It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

'Jesus was Caesar': New book by Philosopher and Linguist Francesco Carotta

page: 1
13
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 31 2013 @ 11:36 PM
link   
I have never heard of this concept before and ATS threads in the past have only mentioned Jesus as the son of Caesar.

The book is written by Francesco Carotta wikipedia



Francesco Carotta (b. 1946 in Veneto, Italy)[1] is an independent Italian ancient historian and religious historian. He is mainly known for his theory that statesman Gaius Julius Caesar was the historical Jesus, that the Gospel is a rewriting of Roman historical sources, and that Christianity developed from the cult of the deified Caesar. Carotta's work is generally ignored in academic circles.[2]


Of course he is rejected by 'academics' which doesn't impress me much. However, I have yet to do research in this area. Hoping you guys will help me out.

I have read of Jesus being royal, as in part of Herod's family, of him being of celtic origin and even the son of a roman soldier, and that the gospesl were written by a roman family, but this is entirely new to me.

Just a few of the claims in this article pr newswire Please go to the link for more.


- Both Caesar and Jesus start their rising careers in neighboring states in the north: Gallia and Galilee. - Both have to cross a fateful river: the Rubicon and the Jordan.

Once across the rivers, they both come across a patron/rival: Pompeius and John the Baptist, and their first followers: Antonius and Curio on the one hand and Peter and Andrew on the other.

- Both are continually on the move, finally arriving at the capital, Rome and Jerusalem, where they at first triumph, yet subsequently undergo their passion.

- Both have good relationships with women and have a special relationship with one particular woman, Caesar with Cleopatra and Jesus with Magdalene.

- Both have encounters at night, Caesar with Nicomedes of Bithynia, Jesus with Nicodemus of Bethany.




posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 12:13 AM
link   
From the link above

Both die on the same respective dates of the year: Caesar on the Ides (15 th) of March, Jesus on the 15 th of Nisan.


So I don't know much about the jewish calendar so from this link

The Jewish calendar is primarily lunar, with each month beginning on the new moon, when the first sliver of moon becomes visible after the dark of the moon. In ancient times, the new months used to be determined by observation. When people observed the new moon, they would notify the Sanhedrin. When the Sanhedrin heard testimony from two independent, reliable eyewitnesses that the new moon occurred on a certain date, they would declare the rosh chodesh (first of the month) and send out messengers to tell people when the month began.

The problem with strictly lunar calendars is that there are approximately 12.4 lunar months in every solar year, so a 12-month lunar calendar loses about 11 days every year and a 13-month lunar gains about 19 days every year. The months on such a calendar "drift" relative to the solar year. On a 12 month calendar, the month of Nissan, which is supposed to occur in the Spring, occurs 11 days earlier each year, eventually occurring in the Winter, the Fall, the Summer, and then the Spring again. To compensate for this drift, an extra month was occasionally added: a second month of Adar. The month of Nissan would occur 11 days earlier for two or three years, and then would jump forward 29 or 30 days, balancing out the drift.


Have no clue what it was or how it relates to the year Caesar and Jesus died.

Need sleep now. Hope some knowledgeable and objective ATS folks will respond
edit on 1-8-2013 by liveandlearn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 12:32 AM
link   
Didn't you hear the good news?
Jesus is God in the flesh, and he's alive.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 12:55 AM
link   
reply to post by liveandlearn
 


I have heard about this several times Jesus was son of Caesar and Cleopatra, Caesar being god incarnate thus his child is the son of a (living) god. There was actually something a bit more recent than this. I think they claim it is Julius's son Cesarian..though
Link
There are also a couple threads on it.
edit on 1-8-2013 by ParanoidAmerican because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-8-2013 by ParanoidAmerican because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-8-2013 by ParanoidAmerican because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 01:16 AM
link   
Well since the story of jesus was just a rehash of the story of many other deities that predate the gospels I will have to say no.

