DARPA to Genetically Engineer Humans by Adding a 47th Chromosome

Originally posted by dreamingawake
Perhaps it's part of assuring that,

The human race will one day split into two separate species, an attractive, intelligent ruling elite and an underclass of dim-witted, ugly goblin-like creatures, according to a top scientist. Source

Sounds like an article designed to make us believe that we need someone to "save us".

The one part that I completely agree with, and have been saying for a long time, is...

Medicine will weaken our immune system...

You only have to look at how poor people's immune systems are today that use antibiotics too much.

People don't understand this well. To create a superior group of people means that we are an inferior race of beings. That means that the people who think that the GM people they are creating are better than everyone, including themselves. These scientists must have a severe inferiority complex or realize that their logic is distorted to want to create a being who would be superior. I am a pretty good human, I do not desire to hurt anything unless there is a good reason to do so. I do not fear nature or man, although pill pushing doctors give me the creeps. I fear what greed and pride creates, not mankind itself. If they can GM a man, make one who cannot become greedy, can not become power hungry, or get a big Ego and maybe they will create perfection........I think they used to call them Hippies.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

All in all, it's a suspicion of government and doesn't matter what I say. No harm is done in presenting a question.

Absolutely not. It's called sceptism and it is a useful outlook in most aspects of life. But it doesn't do much good if it's a one way street. In examining the claims in the OP it becomes apparent that the claims are flat out false. The OP claims that this RFP is about genetically engineering humans. It isn't. Nowhere in the RFP is that stated or implied.

Could this sort of technology be used for nefarious ends? Of course it could. So can virtually anything. But rather than talking about that, the article in the OP has to lie about what the actual content is. Why is that? What benefit is there in the lies about what the research is about? Could it be used as a weapon? Of course it could. The two edged sword is hardly a new concept. Gee, I bet the computer I'm sitting at could be used to guide a missile.

Sure, discuss the possible ramifications. That is a valid discussion. But why lie about it? This proposed research is not about genetically engineering humans. To claim that it is, is a hoax.

I cannot answer those questions. I'm not the OP. I was responding to your reply to me.

Concerning the topic, I haven't come to any definite conclusions yet but have considered yet another reason why this sounds shady. I'm speaking of the endeavor itself and not how the OP presents it. Perhaps that is just the way they interpret it and want to build a case based on that however they can. I'm not going to squabble with them over that because I feel there's still something important to look at here and at least they attempted to discuss it in some format... although I do agree that if this causes the whole subject to be considered a hoax, then spreading the information was never the objective and that is bad.

Right now I need to take to time separate what is the official word on this endeavor and what is not, but mainly for the sake of my own assessment. Unfortunately, adding to it makes it only more time consuming, I admit ... and I also have other issues I want to look into as well.

Don't really care about the merit to the story. Just want to say that if the chromosomes as whole cannot be broken down into perfect halves such as: 46 - 23/23 there will be no procreation.

Originally posted by Druscilla

Originally posted by burntheships

Then where would the creatures of the sea live?
Fish is good for us, to eat. Ah fish tacos, I love them!
And, fish is good for us to consume....did you not know?

Yes, the human race.
And likewise, step away from the new agesim hokey pokey.

We can gene-mod food fish that mow our lawns for food for themselves, or eat poop, or something else.
If we can gene mod ourselves to do anything, or be anything, then, we could quite effectively see a day where pigs do indeed fly.
Try to keep your mouth closed when looking up.

As to New-agism? I think you and I have some seriously different ideas about what constitutes new age-ism.
I see new age-ism as a bunch of hippies meditating and contemplating inner peace and being groovy but altogether useless.
I see gene-mods and self directed augmentation as the realization of transhumanism.

As to liking it or not, if ever it comes, feel free to opt out. I'm going with the immortal jellyfish genes, so, i'll be around for several hundred more years if not thousands.

perhaps if we are about "enhancement" for more viable futures, it would be wise to be less exploitative, and not need to eat, or utilize other life, which in and of itself, is a superior/inferior system, is it not?

As to your other points, would you survive no matter the cost, ethically, or what that would perhaps mean to your soul? Just asking, not meaning to offend. but I gather from your replies and interpretations, that you would adapt, evolve, as you say, wherever you happen to be, rather than refuse to, if that may mean changing the environment, which gets more hellish with those willing to go on, no matter what the price or where they are, rather than refuse in hopes of changing the environment.
Respectfully,
Tetra50

In other words, if someone doesn't stand their ground and choose otherwise, there may be no ground, no space, no nothing to stand on anymore......

reply to post by Phage

Oh my. What ever have I done? What ever shall I do?

Srry your questions make inconsequential sense?

