It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Americans committed the worst genocide in world history

page: 30
67
<< 27  28  29    31  32  33 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 09:05 PM
link   
I can't, man. I wish I could. I think it's mostly due to what children are being taught as "history" in school. I didn't wake up to it until I had a thirst for knowledge on the subject. We used biological warfare, enslavement, and ultimately caused the scattering and destruction of a proud and beautiful people. I was angry at my teachers for a moment, then I realized that they thought what they were teaching was the God's honest truth. I promise you, my children will know the truth of what happened the tribes of America. And they will know the truth about Columbus as well. Gotta let the kids know what really happened, and to not trust in just one book. Go read a few on the subject.




posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 09:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
 
You two are really trying to change this whole topic. It is supposedly about American's being responsible for the WORST genocide in history. It's full of nonsense.

They are robbing us, you and me. They come to us, the people and say "We need a trillion dollars to bail-out the rich guys because if they lose a few cents on the dollar, the whole world will collapse." Then they come again and say "We wrecked the economy, sorry guys, we need another trilllion to fix it." (This is not about D vs R). In 1970, our national debt was about 370 billion. This was after World War II, after we landed on the moon. Now we don't even have a vehicle to put a man into orbit around the earth. All the while, our debt multiplied 46 times over. What did we get for 17 of those piles? We brought "democracy" to Irak.

Our kids or grandkids will have 2 choices: a) they will need to repay the humongous amounts of money somebody else had borrowed, or, b) they will need to suffer the consequences of not repaying it. Which political party or jokster in "Congress" will support either one of these options?

But there is also option c) do nothing, just keep paying the interest forever. That is economic servitude, or serfdom. The war on terror is taking our civil liberties already, when the serfdom is imposed, we will not be able to protest. That is why we didn't get anything for 16+ trillions.

Taking the land from the Natives was basically a massive redistribution of wealth. Whenever the government "redistributes" it grows in power, in particular the power to take back away from you what it has given you.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 09:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by MilesTeg
 
I can't, man. I wish I could. I think it's mostly due to what children are being taught as "history" in school. I didn't wake up to it until I had a thirst for knowledge on the subject. We used biological warfare, enslavement, and ultimately caused the scattering and destruction of a proud and beautiful people. I was angry at my teachers for a moment, then I realized that they thought what they were teaching was the God's honest truth. I promise you, my children will know the truth of what happened the tribes of America. And they will know the truth about Columbus as well. Gotta let the kids know what really happened, and to not trust in just one book. Go read a few on the subject.

Thank you for your straight talk.

I also believe that the teachers believed it.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 09:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
 
You two are really trying to change this whole topic. It is supposedly about American's being responsible for the WORST genocide in history. It's full of nonsense.



I'm glad you posted that. It seems this thread has gone from posting information that is readily available at any public library if one cares or bothers to look. There is no conspiracy, no cover up, no avoiding the truth. It's just an attempt to point out known historical facts and to use it as a platform to spread their point of view under the guise of actually making some sort of point. Which it really doesn't.

Then they'll just accuse others who don't agree with their narrow and misleading views of being ignorant of the truth.

Which is in fact the farthest from the truth.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 09:18 PM
link   
reply to post by ThinkingHuman
 



How is blaming the Portuguese and "NOT Americans" not a lie? The 30 different wars that I quoted all happened under AMERICAN PRESIDENTS, not Portuguese or Italian ones.


And lets not forget these 14 guys ...

The Forgotten Presidents of the Continental Congresses and the United States under the Articles of Confederation

Article I.The Stile of this confederacy shall be "The United States of America".

www.barefootsworld.net...



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 09:24 PM
link   
reply to post by ThinkingHuman
 


"There were 50 million Natives living in what is now US territory."

I can't believe you get flags... You didn't even accurately read the article. The highest estimate in the Wikipedia source for the U.S. was 18 million. Plenty of settlers died from the epidemics that killed most of the Native Americans; the settlers just tended to have higher immunity. Only in a few cases was disease used as a deliberate weapon.

