Americans committed the worst genocide in world history

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

reply to post by frazzle

 

You’re a kid???? Let me be the first to say you’re way ahead of the game. You may not be all the way there yet, no one is, but you’ve got a good start and you're paying attention.

Thanks.

I'm not that young now. I just turned 20. But I woke up at age 14, and at age 15, I made my own website and started a little club of other *awake* people around my age I recruited from school. Mostly, we just met up in my basement and updated each other on stuff once a week or so while my mum was at work, or planned things... prepping things, etc etc. It was awesome, really had it going, until I turned 18 and they all graduated and moved on with their lives, then it fell apart.

We woke a lot of folks up in school, though.

Now, I'm a lone-wolf DVD giver and keyboard warrior. Until I move back home in a few months, closer to other freedom fighters. I'll go from there.

Just to clarify, I’m not interested in holding anybody accountable for anything, even if that were remotely possible. I’m more interested in people holding themselves accountable without force or coercion, but with the understanding that they don’t always know what’s true and what is not, or what’s just politically expedient. But finding that truth is imperative, even though its often a harsh thing.

I understand. Its really not your intentions I had any problem with, its the "We hate America" bandwagon itself... meh. They'll die out, like any other fad.

I don’t think anyone has said here that “America is bad”, only that the American system has unquestionably done and is doing bad things, often against the wishes and better judgment or knowledge of the American people, just as it happens in any other nation or empire on earth.

But saying "Your ignorance is expected, because you're an American." is a little offensive and bias, isn't it? I know you didn't say that, but still.

Both Dawes and federal non-recognition are silent forms of an ongoing genocide and no one even knows its being done.

I didn't know any of that. And you're completely right in saying everyone needs to wake up to it.

But people insulting me, because I'm an American citizen, NOT because I actually played a part in this tyranny, is unacceptable, and people who do this generally provoke me to tune out of whatever argument they're making.

I'm certainly not insulting you for who you are, I'm an American citizen too. We all learn whatever it is that we learn whenever we're ready to learn it and not one minute sooner. As they say, when the student is ready the teacher will come. But again, you seem to have gotten off to a good start and you have an open mind so you're good to go.

And trust me, thicker skin comes with age, especially if you spend much time questioning authority. Worry piles on over the years, as well. I have a few grandkids your age and their future is heavy on my mind these days because my generation made some terrible choices and so did the generations that came before. Acknowledging the consequences of those bad choices that will impact the next generations isn't laying blame, its learning from mistakes and trying to pass on some wisdom so the kids will know to make better choices.

jmo

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

 

1) I don't think elections make as much of a difference as we'd all like to think.
2) I recommend State of Mind, a brand new documentary, hot off the press. Just google search for conspiracy documentaries, they're everywhere. Terrorstorm, Endgame, Wake up Call, etc.
3) its the "We hate America" bandwagon itself... meh. They'll die out, like any other fad.
4) But saying "Your ignorance is expected, because you're an American." is a little offensive and bias, isn't it? I know you didn't say that, but still.
5) But people insulting me, because I'm an American citizen, NOT because I actually played a part in this tyranny, is unacceptable,

1. Then continue that thought. If elections don't make a difference then what do you want? Revolution or rebellion? I may agree with you, I just want you to tell me, so that I can agree or disagree.
2. Thanks for the pointers.
3. If there is a "We hate America" bandwagon, I haven't noticed it. I only see a "If you criticize American history you're Un-American" bandwagon. I find THAT offensive.
4. If you believe I said "Your ignorance is expected, because you're an American", or even implied it, please tell me where, and I will recant or clarify.
5. I hope you don't believe I insulted you, or American citizens in general. I am one of them, btw. I repeated this again several times on this page alone.

You are, just as much as I am, stating that Americans need to be made aware of something they are not aware of. Are you not? And you are making an interesting point, you called the time period during which we had the wars against Natives a "tyranny". Did you do that intentionally, or did I misunderstand?

1 - Whichever is needed first. Its an unpredictable game.

2 -

3 - I'm not a part of that group. I think people throw "America" around too much. Both bandwagons focus on the country itself too much, and weather you're pro-America or anti-America, both sides are a form of nationalism, and manufactured division.

4 - I don't remember who said it, honestly. Its buried in the thread somewhere.

5 - Nah. I don't.

I was referring to the subtle genocide that Frazzle was talking about, not any specific time era, or any of the scwabbling of our ancestors.