I want add that I believe the roman empire did make up his deeds by taling bits and pieces of stories and dreeds from other religion, most coming from conquered peoples they wished to control by giving them one god to worship.
edit on 1-8-2013 by Jahari because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 01:27 AM
link   
I simply can't see it.

Unless this is some airy faery connection such as both historical characters having similar story beats, there is too much about it that does't make sense. The story would be far too similar to false prophets of the time in the first place such as various failed Jewish Messiahs who were executed by the Romans around the time. There was multiple Jewish figures who rebelled against the people.

The other major issue is historians such as Tacitus don't make any mention of this, and Caesar being a public figure had more historical sources than most people of this time.

I had a quick glance and it seems to be imply that the story has Julian / Roman sources and not saying that the two people are the same. Even this though is quite a big leap, especially since the changes to the Roman Empire don't come till hundreds of years later. Jesus's main concerns are economic and particularly Jewish in context in his parables. This leaves a chasm of logic as to why a writer would align Caesar with primarily Jewish economic concerns when Caesar and the Messiah movement when that movement was specifically a criticism of Rome and part of the unrest of rebellion that Caesar sought to quell.

The idea that Paul was a Roman and the Christian movement was hijacked is a little more compelling than the concept that the New Testament was specifically about or based upon Caesar since the early gospels didn't really align with the ideals of Roman virtues.

As far as the narrative structure of the gospels, it's a very common one and could apply to many heroic or holy stories ... most of the similarities appear to be in line with 'good' or common story structure than in line with a connection.

Just my two dollars fifty.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 01:31 AM
link   



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 01:32 AM
link   
The proof that the Piso's were involved in either providing a source or writing the gospels is overwhelming in my opinion. The most likely culprit being Pliny the younger. JC's wife was Calpurius and she was a Piso. The whole cricifiction for instance and the characters involved can be traced back to the cult of Caesar. Just do some research.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 01:51 AM
link   
For instance

After some time after the death of Caesar, in the sky of Rome a comet appeared and was clearly visible (every day and for seven days, starting one hour before the sunset). This comet appeared for the first time during the ritual games in front of the Temple of Venus Genetrix (Venus was the supposed ancestor of the Julii family) in the Forum of Julius Caesar and everyone in Rome thought it was the soul of Caesar deified called among the other gods. After the appearance of that sign Augustus delivered a public speech giving an explanation of the appearance of the comet. The speech is partially known since we have a partial transcription of it by Pliny the Elder. After the public speech Augustus wanted a few series of coins devoted to the comet star and to the deified Caesar ("Divus Iulius") to be struck and widely distributed. So we can have an idea about the type of representation of the comet star of the deified Julius Caesar.

Augustus loved to be considered the real subject of any kind of Messianic prophecies and accounts. So during the public speech about the appearance of the comet, he specified that he, the new ruler of the world, was born (politically) at the very appearance of his father Julius Caesar as a comet in the sky of Rome and his father was announcing his own (political) birth. So he was the one who had to be born under the comet and whom the appearance of the comet was announcing.

Other messianic prophecies about Augustus are told Suetonius, including the story of the massacre of the innocents conceived in order to kill the young Octavius soon after his own birth. At some time during his princedom, Augustus ordered that all the books of prophecies and Messianic accounts had to be gathered and utterly destroyed. The temple therefore ended up to represent both Julius Caesar as a deified being and Augustus himself as the newborn under the comet and the comet star itself was object of public worship.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 08:49 AM
link   
For instance

Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary [the wife] of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. Gospel of Luke.
In chapter 24 of the gospel of Luke, there is an account of Jesus appearing to two people walking on the road to Emmaus after His resurrection. Luke 24:18 identifies one of the persons as "Cleopas" who is believed to be Mary's husband. Some biblical scholars speculate the other person with Cleopas on the road was his wife, Mary.
MARY CLEOPAS- CLEOPATRA
MARY MAGDALENE-
Mary Magdalene (original Greek Μαρία ἡ Μαγδαληνή),[2] or Mary of Magdala and sometimes The Magdalene, is a religious figure in Christianity. She has been called the second-most important woman in the New Testament after Mary the mother of Jesus.[3]
Magdala (Aramaic: מגדלא / Magdala, meaning "elegant", "great", or "tower" (viz. "great place"); Hebrew: מגדל / Migdal, meaning "
Cleopatra of Alexander was a Piso family member
The romans referred to her as the harlot
Cleopatra VII Philopator (Greek: Κλεοπάτρα Φιλοπάτωρ; Late 69 BC[1] – August 12, 30 BC), known to history as Cleopatra,[2][3] was the last pharaoh of Ancient Egypt. She was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, a family of Greek[4][5][6][7][8][9] origin that ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great's death during the Hellenistic period.

Tower of Alexandria
Cleopatra of the Magdala=Mary of the Tower.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 11:30 AM
link   
reply to post by spannera
 


Spannera, nice to see you again. Your input, as usual is quite "eye" opening.



Just do some research.
Easier said than done, in my opinion. The ones who might be capable of this most likely are already controlled by the very same "Illusion" you are exposing. They are incapable of looking further or deeper into this area, and in my opinion the reason is fear.

I have suspected for sometime that "JC" was being used for "Other" proposes. Lets just call it a gut feeling and not due to "Research" as one would recognize it. During that period of my life, there was no "Research" that was publicly available.

There are too many similarities between the two stories to just put it on the back burner of research. For instance:

After some time after the death of Caesar, in the sky of Rome a comet appeared and was clearly visible (every day and for seven days, starting one hour before the sunset).
This could very well be the "eastern star" the 3 wise men followed.

I am struck with the overwhelming feeling that the real events of that day were turned into a story line and a script for a "book" where great "Artistic license" was used. But discovering this is not the real problem.

Okay, so we all wake up one day to find out we were all living a fictitious lie told to control the masses. People will stop and look at each other wondering what they will do now. Who shall they follow? What shall they identify with? To me, they only have two choices, the animal kingdom, or the spiritual kingdom.

Certainly, no one can argue that religions are some of the most controlling mindsets ever devised, behind electronic control "Media, Movies". But when you release mankind from this bondage, where will it go, what will it do?

The power within humanity is not individual in nature, it takes a society to go to the moon. If we do not have something to unite with we become de-powered and defenseless, as individuals. We would simply be prey to be conquered by anyone or anything. At the very least, religion gave us warnings of such adversarial powers.

So, yes, the whole "JC" story is just that, a story. Where will that leave humanity?



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 11:33 AM
link   
Hi all seeing eye or as i prefer lol the eye of the ptolemiac pharoah.

Who could cover up such a ridiculous story


The illuminate pehaps
Saturnalian Brotherhood - The Real 13 Zoroastrian Bloodlines of the Illuminati

House of Borja
House of Breakspeare
House of Somaglia
House of Orsini
House of Conti
House of Chigi
House of Colonna
House of Farnese
House of Medici
House of Gaetani
House of Pamphili
House of Este
House of Aldobrandini
The Orsini family was one of the most celebrated princely families in medieval Italy and renaissance Rome. Members of the Orsini include popes Celestine III (1191-1198), Nicholas III (1277-1280), and Benedict XIII (1724-1730), numerous condottieri and other relevant political and religious figures.

Origins

According to their family lore, the Orsini are descended from the Julio-Claudian family of ancient Rome. This is fanciful, as well as the alleged connection to the German families of Anhalt, Baden and Rosenberg sporting the same name. The Orsini also carried on a political feud with the Colonna family until by Papal Bull it was stopped in 1511; in 1571 the Chiefs of both families married the nieces of Pope Sixtus V.

