
A little severe IMO.

Time for them to up-grade their 'money machine' to accept bills.

I own a business and I've had people skip out on bills or try and get around paying in one form or the other. Everytime, at the end of it, I just want it over and want my money. I usually don't want them coming back anytime soon.

In this case, I of course would have immediately accepted the $5 as it's more profit for me. Or, I would have given change from my own pocket to split the bill. In fact, if I did not accept bills or some kind of digital payment, I'd probably keep change around just for the instance someone doesn't have direct change.

And in the rare case when someone is trying to skirt the charges, or scam, cheat, steal and maybe even an innocent mistake, I just want to get on with my business because slowing down means I'd lose money. So she could pay, the other passengers could pay, hell, the tooth fairy could pay if the money was there!

No the difference here is these services are not run the same way a traditional business is. See, it's far easier to make cash the only available tender when nearly everywhere only wants to give you digital money, and in fact many people frown on cash these days, (people think I'm nuts when I have more than $100 on me-seriously when did this happen?)

Yep, see, far more profit making it hard for someone to pay, being ignorant to the point they will not pay on moral grounds etc. (I offer you this you wont take, F UUUUU)

And then just radio your "Inspector" to come write a ticket.

Just as someone mentioned the student thing, where students are getting charged $100 in fines for something only costing a few bucks.

This is a racket.

Not the worst, most evil, most prominent racket, but it sure is one.

You see, as a businessman calling the cops and dealing with them only hurts my business as I will lose more money just dealing with them.

On the hand, if you're the cops... You need someone to call you to make money.

And it's clear, everyone is trying to make money these days.

Ok so the bus company want to treat their customers like crap, and they only accept coins I would go pay the fine with a box of 21,900 pennies


I stopped using the bus over 5 years ago when my fare was £3.50 and gave him a £5 note he would not let me on, I even told him to keep the change and he said he can't do that.
Some people in their jobs are like soulless robot jobsworths. I think they would pull a muscle if they smiled.

Nobody on the bus couldn't help this women make change? I'm sure this wasn't the first time the bus driver had this problem. I would think this bus driver should carry some one's or the bus company should supply their drivers with maybe $20 worth of one's, just in case people do need change. You're in business to make money, why would you want to take a chance on turning customers away just because they need change?

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


Your attitude and alfa1 (shouldn't that be alpha1) is what is wrong with today's world. This is a woman with a two year old child getting out of the hospital and had a five dollar bill.

The issue here is the lack of humanity the man had shown. If everyone would lead by the balance of the mind and heart the world would be so much better to live in. We are all sharing this hard world, mads this way by creeps but if we all gave each other a little more humanity we could all breathe easier.

Enjoy the dystopian hell you so yearn to have.

Originally posted by snarky412

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
reply to post by snarky412

 

Absurd...not to mention cruel punishment for the supposed infraction of not having "exact change". Bureaucrats that make these rules have no common sense as they can not allow for exceptions to the rule.

If I was the driver, I would have accepted the $5, let her ride, then change it when I got to the station.
Especially with her toting a 2 yr. old kid and it being night time.
But that's just me.

The cash machines used by the bus companies are more or less safe-boxes with a slot at the top and some electronic coin validation on top. The bus driver doesn't have access to the coin box. It's a security precaution to make sure no-one would attempt to threaten the driver in order to get the money.

But these rules are insane. In the UK a woman was thrown off a bus and ended up being raped simply because she didn't have 20p to take her to the end of the route.

news.sky.com...

Originally posted by WeRpeons
Nobody on the bus couldn't help this women make change? I'm sure this wasn't the first time the bus driver had this problem. I would think this bus driver should carry some one's or the bus company should supply their drivers with maybe $20 worth of one's, just in case people do need change. You're in business to make money, why would you want to take a chance on turning customers away just because they need change?

i am sure that like the TTC (Toronto's transit) that they at one time DID carry change. the thing is that was done away with (back in the 70's) due to things like drivers being beaten and robbed for this cash. in fact i would also have to think that just like the TTC the drivers there are PROHIBITED from doing this (firing offense), much for the same reasons of theft. it's bad enough how many drivers are assaulted over "fare disputes", no need to have drivers known to and having to carry cash for change as well. so it is not really fair to blame the driver for not providing change, which could likely have cost him his job. it is not "nice" but then it was done to PROTECT the DRIVERS, and thus the transit company.