Originally posted by frazzle

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

reply to post by frazzle

 

You’re a kid???? Let me be the first to say you’re way ahead of the game. You may not be all the way there yet, no one is, but you’ve got a good start and you're paying attention.

Thanks.

I'm not that young now. I just turned 20. But I woke up at age 14, and at age 15, I made my own website and started a little club of other *awake* people around my age I recruited from school. Mostly, we just met up in my basement and updated each other on stuff once a week or so while my mum was at work, or planned things... prepping things, etc etc. It was awesome, really had it going, until I turned 18 and they all graduated and moved on with their lives, then it fell apart.

We woke a lot of folks up in school, though.

Now, I'm a lone-wolf DVD giver and keyboard warrior. Until I move back home in a few months, closer to other freedom fighters. I'll go from there.

Just to clarify, I’m not interested in holding anybody accountable for anything, even if that were remotely possible. I’m more interested in people holding themselves accountable without force or coercion, but with the understanding that they don’t always know what’s true and what is not, or what’s just politically expedient. But finding that truth is imperative, even though its often a harsh thing.

I understand. Its really not your intentions I had any problem with, its the "We hate America" bandwagon itself... meh. They'll die out, like any other fad.

I don’t think anyone has said here that “America is bad”, only that the American system has unquestionably done and is doing bad things, often against the wishes and better judgment or knowledge of the American people, just as it happens in any other nation or empire on earth.

But saying "Your ignorance is expected, because you're an American." is a little offensive and bias, isn't it? I know you didn't say that, but still.

Both Dawes and federal non-recognition are silent forms of an ongoing genocide and no one even knows its being done.

I didn't know any of that. And you're completely right in saying everyone needs to wake up to it.

But people insulting me, because I'm an American citizen, NOT because I actually played a part in this tyranny, is unacceptable, and people who do this generally provoke me to tune out of whatever argument they're making.

I'm certainly not insulting you for who you are, I'm an American citizen too. We all learn whatever it is that we learn whenever we're ready to learn it and not one minute sooner. As they say, when the student is ready the teacher will come. But again, you seem to have gotten off to a good start and you have an open mind so you're good to go.

And trust me, thicker skin comes with age, especially if you spend much time questioning authority. Worry piles on over the years, as well. I have a few grandkids your age and their future is heavy on my mind these days because my generation made some terrible choices and so did the generations that came before. Acknowledging the consequences of those bad choices that will impact the next generations isn't laying blame, its learning from mistakes and trying to pass on some wisdom so the kids will know to make better choices.

jmo

Its all good.

I'm really getting tired of this. How many pages in this thread have you read? One?

On the first page, you, Thinking Human, write the following, as a response to Fidelity Music.

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by FidelityMusic
Correction, the Europeans committed the worst genocide in world history. I don't know where you get calling the Europeans "Americans," or even confusing them.

I get it, its not the Americans' fault. Never mind that they were Americans by then. Never mind that they're our grandparents.

Just as I said, Americans don't get blamed.

This looked as if you were being facetious, to me. If I am wrong, all apologies.

Originally posted by Catacomb

I'm really getting tired of this. How many pages in this thread have you read? One?

On the first page, you, Thinking Human, write the following, as a response to Fidelity Music.

Originally posted by FidelityMusic
Correction, the Europeans committed the worst genocide in world history. I don't know where you get calling the Europeans "Americans," or even confusing them.

I get it, its not the Americans' fault. Never mind that they were Americans by then. Never mind that they're our grandparents.

Just as I said, Americans don't get blamed.

This looked as if you were being facetious, to me. If I am wrong, all apologies.

edit on 8-8-2013 by Catacomb because: (no reason given)

I'm going to try to make this as simple as possible.

ALL THROUGH HISTORY IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD THERE HAVE BEEN GOOD PEOPLE AND BAD PEOPLE, THEIR NAMES AND ETHNICITIES ARE UNIMPORTANT SINCE IT INCLUDES THEM ALL. THE ONLY PLACES GOOD PEOPLE AND BAD PEOPLE ARE KEPT SEPARATE FROM EACH OTHER ARE HEAVEN AND HELL ~ WHICH IS A MADE UP STORY.

Blurring lines and trying to equate good with bad to make them all "alike" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Sometimes good people do bad things and sometimes bad people do good things but to deny that bad things get done simply because of national pride is crazy. No wonder somebody who smoked a bad weed goes to prison while rapists walk free, we don't know what good and bad even means anymore.