The Orsini were related to the Boboni family existing in Rome in the 11th century. The first members had in fact always doubled surname of Boboni-Orsini. This first known members is one Bobone, in the early 11th century, father of Pietro, in turn father of Giacinto dei Boboni (1110-1198), who in 1191 became pope as Celestine III. One of the first great nepotist popes, he created cardinals two of his nephews and allowed his cousin Giovanni Gaetano (Giangaetano, died 1232) to buy the fiefs of Vicovaro, Licenza, Roccagiovine and Nettuno, who formed the nucleus of the future territorial power of the family.
The plot thickens lol



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 11:42 AM
link   
simply put:

Saul David Jesus the good guys,,if u will.

Then we have:


Cyrus
I am Cyrus, king of the world, great king, mighty king, king of Babylon, king of Sumer ... was the first Zoroastrian Shāhanshāh (Persian: "King of Kings", Emperor). "

****side note***
this is From whom we get,, "The Kings Peace",,(later past too English Kings/French Kings/Russian/German,,,etc,,,)

Cyrus

Alexander

Constatine,,

,Where he defeats the Roman Army,, once and for all time,,the OLD Roman gods,,at the Battle of the Bridge.are defeated.

And now this Generation apparently awaits, a King or Messiah of some sort once again.

Along the Calibre of the "Above Mentioned".
no others need apply.



edit on 1-8-2013 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 11:58 AM
link   
reply to post by BobAthome
 

Yep. The plebs are revolting /against there betters. Either its the pope ruling by divine decree or the aristocrats. Well the slaves will believe anything.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 12:06 PM
link   
People are running out of ideas about Jesus, so they just start coming up with anything they can, write a book, get press, make $$$.

Jesus is now Caesar's son, an alien, lizard, God himself, an illusion, a woman, a magician, a made up story, a trickster, what else can they come up with????

Has anyone said he was a time traveler from the future from the 70's, psychedelic hippy from san fran? That could possibly make some dough



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 12:36 PM
link   
This isn't a new book (maybe it's a new edition,) he wrote up this nonsense ten years ago. It's typical of the "let's use some vague similarities and ignore massive contradictions to claim that some historical fact is not true." The reason that this guy is ignored by scholars is because he's so egregiously wrong that even addressing his claims is granting him credibility that he does not deserve.

Someone mentioned the "Roman Piso Theory", which has been long since debunked -- a Jewish anti-Christian with the pen name "Abelard Reuchelin" made it up in the 1970s and it's still promoted on websites by people who don't understand that historical research is an actual academic field with standards, methodologies and a reasonable expectation that theory should have some shred of evidence behind it, which the Piso thing does not.

The person of Jesus Christ is best documented in the only texts written about him by people who were contemporaneous to him -- the New Testament of the Christian Bible. If one doesn't like the Christ who is presented in that work, then they should find someone else to follow, rather than inventing an "alternative Jesus" who better fits their expectations, but who cannot possibly have existed.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 12:45 PM
link   
reply to post by adjensen
 

Please provide some facts and not assumptions so i can dispute them. I may be wrong but please provide rebuttals. Do you honestly not undestand that these historical figures such as Caesar, Alexander, the Pharaohs were not widely worshiped as gods in the same as our popes are today. They literally died for them. These people are all related.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 12:59 PM
link   
reply to post by spannera
 



Hi all seeing eye or as i prefer lol the eye of the ptolemiac pharoah.
Well, that is quite confusing, seeing how the family tree continues to grow from within itself.
At least now I know "Cleopatra" was not so much a name as it was a position.

All the male rulers of the dynasty took the name Ptolemy. Ptolemaic queens, some of whom were the sisters of their husbands, were usually called Cleopatra, Arsinoe or Berenice.
en.wikipedia.org... Check out the family chart. Reminds me of another "bloodline" today, known by another 3 letter name. Are they related?


Who could cover up such a ridiculous story
Who had the most to gain? " ridiculous story "? Maybe that in itself is a clue.

I don't think human beings are prone to create "ridiculous stories", they may only be repeating what they have been told, or have seen. Logic, in my humble opinion, is the basis of our existence. Everything is hinged to it.

