Secret tape reveals Republican strategy to sabotage Obama's remaining years.

reply to post by Stormdancer777

Brainwashed?

It's something willful,wanting blind ignorance is my guess they buy everything he says without question.



Every where I look they claim to be the 'smartest' people in the room I have yet to see any of them ever prove it.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


The truth is, someone really does need to try and sweep the current administration's dirt under a rug if they want any of the other Democrats to have a chance during the next mid-term election. That's the ONLY reason I can think of that someone would try to defend Obama right now.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Indigo5

 

On October 26, 2009, a teleconference was held at the Department of Justice in Washington, D.C

Washington DC DOJ Holder.

So Yeah

??? And three sentences down from that very paragraph you provided...

Those at the meeting apparently did not suggest using the "gunwalking" tactic, but Phoenix ATF supervisors would soon use it in an attempt to achieve the desired goals

BS much??

Nope my name is Neo

Not Barrack Obama.

reply to post by Indigo5


Let's see what else we can find out about that...

But those at the meeting, which included a Justice Department official, did not want to stop the illegal gun sales until they had something to show for their efforts. Hoover suggested a "30-day, 60-day or 90-day" exit plan that would shut Fast and Furious down for good — just as soon as there were some indictments.

But indictments did not come for another 10 months. By then, two semiautomatics had been recovered after a U.S. Border Patrol agent was killed south of Tucson, and nearly 200 had been found at crime scenes in Mexico.

articles.latimes.com...

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Benghazi was not a "Scandal"...it was a terrorist attack and tragedy.

It became a scandal when the administration lied about why and how it happened.

But they didn't lie....That is just the absolute fact of it after 11 + investigations and hearings.

The concept that they lied has been adopted by the right wing, while the facts show the opposite.

What are you smoking!!! The edited talking points have been published. They PROVE that the administration made every attempt to cover up the true nature of the attack. Pleas were made for months for improved security at the consulate given the nature of the TERRORIST threat - pleas that went unanswered.

When the attack occurred, pleas were made for help. Orders were given to "Stand down" - orders that can only come from the White House. Orders that have been confirmed through Congressional testimony.

I get it, you are completely entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to not see this as a scandal. However, you are NOT entitled to your own facts. Putting your head in the sand doesn't make this any less of a scandal than it really is.

That said, you make a BOLD claim: "The concept that they lied has been adopted by the right wing, while the facts show the opposite." I'll be waiting for you to publish the alleged facts!

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Thanks for the information on "Operation Wide Receiver", as I was not familiar with it.

Unfortunately, it didn't keep Obama from using an Executive Order to keep from handing over documentation from the DOJ regarding Fast and Furious and their level of knowledge on it

Issa got all the docs he asked for about the Operation up to when the investigation started. Thousands of pages.

Then he requested the communications from the WH and Holder AFTER Issa started his hearings...which would have undoubtedly discussed what an ass Issa was, how it was playing in the press, Holder's testimony etc. etc. essentially the "politics" of it. It was an aim to embarras the WH and if thier was WH knowledge before hand it would have been included in the unfettered access to every communication PRIOR to SHTF and the hearings. SO yah. the WH invoked Exec Priveledge and didn't turn over internal communications from AFTER the Operation had been shut down etc.

and I know for a fact that Holder lied about WHEN he became aware of the program. I viewed transcripts of him talking about it in speeches after he denied having known about it at all.

Discussing the operation in high level terms and knowing that the group was gun-walking are two different things. I have even seen conservative sites acknowledge that the "holder lied" bit is BS.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Brainwashed?

It's something willful,wanting blind ignorance is my guess they buy everything he says without question.

Every where I look they claim to be the 'smartest' people in the room I have yet to see any of them ever prove it.

For the love of god, they read the forum they know what is happening in his administration.

I don't get it,

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

The truth is, someone really does need to try and sweep the current administration's dirt under a rug if they want any of the other Democrats to have a chance during the next mid-term election. That's the ONLY reason I can think of that someone would try to defend Obama right now.