But if you hadn't already noticed, bad things are being done to Americans every minute of every day by other Americans wearing little American flags in their lapels who swear oaths to be good and 'honorable' people and to look out for your best interests. Believe them or believe your lying eyes.

Outta here!

Originally posted by Catacomb

 

I'm really getting tired of this. How many pages in this thread have you read? One?

On the first page, you, Thinking Human, write the following, as a response to Fidelity Music.

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by FidelityMusic
Correction, the Europeans committed the worst genocide in world history. I don't know where you get calling the Europeans "Americans," or even confusing them.

I get it, its not the Americans' fault. Never mind that they were Americans by then.

This looked as if you were being facetious, to me. If I am wrong, all apologies.

So I was correct, you read the first page only. I pointed out several times that the US government fought 30 different wars, all under US Presidents. Many of them lasted a lot longer than WWII. How can you anyone believe it was the Europeans? Any student of American history should know when those wars occurred.

Even the excuse with the diseases is fake. If they had done the job our ancestors wouldn't have needed to fight all these wars. These excuses are ludicrous to any objective observer. This is a mental disorder, to rationalize, to project, and to deny just to make oneself feel better, superior, righteous.

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman
25%? That's nothing.

85% + is what we did. We are known to do a thorough job. Nobody can beat us.

In terms of absolute numbers maybe you are correct with Stalin and Mao. Then we rank "only" third. Still pretty good, I'd say.

Nope, I'd give third to the Nazis. Over fifty million people died in their war of global domination. You will probably need to arm wrestle with Al Sharpton over who gets fourth place since he's big on that whole "millions of people died from the African slave trade" thing...but at that point we're pretty much working toward the goal of bashing the US rather than actually documenting history.

For one thing, you do know "American Indian holocaust" also includes the indians of Central and South America that Spain butchered and which the US had nothing to do with, right? Or, are the Aztecs and Incans not really Native Americans indians to you?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

 

Nope, I'd give third to the Nazis. Over fifty million people died in their war of global domination. You will probably need to arm wrestle with Al Sharpton over who gets fourth place since he's big on that whole "millions of people died from the African slave trade" thing...but at that point we're pretty much working toward the goal of bashing the US rather than actually documenting history.

For one thing, you do know "American Indian holocaust" also includes the indians of Central and South America that Spain butchered and which the US had nothing to do with, right?

Again.

Complain about my numbers but not give me yours. While you're at it, why don't you add a number for the slaves - which I had not even mentioned up to now. Anything to rationalize some irrational denial. Live in your fantasy world.

Blame Spanish, European, the Natives, anybody but our holy selves.

I don't get why this is even a subject.


History is the worst thing to even study. what can you learn from it? just simply learn what happened and sit there and #ing twiddle your thumbs and create some weak thoughts about how nasty it was back then?

then blame a culture or skin color as to why it is this day in age?


without any technology and travel possibilities, how can you determine the population in 1492?

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


why do you have such a hard on for blaming us?

The hell is your problem?

and it is about blame......not about the BS people spewed about "bettering us"....

lame.....really lame.

Your thread is fueled with malice and spirited with discord...not about anything worthwhile.

oh and "we"?

You were there and did these things? I wasnt and didnt so....stop using the term "we" Mr. self loathing expat.

Originally posted by tadaman

 

why do you have such a hard on for blaming us?
The hell is your problem?
and it is about blame......not about the BS people spewed about "bettering us"....
lame.....really lame.
Your thread is fueled with malice and spirited with discord...not about anything worthwhile.

The hell is YOUR problem?

Can't defend your point? You don't even have a point. Get a grip on yourself.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


I and everyones mother already expressed our points. this thread now brings out emotional diatribes from self loathing individuals too lonely to face their insecurities solo.

there is no point to YOUR thread any longer having served its initial purpose of blame shifting and creating division and discord.

spaniards didn't kill off the natives they interbred with them. there are way more natives that survived in mexico, central and south america. a friend of mine also pointed out how europeans came and practically killed off all the buffalo, and all the animals they killed for the fur trade. not to mention all the trees they butchered and all the fish they came in and snatched. the rivers and lakes were clean and pure before the europeans came. one could argue that eventually the natives would have done the same but not at the rate the europeans came in and decimated the land and water.

the first step is to accept and acknowledge the abuse the europeans did to this once great, beautiful land and its native people.