In Spanish areas, attitudes were shaped by the "Reconquista", the centuries long effort to drive out the Moors. A culture of forced conversion, slavery, or slaughter developed. While certain campaigns were genocidal in character, it inaccurate to classify the results as the greatest genocide in history. The Indians were often willing participants in warfare against hostile tribes and other European powers.

In the 18th century, much of Northeastern Pennsylvania was by treaty, Indian territory. Very few of the Indians were killed by whites. Attacks and oppression by the Iroquois, epidemics, and alcoholism decimated the Indians in a couple of decades.This was in spite of the efforts of the Moravian Missionaries to help them adapt to the New World.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 09:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by Manhandler12
 
It seems this thread has gone from posting information that is readily available at any public library if one cares or bothers to look. There is no conspiracy, no cover up, no avoiding the truth. It's just an attempt to point out known historical facts and to use it as a platform to spread their point of view under the guise of actually making some sort of point. Which it really doesn't.

Then they'll just accuse others who don't agree with their narrow and misleading views of being ignorant of the truth.

Thank you for acknowledging that this is simply "known historical facts" and "information that is readily available at any public library if one cares or bothers to look".

Then why do you believe in a conspiracy claiming "Then they'll just accuse others ..."



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 09:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by Leonidas
Europeans were in North America hundreds of years before America was formed in the late 18th Century. Yes, the Americans did continue to treat the Natives horribly, but the damage was pretty much done and finished by the 19th Century.



Save your breath.
I honestly don't think the OP cares for facts.
I've enjoyed this thread as an example of how to reduce a topic down to the ridiculous.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 09:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by UMayBRite!
 
The highest estimate in the Wikipedia source for the U.S. was 18 million. Plenty of settlers died from the epidemics that killed most of the Native Americans; the settlers just tended to have higher immunity. Only in a few cases was disease used as a deliberate weapon.

So how many people died in those 30 wars?
How many died from disease?



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 09:42 PM
link   
reply to post by Walkswithfist
 



Save your breath.
I honestly don't think the OP cares for facts.
I've enjoyed this thread as an example of how to reduce a topic down to the ridiculous.


Maybe you could help us all out and add some "real facts" instead of ad hominem. Just a thought.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 09:49 PM
link   

Originally posted by Walkswithfist
 
I honestly don't think the OP cares for facts.
I've enjoyed this thread as an example of how to reduce a topic down to the ridiculous.

Shoot the messenger when you're impotent to do better. You're insulting but not contributing a thing.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 09:56 PM
link   
reply to post by UMayBRite!
 



Attacks and oppression by the Iroquois, epidemics, and alcoholism decimated the Indians in a couple of decades.This was in spite of the efforts of the Moravian Missionaries to help them adapt to the New World.


Well there you go, I just learned something new. Thank you.


The Moravians pacifism placed them and their Native American converts in a difficult position during the violent second half of the 18th century. In 1781, David Zeisberger was taken to Detroit for questioning by the British. Although he was eventually released, the Indians he had converted and offered shelter at Gnaddenhuetten, Ohio, were murdered by members of the Pennsylvania militia in his absence.

www.history.com...

So it wasn't the evil Iroquois or an epidemic or alcohol that killed the Indian converts after all.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 10:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by Damian65
OP, you are welcome to your self loathing....that is fine.

The vast number of native Americans were killed by disease from just coming into contact with the Spaniards. When actual colonization began, the damage had already been done.

My father's side of the family got here in the 1600's from Germany and settled in Eastern PA before moving down into Virginia....sorry, I wasn't around then so I accept no blame.


Good point.

Will this self loathing lower the price of bread or my mortgage? How will this help my children find work or get a better education? Everything that I've read so far in this thread isn't anything new nor are there any Earth shattering details being revealed. I've read details now posted by the thread author on totally unrelated items to the threads original premise.

My family came to the this country through Ellis island in the 1920s. I've learned about the US expansion West and all the that transpired in classes on the topic in the public school system. I wonder if the threads author is aware of just how much of this is actually taught in our public schools?



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 10:21 PM
link   
reply to post by kenpos12
 



I've learned about the US expansion West and all the that transpired in classes on the topic in the public school system. I wonder if the threads author is aware of just how much of this is actually taught in our public schools?


