Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

How Much Disclosure Is Enough?

page: 1
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 01:13 AM
link   
Actually, this precise subject has been covered before but today in my study time I realized there are multiple components that may not have been explored very well. Of course, the core theme of disclosure involves not just the overwhelming number of scientists, generals, admirals, politicians, and respected public figures coming forward and saying, “Hey, this stuff is real!” We are all aware of the unavoidable consequential inquisitions: who knows what and how long have they known it? Have abductions been sanctioned? Have we really been flying blind, so to speak, by refusing to inform world leaders and even the president? This is only the tip of the iceberg of questions, all are valid, and discussion is always appreciated.

However, the first consideration, IMHO is do we not have enough whistle blowers and credible individuals as listed above on record to already state that disclosure has been leaked, maybe even on a pre-planned schedule already? Do we really need the proverbial landing on the white house lawn or atop Buckingham Palace to establish facts as facts? Too many powerful individuals with impeccable credentials have already sounded the alarm and I think we do a great disservice to many who have risked their lives and careers to come forward as they have.

But it is the following part of the equation that came bouncing into my pea-picking noggin’ this afternoon. If the world government, the UN, the Vatican, the US president or some parallel level faction or organization were to come forward with the irrefutable truth that aliens are real, have been here for days or millennia, world leaders agreed to abductions for whatever reason, etc, then wouldn’t these same leaders have to answer even more pressing questions? What do they know, and how long have they had knowledge of everything else in the supernatural universe? Are there other dimensions, do they have information about ghosts, God, ESP, time travel, and more? Who is and who isn’t telling the truth about remote viewing during peace and war times? Who knows and who just think they know? Is there a supreme group or council (Majestic 12-like) who has been endowed to make the decisions what is disseminated and what isn’t? Is it the Catholic church? Is the pope an alien? The antichrist? Does Obama have a love child living on Mars (an example of how ludicrous the speculation could become)?

I see a benefit/disadvantage, or what psychologists call a double bind here. It used to be known as a “no-win” situation, and I am concerned this may be the case. If disclosure was made to the satisfaction of the vast majority of believers and non –believers, doesn’t that only exacerbate the lack of trust in world government? Certainly they could parlay the situation into gain by new approaches on disinformation or controlled information, or they could suffer utter discredit to their positions both public and private. I hope I’m not sowing seeds of fear into those who hold such information. They probably already have recognized they can’t win regardless which direction they take, so I would urge them that the right path would be to “err”, if they are guaranteed to be making a mistake either way, on the side of the good guys and tell us the truth. Give us the chance to make our own decisions about our faith and world-view, but at least grant us that dignity. Someone, somewhere gave them the same consideration or they wouldn’t know what they know. But they survived and so will we with that knowledge.

Finishing up, is there really such a thing as being a little bit pregnant? Can only the horse’s head get out of the barn? Or would they prefer to come out with their rear ends first, and what would that make them? If we know a little, we know a lot. Confirm it or not, are the additional considerations regarding past government sanctioned ops and even atrocities enough to keep us in the dark forever? I say no. It most likely wasn’t the current torch bearers who began this path, and they should have more respect for those of us who want to respect them in return as opposed to someone before who greedily hoarded the details to themselves.

Any thoughts?




posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 01:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by samstone11
If the world government, the UN, the Vatican, the US president or some parallel level faction or organization were to come forward with the irrefutable truth that aliens are real...



No.
Anybody would do.
Anybody at all, that had irrefutable truth that aliens are real.

You mentioned that there are a huge number of "whistleblowers" that have come forward with messages of disclosure. But thats all they are. Messages. Anecdotes. Stories. Tales. Accounts.

We dont actually need any more "disclosure" of that kind. There's plenty already.

What is needed is some kind of evidence.
(and I dont mean youtube videos of unidentifiable white "orbs")



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 01:25 AM
link   
There is a HUGE difference between

1) Announcement that ETs exist
2) Announce that ETs have visited our planet
and
3) Announcement that there is an existing relationship between ETs and our government.


Those are all three VERY different grades of disclosure.


All three of those would have different levels of reactions by the public.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 01:42 AM
link   
I very quickly see I did a terrible job of asking my intended question. Already I have been brought to task by the few responses, and rightfully so-- all of which I completely agree with. My question should have simply been along the lines of:

If we were presented with absolute proof of disclosure by a sufficient authoritative body/individual, would that open them up to such intense scrutiny on other paranormal/unusual/abnormal subjects that this alone could prevent them from stepping forward?