I'm guessing, the real genesis of the "Coverup" lays in a area that has yet to see the light of day. "Human beings' have no real, logical basis to cover up anything, in fact I believe the opposite to be true.

Please continue



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 01:24 PM
link   
The Battle of Zela (a Zoroatrian temple site destroyed) was a battle fought in 47 BC between Julius Caesar and Pharnaces II of The Kingdom of Pontus a Piso.

Barabbas or Jesus Barabbas (literally "son of the father" or "Jesus, son of the father" respectively) is a figure in the account of the Passion of Christ, in which he is the insurrectionary whom Pontius Pilate freed at the Passover feast in Jerusalem, instead of Jesus Christ.
The penalty for Barabbas' crime was death by crucifixion,

The

HE ORATION OF M. T. CICERO AGAINST LUCIUS CALPURNIUS PISO.
THE ARGUMENT.
After the decision which the senate came to in consequence of Cicero’s speech on the subject of the consular provinces, Piso returned home from Macedonia, being the first senator of consular rank who had ever had that province, and had returned from it without a triumph. On the contrary, he had lost most of his troops in engagements with the barbarians on the frontiers. When he arrived in Rome, he stripped his forces of their laurels, and entered the city as obscurely and quietly as he could. But on his first appearance in the senate, relying on the influence of Cæsar, who was his son-in-law, he attacked Cicero violently, complaining that he had treated him ill in his absence, especially in promoting the measure which deprived him of his province. And among other topics he reproached him with having been banished; on which the whole senate interrupted him with violent indignation. He reproached him also with his bad verses, and with his vanity in praising himself in them.
Cicero was exasperated by this attack to break out with the following invective against him by way of reply, of which a good deal of the beginning is lost, and one or two other portions are in a very corrupt or doubtful state.
NA* * * * What specimen, even the slightest, have you ever given of ability? Of ability, do I say? Rather should I say, what proof have you ever given of being an honourable or a free man? You, who by your complexion seem to throw a doubt on your country, by your speech on your family, by your morals on your name NA*

Rabirius, Gaius was a senator involved in the death of Lucius Appuleius Saturninus. Titus Labienus (whose uncle had lost his life among the followers of Saturninus on that occasion) at Julius Caesar’s instigation, accused Rabirius of having been implicated in the murder. The obsolete accusation of perduellio was revived, and the case was heard before Caesar and his cousin Lucius Julius Caesar as commissioners specially appointed (duoviri perduellionis). Rabirius was condemned, and the people, to whom the accused had exercised the right of appeal, were on the point of ratifying the decision, when Quintus Caecilius Metellus Celer pulled down the military flag from the Janiculum, which was equivalent to the dissolution of the assembly. Caesar’s objective having been achieved the matter was allowed to drop. The defense was taken by Marcus Tullius Cicero, consul at the time; the speech is extant: Pro Rabirio reo perduellionis.

Rabirius Postumus, Gaius, was defended by Cicero (in 54BC, in the extant speech Pro Rabirio Postumo) when charged with extortion in Egypt and complicity with Aulus Gabinius. Rabirius was a member of the equites order who lent a large sum of money to PtolemyAuletes (Ptolemy XII), king of Egypt, who refused to pay and had Rabirius imprisoned. When Auletes threatened Rabirius’ life, the latter escaped to Rome, where he was accused by the Senate. He was defended by Cicero and acquitted.
BookFiveXVI Claudius mentioned his case as an example, fallaciously since Rabirius was acquitted.



posted on Aug, 1 2013 @ 01:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by spannera
reply to post by adjensen
 

Please provide some facts and not assumptions so i can dispute them.

Facts about what? A dimwitted theory that says because "Jesus Christ" and "Julius Caesar" both have the initials "JC", they must be the same person? Are we to believe that the Romans and Jews spoke English, or that "Christ" was Jesus' last name?

When I see reasonable evidence, I'll look at it, but opinion and supposition is not evidence of anything.



new topics

top topics



 
13
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join