Good point, I don't see any other Dem candidate with the power to persuade people to vote for them, neither side actually,
Hillary, I don't see it, she can hardly walk,

reply to post by Stormdancer777

For the love of god, they read the forum they know what is happening in his administration.

Yes they do and look at what we see :

Obama is just a 'victim' of the right hell their entire platform is the victimization neurosis they are all 'victims' of the Right and all the manufactured boogieman they come up with.

No matter what!

Obama is never to blame for nothing.

When anyone from this administration speaks, this is what happens on my dashboard:


I find it incredulous, to say the very least, that ANYONE can still defend this administration. One must be filled with incomprehensible amounts of self-loathing to go there. Especially after the 8 years of anti-Bush bellyaching. Do none of you Obama supporters see how silly you look defending the very same policies you spent 8 years trashing?!?

Originally posted by kozmo

What are you smoking!!! The edited talking points have been published.
They PROVE that the administration made every attempt to cover up the true nature of the attack.

Just the opposite. The editing train shows the administration did nothing but sign off on a document that was assembled and edited by the intelligence community. Even the one line that the State Dept. suggested ended up being nothing and "faked" by an GOP aid in a leak and was shown to be the same when the WH released the full editing train.

Originally posted by kozmo
Pleas were made for months for improved security at the consulate given the nature of the TERRORIST threat - pleas that went unanswered.

Kind of. they both asked for more security from State...and Amb. Stephens turned down offered help when the Pentagon offered to give him some folks. That ones a little complicated and has to do with in-house issues between CIA and State and who was providing security for a joint-op.

Originally posted by kozmo
When the attack occurred, pleas were made for help. Orders were given to "Stand down" - orders that can only come from the White House. Orders that have been confirmed through Congressional testimony.

No offense...but you are working with headlines...and not much else. A couple of guys with side-arms assigned to protect the OTHER Libyan embassy wanted to abandon those personell and hop a flight for several hours to Benghazi. At that time two seperate Spec-Ops teams were already in route and African Command, not WH, told those guys to stay put and protect the emb. personell they were assigned to. BTW- The plane they wanted to get on didn't arrive until the next morning.

Originally posted by kozmo
I get it, you are completely entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to not see this as a scandal. However, you are NOT entitled to your own facts.

That's why I research everything I claim..then research some more...I am not the one disregarding facts.

Originally posted by kozmo
That said, you make a BOLD claim: "The concept that they lied has been adopted by the right wing, while the facts show the opposite." I'll be waiting for you to publish the alleged facts!

I have several times...links, transcripts, testimony, docs...all on the relevant threads here on ATS...not going to repeat my work.

If you want to challenge any one item above, I'll hunt it down for you. Otherwise you are fully capable of researching, googling yourself?

reply to post by neo96


This is the model of modern progressivism. You cannot be responsible for anything because you are simply a victim!

The problems in the black community have nothing to do with not taking advantage of education opportunities, the breakdown of the family, the glorification of crime - NOPE! None of those things matter because they are VICTIMS! Of what? I have no idea. But they are!

This is the primary difference between Conservativism and Progressivism. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility. Progressives believe that everything is someone else's fault. Using our best "Adult" thinking-caps, which system is most likely to yield a successful society?

reply to post by Indigo5


Come on! You SAYING it, doesn't make ANY of it fact!

I followed it closely. NONE of your claims hold any water. SHOW me FACTS. I'm not interested in your spin!

reply to post by Indigo5

Discussing the operation in high level terms and knowing that the group was gun-walking are two different things. I have even seen conservative sites acknowledge that the "holder lied" bit is BS.

Here's what Holder said on May 3, 2011...

ISSA: When did you first know about the program officially I believe called Fast and Furious? To the best of your knowledge, what date?

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I'm not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks.

www.realclearpolitics.com...

So, in March 2010, Hoover holds an "emergency meeting" that included a Justice Department official regarding Fast and Furious, yet Holder never even heard about it until over a year later?

reply to post by Stormdancer777

I was just thinking about that myself, what does it profit a person to so adamantly defend Obama?

I think it's come down to a pretty simple thing, really. Simple to identify but don't ask me for solutions. I dunno.