Please continue to pound away at my earlier inadequate post as well, however, because obviously I still have much to learn.

Thanks.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 01:53 AM
link   
Personally, I'd prefer ET sitting in our coffee shops, browsing through the market, walking the streets, all out in the open.

Anyone telling us that ET exists, well, without ET there to sit down and have a cup of tea with, well, we've been being told that ETs exist by nut jobs and charlatans for decades.

Someone convinced world leaders that Iraq was buying centrifuge equipment to refine weapons grade plutonium or some such, as well as sundry other reasons, all LIES, which precipitated an invasion.
I'm sorry, but, people telling people that ET exists without ET sitting there to say "hello" and verify the claim gets me looking at people sideways.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 02:02 AM
link   
The stage is set for the likes of Kaku and Hawking to just show up and make a formal request, while dropping a few bombs of their own, which they certainly have. IF that happens, we will see the beginnings of the end to the largest conspiracy ever on this planet to keep the truth from its public. Saying that, the "truth" may not be what most would expect.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 02:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by charlyv
The stage is set for the likes of Kaku and Hawking to just show up and make a formal request, while dropping a few bombs of their own, which they certainly have. IF that happens, we will see the beginnings of the end to the largest conspiracy ever on this planet to keep the truth from its public. Saying that,the "truth" may not be what most would expect.


You mean house cats have been aliens this WHOLE time?



edit on 1-8-2013 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 02:22 AM
link   
Personally, you are far better off coming clean to me that you lied as soon as possible, no matter what the lie is, than to have me find out on my own.

At least if you have the balls to come clean and admit you lied it shows you have a shred of decency. On the other hand, if you continue to hide it and I find out the truth on my own, that's not going to be good at all. I cannot stand liars!

Alien life, cooperation, other dimensions etc are all something that BELONGS to the rest of us too. What kind of fool takes it upon himself to declare that everyone else can't handle the truth?
Sure, there would probably be pockets of chaos in some places but mankind is good at adapting quickly.

I think it would be best for everyone to learn about all this stuff at the same time as apposed to a select few having this knowledge for decades on end, then all of a sudden one day the rest of us become privy to this information and are lagging behind and facing a steep learning curve.

Anyway, to answer your question: How much disclosure is enough? ALL OF IT and nothing less!
The vast majority of people who decided at first to keep this all secret are dead and gone and cannot be held accountable, so place all the blame on them and tell us everything then deal with whatever happens next.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 02:30 AM
link   
The really scary part of all this is that there may not be any conspiracy, no cover-up, and nothing to disclose.
Why is this scary? Because then you have to consider a whole lot of UFO sightings, especially over the last
60 years or so {mostly after we set off the first atomic bombs} of apparently intelligently guide craft and no
knowledge of who or what is controlling these craft - and if they are controlled by beings not of this planet, no
knowledge of what they may want. I think people like government conspiracy theory on UFOs as the alternative
is even more disconcerting.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 02:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by AlienView
The really scary part of all this is that there may not be any conspiracy, no cover-up, and nothing to disclose.
Why is this scary? Because then you have to consider a whole lot of UFO sightings, especially over the last
60 years or so {mostly after we set off the first atomic bombs} of apparently intelligently guide craft and no
knowledge of who or what is controlling these craft - and if they are controlled by beings not of this planet, no
knowledge of what they may want. I think people like government conspiracy theory on UFOs as the alternative
is even more disconcerting.


I'm personally convinced that such you've outlined is closer to the truth; that there is NO conspiracy, and that no one actually knows what the UFO phenomenon is, and that the separate subject of aliens is simply a psycho-social byproduct of the mythology that's grown up and even been purposely perpetuated along side the UFO phenomenon.

None of this is to say that the UFO phenomenon, whatever it might be, doesn't exist. It's just that the UFO phenomenon may in fact still just be unknown.

For many, this is SO UNACCEPTABLE they've convinced themselves of fantastic fictions being more real than the mysterious unknown actuality of an unknown phenomenon that may very well have absolutely nothing to do with any kind of intelligent agency at all.
Such is akin to the primitive mind set that the sun and moon rising and setting as well as other natural phenomenon were the result of or agency of anthopomorphic super people being gods.
It's more difficult to accept an unknown as simply being natural phenomenon than it is to imagine it the result of some personified agency at work.

edit on 1-8-2013 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 02:42 AM
link   
Well maybe the "government" has already come to a point where they do not need to disclose anything. Given many 1,000s of sightings world wide and the likes, their disclosure plan was that the people will figure it out on their own without them needing to intervene.