Did they teach you in school that Thomas Jefferson suggested to William Henry Harrison that he should open a company store and get the local Indians hooked on credit so they'd end up having to exchange their land to pay off the debt?


"To promote this disposition to exchange lands, which they have to spare and we want, for necessaries, which we have to spare and they want, we shall push our trading uses, and be glad to see the good and influential individuals among them run in debt, because we observe that when these debts get beyond what the individuals can pay, they become willing to lop them off by a cession of lands."

www.digitalhistory.uh.edu...

It shouldn't be all that hard to see that they've done exactly the same thing to us. Doesn't matter if your family's been here since the Mayflower landed or if you got here yesterday. We're all Indians now, buddy.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 10:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by kenpos12
 
Will this self loathing lower the price of bread or my mortgage? How will this help my children find work or get a better education? Everything that I've read so far in this thread isn't anything new nor are there any Earth shattering details being revealed. I've read details now posted by the thread author on totally unrelated items to the threads original premise.

Will you only look at history if it lowers your mortgage?

National debt may not be directly related to the topic, but I posted in my OP that I am trying to learn from what some people refuse to call "genocide" for the future. Isn't that what your child's education is supposed to provide? Information we can use for a better future?

It is scary to see you stating that "in this thread isn't anything new nor are there any Earth shattering details", yet you deny the implication.



posted on Aug, 5 2013 @ 11:11 PM
link   


I remember many years ago, actor Marlon Brando refused to accept an Oscar award because of the plight of Native American Indians. He said America was "Turning a blind eye" to the situation that was still happening to these people. It looks like some still are.


An attention-seeking famous person. So what?

It seems all of you folks who blame America for all the world's problems seem to be "turning a blind eye" to the wrongs of other governments, or to the fact that its not all the citizens' fault what their government does.

Granted, most of us could care to pay more attention, but the same could be said for people of ALL countries. All people need to pay more attention, and a lot of them turn a blind eye. In every country. Not just here.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman
 





They are robbing us, you and me. They come to us, the people and say "We need a trillion dollars to bail-out the rich guys because if they lose a few cents on the dollar, the whole world will collapse."


My president and his buck-buddies are doing this. NOT us.

We are not "robbing you."

They treat us the very same way... we can barely afford to live anymore.

Pop the thumb out of your mouth.




Our kids or grandkids will have 2 choices: a) they will need to repay the humongous amounts of money somebody else had borrowed, or, b) they will need to suffer the consequences of not repaying it. Which political party or jokster in "Congress" will support either one of these options?


We're in the very same boat. And if you haven't noticed, Bilderberg meetings consist of leaders from all established countries. Our government isn't the only one calling the shots and screwing everyone's lives up.




Taking the land from the Natives was basically a massive redistribution of wealth. Whenever the government "redistributes" it grows in power, in particular the power to take back away from you what it has given you.


You're referring to Colonial America as though it was as prosperous and influencing as it is today. Those days were nothing but sects of groups skwabbling against one another, the French, Indians, British, and Colonial Americans... and for the record, not ALL the Colonials attempted to kill the Indians. Many Colonials made peace with the Indians, and planned to keep it that way... they were simply outnumbered by the violent ones, unfortunately. Why do you think so many of us have Indian blood in us? I have Blackfoot, Cherokee, AND Ipache Indian blood in me. And why's that? Because the Indians and the Colonials hated each other so much?

I'm not sticking up for all the Colonials, or the foundation of my country.

But the Colonials were not the big bad wolf. Every side has good and bad.

Pointing the finger is your first mistake, and it makes everything else in your argument invalid.

I wish this thread would die.



posted on Aug, 6 2013 @ 01:15 AM
link   

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX
 
My president and his buck-buddies are doing this. NOT us.
They treat us the very same way... we can barely afford to live anymore.
We're in the very same boat. And if you haven't noticed, Bilderberg meetings consist of leaders from all established countries. Our government isn't the only one calling the shots and screwing everyone's lives up.
Many Colonials made peace with the Indians, and planned to keep it that way...
Pointing the finger is your first mistake, and it makes everything else in your argument invalid.