The idea of being 'right' vs. being 'correct' have become two very different things. For many, it's far more important to be right. As for being incorrect on an issue? Well, that can be blamed on someone else later. As long as nothing wrong, even mistaken conviction for ideals, ever has to be faced or admitted.

I don't know when that became more important than actually being correct on a thing ...but it's what we've watched actual violence break out with now in different times around the nation. Two sides are 100% absolutely RIGHT ...when only one can be correct, if not a combination from both ..but neither will stop fighting long enough to even consider such a thing. Nowhere is it worse than national politics. Sport became contact became death match.

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by neo96

 

This is the model of modern progressivism. You cannot be responsible for anything because you are simply a victim!

The problems in the black community have nothing to do with not taking advantage of education opportunities, the breakdown of the family, the glorification of crime - NOPE! None of those things matter because they are VICTIMS! Of what? I have no idea. But they are!

This is the primary difference between Conservativism and Progressivism. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility. Progressives believe that everything is someone else's fault. Using our best "Adult" thinking-caps, which system is most likely to yield a successful society?

Expand that further:

They(progressives) have a massive inferiority complex who determines their self worth by how much money government gives them, and how often government whispers sweet nothings in to their ears telling them how special they are.

They form groups because they have been sold a bill of goods they are nothing without others constantly reinforcing their self image.

And that makes them slaves to the body politic.

reply to post by muse7

But audio of a May Groundswell meeting obtained by C&L from a source who wishes to remain anonymous...

given that the anonymous source is trying to sell the current admins scandals as being bogus repug BS...

I'd hazard a guess that "anonymous source" is none other than a WH tool with a recording provided by nsa/prism

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Discussing the operation in high level terms and knowing that the group was gun-walking are two different things. I have even seen conservative sites acknowledge that the "holder lied" bit is BS.

Here's what Holder said on May 3, 2011...

ISSA: When did you first know about the program officially I believe called Fast and Furious? To the best of your knowledge, what date?

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I'm not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks.

www.realclearpolitics.com...

So, in March 2010, Hoover holds an "emergency meeting" that included a Justice Department official regarding Fast and Furious, yet Holder never even heard about it until over a year later?

Had to hunt down the "emergency meeting" thing

Acting Deputy Director William Hoover called an emergency meeting and said he wanted an "exit strategy" to shut down the program. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives for decades had dedicated itself to stopping illegal gun-trafficking of any kind. Now it was allowing illegal gun purchases on the Southwest border and letting weapons "walk" unchecked into Mexico.

But those at the meeting, which included a Justice Department official, did not want to stop the illegal gun sales until they had something to show for their efforts. Hoover suggested a "30-day, 60-day or 90-day" exit plan that would shut Fast and Furious down for good — just as soon as there were some indictments.

So your premise is that since a "Justice Official" was present, then Eric Holder was aware?

That seems a leap...at the time F&F was one of hundreds if not thousands of operations...not just ATF...F&F wasn't well known or high profile...just another local ATF Op...and a "justice official" ...how many people work at Justice?

The idea that Holder has omni-knowledge of every local operation in every agency and that every Justice employee relates every piece of information seems a stretch...it's possible...but not proven...or even likely IMO.

At the time F&F was just one Op among countless...and countless Justice employees sitting in on the Op meetings.

IMO not likely holder knew...and from a factual standard...not proven at all.

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Come on! You SAYING it, doesn't make ANY of it fact!

I followed it closely. NONE of your claims hold any water. SHOW me FACTS. I'm not interested in your spin!

Challenge any one thing I said ....They are all factual. You still refuse to research for yourself and rather lean on bias headlines? Pick one...and I will lay it out for you, links included, But I am not going to write a book for you.

reply to post by kozmo

Especially after the 8 years of anti-Bush bellyaching.

I think about that often.

Interestingly I never defended him even though sometimes I felt they were really over the top with the hatred, so I try to stick with the topic but I don't make hateful comments.

I never belittle his wife or children even though Bush and Palin's children got attacked mercilessly on the forum.