Such a lot of words. I used quotation marks around "the caves" to indicate that it is a colloquialism. I understand that "cavemen" is a inaccurate description.

Yes but I thought you were talking about cavemen. If you were referring to other peoples of that time or whatever you were referring to why not say what you were referring to. Or you can just admit that your talking out your ass, or as they say changing the subject. And for your information I was talking about "cavemen" were in history are these cavemen you speak of, to so warrant a colloquialism and the implications of them being stupid? Explain your self? In what way are you referring to an almost non existent mental creation of a peoples in your wording? Or unless you really are talking about Fred Flintstones, In which case he to did not live in a cave as I said before.

To make sure I am not misunderstanding. You think that taking what is claimed in the OP at face value, without referring to the original source, is a good thing?

Original source? Really? He was referring to a source, then extrapolating from that source to his point. Of which you seem to be to dance around like somebody with a purpose of dancing around such subjects. The term "original" is merely a matter of opinion, as all sources are just sourced out to other sources. And as nothing is really original online or in this world, you would have to link what the hell your talking about.

And don't link the cell lines thing again, we understand that stuff exists, a Google search will tell you what it is. Its really an easy question it in some ways may be hypothetical but its not a far stretch to draw, the way it was not a far stretch to draw from creating man made germs to creating man made germ warfare. But it seems you like being dense on purpose, it is understandable.

No. "He" and the article "he" linked claim that the purpose of the proposed research is about genetically engineering humans. It is not. It is about improving existing methods of applying genetic modification to cell lines.

Finally you get it...Yes that was the sort of unspoken question and spoken as well. Oh and what happened about the whole human cell line thing? But hey what happened to all that human cell lines you were going on about? Have you finally decided that were not talking about dolphin cell lines? Off course it is about moving existing methods of applying genetic modifications to cell lines. Specifically human ones and there implications, and greater implications.

And yes that seems to be the thing he was talking about applying genetic modification, of which those can be varied and anything from something small to long term beneficiaries or long and short term applications, war like people keep saying being one of them. And lets face since when has it not gone the directed paths of consumer, military applications, and creating monopolies both of. I mean its pretty much concrete that if its made it will be made for the all directed paths and profits. Of which the two main being the consumer market, and off course war and control. The two go hand in hand like the fact whenever in the past you had the war machine move you had a priest in front to compliance the populous, today's new priest seems to be the scientist as they are more effective then the old religious models, and less inclined to questions. And like clockwork it has ever been so. Why would this time be any different when 99% of other times it was not? Even if it is something harmless or beneficial we are still talking about human augmentations and its implications. Unless you really were talking about dolphins?

I see you just like to mince words and don't really say much but go in circles. Hey its cool I can do that to. In fact a hobby of mine is arguing about semantics, in fact its a favority hobby of 90% of the people on this site. And though this may be the wrong thread for it. Well as your doing it, and arguing about things not on topic. Well! What do you think of the fact given that this planet is covered by 71% water and 30% or so earth some of which great swaths of it being uninhabitable.

There is a sort of irony thought complacent to the fact humans are land based animals, yet the irony is there in calling a planet which is mostly water = "earth" is hilarious. Almost as funny as calling two planes which almost collide a near miss? Do you know why the wording and mental patterns are put so? I mean other then the hilarious factor for the benefit of the outside observer. You must you do seem to go on about it. A near miss or a near hit? Which is it that happens when two planes almost collide? And why?

reply to post by Druscilla

Evolution to what? Use your imagination. How much of the planet is covered in water? That's a lot of realestate that could be opened up if people could live and breathe in that environment. What other environments on other planets yet to even be discovered in the future could we possibly adapt ourselves to with genemods?

What the! You want to live in and breathe in water? I take it only meant as a pastime as any prolonged exposure or any changes done to actually sustain any such lifestyle if even it is that. Will probably result in fish people I mean really no hands, no human head, definable the eyes got to go as there kind of useless under water. The skin well considering that when you take a bath for 10 minutes you end up looking like a prune. Being entombed in constant water and the human skin really do not go together, it will swell you up and you will be looking like a corpse who droned fast. And so therefore the skin has to go maybe replaced by some sort of fish like scales, you know got to go with what works or what nature has shown to work.

But short time underwater breathing or regressing and bringing gills back in style could happen. There may even be people who will convert to that sort of lifestyle if somebody actually put it out in terms of genetic modifications, even purely as a fashion statement as there are always people to every sort of lifestyle and fashion statement purely for the fact that they would be different. But then again when everybody wants to be different just like everybody else. Fishmen and birdmen, if you built it they will come. Though it does not necessarily mean it is a good idea even if it is embraced on a world wide scale.