Indeed, there were many deaths of them, however it is not as if we just began killing them right as we arrived, spotting them out and shooting them down for no reason.. They attacked the settlers/the settlers attacked them.. Plus, it's estimated that most of their deaths were due to plagues.

Originally posted by TheIceQueen

 

Indeed, there were many deaths of them, however it is not as if we just began killing them right as we arrived, spotting them out and shooting them down for no reason.. They attacked the settlers/the settlers attacked them.. Plus, it's estimated that most of their deaths were due to plagues.

I have no problem with where you are coming from. But I suggest that 12+ years of school and a life-time of repetition of the same song has been inflicted on you, not by coincidence. It is in everybody's interest that you believe the 'convenient' story. Who do you think is the one that 'estimated' the deaths caused by 'plagues'? Did you notice that whites and blacks did not drop like flies from germs of the natives? Were they not in the same situation of lacking immunity to the foreign germs? Thirty (30) separate wars were not fought because the Natives had died already from diseases. Groups of people invaded each other throughout history, not that the people who came to what is now the US were worse. You just need to put 2 and 2 together to realize what happened. 100 massacres we know of (from 1810 on). And then you need to ask yourself why and how they are able to keep repeating a fairy tale, and why and how we all collectively are naive enough to buy it. I am not trying to re-examine history, you can look that up yourself easily. Before the internet that was much more difficult. I am trying to examine our naïveté. What does it mean about our understanding of history in general? How can we know anything about the Greeks or Romans? How can we avoid repeating history?

Originally posted by tadaman

 

I and everyones mother already expressed our points. this thread now brings out emotional diatribes from self loathing individuals too lonely to face their insecurities solo.

there is no point to YOUR thread any longer having served its initial purpose of blame shifting and creating division and discord.

.. and everybody's point I responded to. If this affects you emotionally, I suggest you read another thread.

Admit it, you have only emotion, no reasoning. You have created your own version of history and you are emotionally attached to it, you cannot let go of your fantasy. In your fantasy it is the Natives' fault that they were here in the first place. Why didn't they know better?

reply to post by ThinkingHuman

Admit it, you have only emotion, no reasoning. You have created your own version of history and you are emotionally attached to it, you cannot let go of your fantasy. In your fantasy it is the Natives' fault that they were here in the first place. Why didn't they know better?

again, the hell is your problem trying to attribute YOUR theory as to what people think and then handing out blame accordingly?

how did I create my own version of history as you put it? Where did I do that?

you can just make stuff up? Is that YOUR point?

if so its easily rebutted. I did not. Here is a little hint. Click on my profile next to me, see where it says "posts in this thread"....look that over. It will at least help you in making SOME sense.

also "not reasoning" is not an emotion. Neither is "eating up BS being spoon fed by ill qualified people". You seem to be the only one getting upset because I didnt praise you for this little anti American crapola you call a thread.

Originally posted by tadaman

 

again, the hell is your problem trying to attribute YOUR theory as to what they think and then handing out blame?
how did I create my own version of history as you put it. Where did I do that?
just making stuff up? Is that YOUR point?
if so its easily rebutted.

cursing, and blaming is all you know. And your fantasy world.

easily rebutted? then why don't you give it a try? Not able to live up to your self-delusion?

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


How did I curse at you? How did I make up my own version of history as you said before? What is your point to this thread that you still havent provided?

ect...

do that first.

and no. I did not make up my own version of history. There done. Prove me wrong. Easily rebutted.

Your entire last post is nothing but nonsense. More emotional diatribe from you about how you feel about me....

You really dont have anything left as far as this subject do you?

HOW is the US responsible of for the greatest Genocide in history when the greatest numbers of natives killed died under European rule?

How was the US responsible for the GENOCIDE of the natives? Not murder or bad things that no one denies, but YOUR OWN WORDS. How is the US responsible for GENOCIDE and not just that, THE WORST genocide in history?

That is just factually inaccurate. This thread is nothing more than your hate work against the US. It is made to cause discord and division amongst Americans. That is pretty lame.

You are ill informed, have not barely studied this subject and just pop off with programmed responses from some BS extremist Leftist propaganda that is as bad if not worse than an extremist right wing propaganda.

All your talking points play the emotional heart strings of people in hopes that some crazy notion of guilt for things done hundreds of years ago by and to people long dead will inspire some form of hate towards the US that you are too little of a person to cope with alone.