You could also think of it this way, if you were a species that was capable of interstellar travel, why would you need approval from the local government to reveal that you are here? Who could stop you? Maybe if there was some "law" or guideline that as an exploratory ship or what have you, you could not reveal yourself to the natives, but that would be about it I would think.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 02:45 AM
link   
reply to post by Druscilla
 


Agree with this 100% What people don't seem to consider is that there is so much we have no clue about already in the universe. Who is to say that anyone knows anything about ETs and their comings and goings from our planet if any.
edit on 8/1/1313 by GR1ill3d because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 03:27 AM
link   
I think the trouble is that our whole science is built on what we have discovered over the last x years. Can you imagine the fabric of society being tossed to the wind and all theories, rules, religions, beliefs being thrown up in the air. This subject is so fundemental to our understanding of the way the universe and country works that, if we were to suddenly realise that it did not work that way and our governments had been telling us porkies for decades, we would probably fall apart. That is what the government have been told would happen anyway.

I have a feeling that the way to do it (and the way it may be being done) is slowly by 'discovering' that there used to be water on Mars(done), that microbes exist on Mars/Moon, that plants exist on Mars/Moon, then that aliens exist on Mars/Moon/Universe. Yes, the momentum would build but people would not think of all the questions to ask at once and they would have a little more time to get used to the idea.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 03:44 AM
link   
reply to post by samstone11
 


Complete and full disclosure of everything learned by clandestine organisations thus far, the good the bad and the ugly, nothing more, nothing less.

This subject, if verified, would be of paramount importance to, and completely within the interests of every Human being alive today and of those yet to be born.

The implications and ramifications of full and complete disclosure will be an event like no other in our recorded history, yet, it will not be the dystopian vision often touted as a primary reason to keep this subject under wraps.

We are more 'cosmopolitan' as a species today.

We appreciate that technological marvels are just that..technological, not an etheric super power or a superstition based magical ability.

We finally realise, at least the majority of Humanity does at any rate, that 'god-like powers and technological abilities' do not make a god or gods, but make for a highly technological civilisation capable of wonderous things.

Only 100 years or so ago, we would still have attributed such talents as coming from supreme beings, or gods...not so today.

Yes, a portion of Humanity do still cling to such superstitions regarding these things, but the majority of our species would undoubtably realise that just like our own rapid technological advances in recent decades, feats demonstrated by unknown vehicles operating in our vicinity, witnessed and recorded by people while showing 'impossible or almost magical abilities' are akin to some of our own technologies and the effects it would have on more primitive peoples in some parts of the world even today.

Take a common or garden TV remote control for example..it is a small, rectangular handheld device that can operate and control another device, a TV set, 'magically' without a physical connection directly through the thin air at a distance.

How would such simple technology have been perceived by our recent ancestors only a few centuries ago?

The work of Satan / the Devil?

An elaborate hoax on the public by fraudsters?

Magic?

Maybe all three and more would have been the suspicion. But of course, today we know and understand the device for what it is..simple technology, no fairy dust or magic or gods required.

The same is true of 'foreign' technology operated and used by those beings who would formally have been described as gods, angels or demons by people with little or zero understanding of the technology being witnessed.

The time is now right for complete disclosure. We are sophisticated such that we can both handle and appreciate the truth. We have a fundamental right to know warts and all.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 06:05 AM
link   
reply to post by samstone11
 


Well, my veiw is that we havent actually had ANY yet, despite the gum flapping of former political and military officials. They count for absolutely nothing, because they are no more than claims, supported by no physical evidence what so ever.

Until the public are given access, not only to records and documentation, testimony from previously silent players in the whole subject, but also to the physical remains of crashed craft, intact and reverse engineered equipment and craft, any physical evidence which exists of alien interaction with our planets atmosphere, let alone our people, then there will not be a disclosure.

Until everything that ANYONE knows about this subject, is known to all mankind, the entire point will be moot and useless in the extreme. The research labs and secret locations must be opened up to civilian monitoring and involvement, the study of the phenomenon de-classified both retro-actively, and for all time, all findings by those labs bought to the attention of anyone who would wish to know of them, all studies and projects published to the web, all personel named and all operations detailed, without failiure, exception, or accidental oversight.