You may be surprised but I actually agree with most of what you say. Granted in my OP I said "the worst", I should have said "One of the worst". And that is only the ones we know about. Out of the many people I have met, Americans are some of the most decent ones.

Why don't you do something about "my President and his buck-buddies" doing this, "robbing us, you and me"? Why do you let them "treat us the very same way... we can barely afford to live anymore"? (Notice, I am one of the 'you and me')

Don't you have the power to do something, given that we live in a democracy? Who do you think I point the finger at?



posted on Aug, 6 2013 @ 04:58 AM
link   


You are no doubt going to get inundated with pro-MURRCAN posts by the red necks who are "proud to be MURRCAN"!!!!! YEEEEEHAW!!!!





GO MURRCA!!!!! BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!!





"Iffn' euwww donn like it, then geeet out"!!!! [spits some chaw into the spittoon. then wipes mouth as he snorts real loud] Then Lee Greenwood slowly fades in "And I'm PRoud to be an A-MURRCan, where at least I know I'm safe....''



Making asinine quotes like this in defense of this absurd thread is where you claim that just because someone questions it is a "pro-MURRCAN". I simply stated that I was not. So show me where I said YOU claimed I was patriotic. Or show me where I said YOU said I should feel guilty or apologize.




Instead, you deny your heritage


Show me where I denied my heritage




spit on the graves


Do you have pics to prove this?

Anyone here can play this ignorant game of comment dissecting




A country full of weak minded, functionally retarded, parody of the movie 'Idiocracy'.


Please enlighten us on what peace loving, super intelligent hand holding country you hail from. After all, if you feel the need to hurl insults in every post, then you are obviously from higher stock with a pristine past right?



posted on Aug, 6 2013 @ 05:32 AM
link   
reply to post by ThinkingHuman
 




What do you want to call it then if not "genocide"? Give me another word for 30 wars the US government has fought against Native Americans.


I don't understand why you are trying to drag this out and play at semantics.

No-one has denied the Native Americans were treat badly - everything else is just smoke in mirrors.

Another word?
Try subjugation, suppression, removal, any of those will do.

You seem to be intent on implying that Americans wanted to literally wipe Native Americans off the face of the earth.
That's nonsense.
Sure, a few probably did.
Most didn't.

Many supported their forced removal from their ancestral homes.
Most were more or less apathetic because they were just struggling on trying to make the best of their own lives.

But arguing the toss over this won't make an ounce of difference to the current plight of Native Americans.

You've made your point, other people have made theirs - you'd be much better served actually doing something positive now.

It's quite noticeable that as usual you cherry pick my post to selectively highlight one minor point whilst revealingly choose not to reply to the other points I, and others, have raised.



11 of them lasted more than 10 years each, on average. Americans (not "Europeans") won every single one. Americans benefited from every single one - but somehow they manage to instill in your psyche that "we" were provoked by the bad enemy and had to "defend" ourselves. We are sorry but it wasn't really our fault. Brainwashing.


My psyche?
Which 'we' would that be?

Who has 'brainwashed' me?

And please show me where I said that Americans or anyone had to 'defend' themselves as a result of provocation?

It seems you really do like putting words in people's mouths and pigeon holing everyone in your efforts to continue the blame game.



I can also provide you a list of 100 massacres committed - by Americans - between 1810 and 1890, 80 years. Languages disappeared, cultures destroyed, populations decimated. Btw, How many of the victims were civilian? All?


What on earth are you on about?
No-one has denied massacres took place.
I've never mentioned anything about civilian casualties.

I'll repeat it, yet again because you seem incapable of comprehending; Yes, what happened to Native Americans was awful - but it was in no way unique - and that my friend is a sad reflection on mankind as a whole.

Now instead of dragging this thread around in circles what are YOU going to do that will improve the current plight of Native Americans because it seems to me all you're prepared to do is rattle on like some sort of evangelist preaching incessantly about the sins of the father, wallowing in self-hate and some kind of modern-day flagellation.