i have seen comments on the fact that the it seems rather too much of a coincidence that people shortly arrived to "check on fares" just after this lady didn't pay. again if they are anything like the TTC the driver has a "communication device", and that the driver used the device to report the issue (likely by just pressing 1 button). now before people get PO'D at that just think, the driver's JOB was AGAIN ON THE LINE if according to policy he DID NOT REPORT IT. i don't know if they have cameras on the buses there like MOST transit companies do now, but if they did and it showed that no fare was payed and yet it was not reported, and the passenger did not get off, THE DRIVER could have been CHARGED with THEFT AND FIRED. even IF there are no cameras the driver would likely STILL have been fired due to the fact that it is extremely likely a PASSENGER PO'd that the person got to ride free would call in a complaint, (that type of thing happens all the time unfortunately). so the driver really had NO CHOICE but to FOLLOW company POLICY, on risk of LOOSING HIS JOB, and livelihood, and even possibly being charged with a crime, thus limiting his ability to get another job.

so in NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM should ANY FAULT BE PLACED ON THE DRIVER over this incident. he HAS TO FOLLOW company rules. it is not like he had any choice in the matter.

i AM rather surprised none of the PASSENGERS tried to help out this lady (tho there is no onus to do that), many have been the times i have been on a bus and just about everyone looks through their change to see if they can change a bill for lower bills and change so someone can pay the "exact fare" or at least just slightly above the fare. so feel free to be mad at the fellow passengers for what happened to the lady, THEY likely could have DONE SOMETHING.

but the biggest problem here was the FACT that the TRANSIT COMPANY and CITY have CHOSEN to use a farebox that can not accept bills. that is NOT the DRIVER'S FAULT. that is the fault of the CITY and TRANSIT COMPANY. if the box had been able to accept bills the lady could have overpaid with the $5 bill and would have been fine. in fact if i were this lady i would take the "ticket" to court and claim guilty with a reason, the reason being that she was MORE THAN WILLING to PAY. but due to the TRANSIT COMPANY and CITY CHOOSING TO USE a fare box that would NOT ALLOW, LEGAL TENDER in the form of a BILL TO BE USED she COULD NOT PAY, through no fault of her own. that in fact it was the CITY and TRANSIT COMPANY that in effect WOULD NOT ACCEPT HER PERFECTLY LEGAL MONEY.

i AM rather surprised none of the PASSENGERS tried to help out this lady (tho there is no onus to do that), many have been the times i have been on a bus and just about everyone looks through their change to see if they can change a bill for lower bills and change so someone can pay the "exact fare" or at least just slightly above the fare. so feel free to be mad at the fellow passengers for what happened to the lady, THEY likely could have DONE SOMETHING.

reply to post by generik


I found that kind of odd myself. I'm sure there were enough passengers on the bus that could have given her change. I can understand the bus driver's point of view if he was following policy and he was afraid to lose his job. I just wasn't aware that bus drivers were not allowed to carry change.

I lived in DC for awhile and I would ride the bus down to catch the subway. I witnessed numerous outrageous incidents on those bus rides. One time this hoodlum boarded the bus and said he wasn't going to pay his fair. The bus driver said if he wasn't going to pay his fair he wasn't going to move the bus. He told the bus driver "who's going to make me!" This huge tall guy who was sitting near me stood up and said "I am mo##*r f**#er. One look at this guy the young guy high tailed it off the bus and everyone cheered!

reply to post by Garkiniss


Thanks for the picture. I was pressed for time last night so I couldn't scour the internet for a good image of it.

Greater Vancouver's transit system required exact change as far back as at least 40 years ago and may still require it. However, there are machines at all the major transit exchanges where you can buy a ticket using bank notes. I don't know whether the buses have such machines installed as I haven't ridden on one in probably 30 years.

In Canada there is no obligation to accept a Canadian banknote for the payment of a debt as both parties must agree on the payment method, which is why merchants can refuse to accept a $100 note for a $1 purchase. For example, movie theatres are well within their rights to refuse to accept a $50 bill to purchase a ticket as was the case in Vancouver a few years ago and transit companies can insist on exact change as was the case in this instance.
Source: Bank of Canada

Originally posted by NeoSpace
Ok so the bus company want to treat their customers like crap, and they only accept coins I would go pay the fine with a box of 21,900 pennies

The transit company is under no obligation to accept payment in that form.

In fact, Canada's Currency Act does not consider 219,000 pennies as legal tender for the amount of $219
Toonies ($2) are legal tender for amounts up to $40
Loonies ($1) are legal tender for amounts up to $25
Quarters and dimes ($0.25 and $0.10) are legal tender for amounts up to $10
Nickels ($.05) are legal tender for amounts up to $5
Pennies ($0.01) are legal tender for amounts up to $0.25