THIS would be disclosure of worth, and anything, everything else is pointless.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 06:20 AM
link   
Until aliens make themselves known to humans, essencially it will always been a conspiracy theory and nothing more. A lot of people have seen ghosts, fairys, mermaids, lockness, bigfoot, should we say they are all 100% true too? Many of them might be true. But until they're so apparent that we can document them as good as various animal species and are able to follow them and find them on a regular basis, then it's impossible to just say based on a few witnesses testimony that they are real. And that Disclosure movment in washington is just a money making scheme so please don't buy into that as if that's some kind of difinitive answer. it's not. The guy set it up to make money off it just like any other regular business idea. No different than what David Ick does, or Alex Jones does, or any other Conspiracy theorist trying to do some event to make money. How? Well, books, movies, interviews, speaking tours, charging people to show up, and a million other ways.




posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 06:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by samstone11
I very quickly see I did a terrible job of asking my intended question. Already I have been brought to task by the few responses, and rightfully so-- all of which I completely agree with. My question should have simply been along the lines of:

If we were presented with absolute proof of disclosure by a sufficient authoritative body/individual, would that open them up to such intense scrutiny on other paranormal/unusual/abnormal subjects that this alone could prevent them from stepping forward?

Please continue to pound away at my earlier inadequate post as well, however, because obviously I still have much to learn.

Thanks.


But this assumption and question stems from the fact that you already believe in the existence and presence of extraterrestrials visiting this planet. Therefore you conclude that those "in authority" are simply withholding truth from you. But try taking a step back and see where your belief possibly blinds you - you don't even question the validity of the signs and wonders that these witnesses are reporting. Occultic literature is replete with the belief that men who are made gods will sit in some sort of divine council to lead humanity. This meme is throughout the new age movement. In which case, how do they convince the masses to accept such a thing? Indoctrination and propaganda - give everyone the "evil and bad leaders" who are peeving everyone off these days. They have already convinced you that these people are withholding knowledge from you. Isn't it a matter of swaying your opinion and beliefs against a set up bad guy in order for your mind to accept what they already write about? Out of chaos comes order....their order which is accomplished through them. They have already placed your hopes in some extraterrestrials that will come to save you from these "bad men". But you forget that these "bad men" are placed into the leadership roles - by them. It's merely good cop/bad cop which keeps your attention away from critically analysing the bottom tier of evidence - those lights in the sky are seen as ETs because it's their media which has put your hopes and dreams and beliefs in the existence of ETs in the first place. Three hundred years ago the lights in the sky, the abducted babies and visits were called fairies.

Wicked men WILL wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. Thinking that they are withholding knowledge from you is key. Deceivers deceive. You can't imagine that those leaders who you think are withholding information from you are but deceivers themselves. They need you to reject them in order to accept the ends which their means are accomplishing - and it appears that you will. Question why it is a concerted effort has been made to get you to believe and hope in ETs ever since mass media commenced. Why are hundreds of millions now convinced that mankinds' saviour is now an extraterrestrial? What purpose does it serve?



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 08:25 AM
link   
reply to post by samstone11
 



...If we were presented with absolute proof of disclosure by a sufficient authoritative body/individual, would that open them up to such intense scrutiny on other paranormal/unusual/abnormal subjects that this alone could prevent them from stepping forward?


Yes. Although I might modify your inquiry thus:

If we were presented with absolute proof of disclosure by a sufficient authoritative body/individual, would that open them up to such intense scrutiny on this subject alone that it could prevent them from stepping forward?

In fact, I believe this may ALREADY be the case...

The other fear that may prevent disclosure:




posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 03:55 PM
link   
reply to post by samstone11
 


Anything shy of showing us a physical ship and physical EBE specimen, just isn't going to cut it...

I mean, there's a lot of evidence, some good, most bad...but these things would be requirements to PROVE it.

Assuming there is something to disclose, the important thing really becomes WHY is it a secret in the first place? What's the alien agenda? And why is their secrecy necessary? Is that our desire, or theirs?

In my experience, the only reason to keep a secret is that you know people aren't going to like the reality....



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 04:50 PM
link   
Government coverup = Convenient way for believers to excuse the reason behind no tangible evidence in the 65+ year popularity of UFO/alien phenomenon. "Government has it all, that's why no one can prove it"





new topics

top topics



 
2
<<   2 >>

log in

join