I understand that it comes as a shock to you.


You assume much - sadly nothing much is a shock to me nowadays - certainly nothing that has been discussed in this thread.



I empathize with you in that aspect.


Such blatant arrogance - and misguided at that.



But, think about it objectively.


I sincerely hope that if you take the time to re-read this thread you will be able to see the irony in that.



This is just a forum, it will not cause anybody to pay anything. And I am not about to argue if it was the worst, or the second worst.


Then why on earth are does it seem that every time it seems that some sort of general consensus is reached you succeed in dragging this thread back round in circles?



Now, give me your word.


Zzzzzz
edit on 6/8/13 by Freeborn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2013 @ 11:30 AM
link   

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX



I remember many years ago, actor Marlon Brando refused to accept an Oscar award because of the plight of Native American Indians. He said America was "Turning a blind eye" to the situation that was still happening to these people. It looks like some still are.


An attention-seeking famous person. So what?

It seems all of you folks who blame America for all the world's problems seem to be "turning a blind eye" to the wrongs of other governments, or to the fact that its not all the citizens' fault what their government does.

Granted, most of us could care to pay more attention, but the same could be said for people of ALL countries. All people need to pay more attention, and a lot of them turn a blind eye. In every country. Not just here.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman
 





They are robbing us, you and me. They come to us, the people and say "We need a trillion dollars to bail-out the rich guys because if they lose a few cents on the dollar, the whole world will collapse."


My president and his buck-buddies are doing this. NOT us.

We are not "robbing you."

They treat us the very same way... we can barely afford to live anymore.

Pop the thumb out of your mouth.




Our kids or grandkids will have 2 choices: a) they will need to repay the humongous amounts of money somebody else had borrowed, or, b) they will need to suffer the consequences of not repaying it. Which political party or jokster in "Congress" will support either one of these options?


We're in the very same boat. And if you haven't noticed, Bilderberg meetings consist of leaders from all established countries. Our government isn't the only one calling the shots and screwing everyone's lives up.




Taking the land from the Natives was basically a massive redistribution of wealth. Whenever the government "redistributes" it grows in power, in particular the power to take back away from you what it has given you.


You're referring to Colonial America as though it was as prosperous and influencing as it is today. Those days were nothing but sects of groups skwabbling against one another, the French, Indians, British, and Colonial Americans... and for the record, not ALL the Colonials attempted to kill the Indians. Many Colonials made peace with the Indians, and planned to keep it that way... they were simply outnumbered by the violent ones, unfortunately. Why do you think so many of us have Indian blood in us? I have Blackfoot, Cherokee, AND Ipache Indian blood in me. And why's that? Because the Indians and the Colonials hated each other so much?

I'm not sticking up for all the Colonials, or the foundation of my country.

But the Colonials were not the big bad wolf. Every side has good and bad.

Pointing the finger is your first mistake, and it makes everything else in your argument invalid.

I wish this thread would die.


I mostly enjoyed the heck out of that commentary. The good, the bad, and the ugly, that's who we were then and that's who we still are. Unfortunately, as you say, the bad and the ugly seem to be the determining factor in almost every case because the good won't lower themselves to the same tactics used by those others. Denying the earlier determining factors seems to be where we're stuck, and no we can't change them now, but we can try to understand them and learn from them because what we've been doing isn't working. Killing threads and avoiding talking about it won't change anything.

You're absolutely right that many other countries are living in leaky boats, but do you go work on someone else's boat when your own is sinking, or do you just go shoot more holes in theirs to make you feel like you still have some power over SOME thing? Our boat is sinking while we're raping the treasury (our children's future) for no good purpose. Native peoples had it way over us in that their life's overall goal was to protect the land for the next seven generations. Try that on for size.

Obama is only "guilty" because he's the face we can see, but he didn't shoot the holes in the bottom of our boat, the holes were already there. Unfortunately, like so many others before him, he and his ADVISORS are doing their best to keep anyone from plugging the holes or building a better boat. Its the system that's drowning us. But we LOVE our system. To death.




new topics

top topics



 
67
<< 27  28  29    31  32  33 >>

log in

join