Out of necessity I see were it may be necessary such as in space travel or in exo planetary habitation to suit that particular environment, however here on earth unless something changed drastically it will merely be just a fashion statement as its not necessary, merely a passing fad in many ways even if it were to happen in actuality. But if it were to happen of course people would do it, if nothing more then for the kicks, to some it may be no different then getting a tattoo. Of course most latter in life do happen to regret getting that tattoo.

reply to post by burntheships


So one day we will wake-up looking like survivors of an explosion in a Guacamole factory ??






C...

dolphins don't have scales.

2nd

reply to post by Wolfenz


Ya its a slippery slope dude.

Take the Brain For instance!! for an Ape to have Intellect like a Human just Wrap around more Cell Neurons X-3 times 3 More Quantity more Quality !

True in a way, but you would still have to somehow ingrave everything else, a brain is not a mind. Even human infants pretty much everying is thought or learned or ingrained by there parents surroundings and society. I you were to just somehow make a ape with the possibility of an intellect of a human ie a bigger brain. It will like be like when you take a wild animal and put it in a cage, that is it will likely rage be confused as hell and eventually die if of nothing but that fact it does not belong in a world were only it is of a kind with no parallels to draw from. As the human mind is nothing but a machine that constantly draws parallels, if you were to somehow make the brain of a chimp bigger and like a human it will still be nothing but a primitive animal unless thought otherwise.

People do not take in account the fact that there is also an evolutionary process lock and step between animals and there surroundings, without such a thing you would likely create a monster literally, something which can draw no parallels from anything and something which would have to evolve a whole new onset of codes and pretty much everything humans have evolved throughout the centuries and eons.

Adding more chromosomes really wont do much unless within a set parameter it is programed to do something there in. We already have a mass of junk DNA which apparently does nothing, of which at one time did something, and probably continues to do something unbeknownst to us. Which is why this all what the op is talking about and what people are arguing about on this thread has to have a purpose, a specific coding and programing, and more so a specific purpose for it to work. Kind of like your link of the Nazi scientist who help induce more twins in Brazil. Though creating twins really would not be that hard, they have already created clones of sheep and other animals, which is merely a copy and paste job. But installing specific traits within those clones is a whole nother thing altogether.

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by galadofwarthethird

 

Well, I mean I'm only 27 and I don't recognize my childhood (even up to age 18) anymore. I feel like I've lived a century.

Well, ya same here I think I am around 30 something, I in truth stoped counting when I was 14 or so, and not only do I not recognition my childhood though I know it is there, but I have a hard time recognizing my century even. I feel like I have lived for as long as I feel something, which is sometimes daily, other times not. I suppose that is a good sign. Or not. Go figure.

reply to post by NotAnAspie

wiki.answers.com...
Ruber like skin and plenty of blubber is the answer to icy coldness of the ocean, as muscle sinks and fat floats I take it the fatter or more bluber you have the easier it is to get around the ocean without constantly fighting to not sink. None of this is really necessary to change your genetics though you can do it in a suit with an oxygen mask, but even if you were to instal gills.

Then the rubbery skin could be replaced by a hightech dive suit, however for any prolonged diving or not to mention even living under water that to would become a death trap if it can not repair and regenerate itself. Dolphins constantly shed there rubber like skin and there body type is conductive to there environment, so in effect to create a human who can live under water you would have to create a dolphin. And even if it had human like intellect its mind would have to adapt to suit its environment, and again in effect it would become more dolphin like. I mean there cant be much fun a human would be able to do being constantly under water, I would think it would get boring after the first few days. But a hybrid combination of technology and biology you could create a sustainable creature and environment which is conductive to being underwater. however the technology and the biology to do that does not exist or at least humans are in no way no how capable of it.

Originally posted by Cosmic4life
reply to post by burntheships

 

So one day we will wake-up looking like survivors of an explosion in a Guacamole factory ??

Oh, I love guacamole, especially on fish tacos, but the looks of it,
ah I think I would much prefer it the way it is!

Besides, that looks painful, the cracks and all when that Guac would dry out.

If it bleeds, we can kill it. I'll watch and find out.

reply to post by cavtrooper7




Just watch out if green stuff starts seeping through.
Keep your bio suit handy k?

reply to post by burntheships


Well at least some people see this for the hoax that it is, even if the mods don't.
That's enough to keep me from being disgusted with the intellect void at least.

Originally posted by xuenchen

One Eyed one Horned Flying Purple People Eater

And, all of this and its only going to cost hundreds of millions!
Well, at least they are being honest now. (well sort of not)
Not bad for a library of “modular genetic parts".
www.wired.com...

nar.oxfordjournals.org...

Interesting Chimeric RNA stuff - DARPA - just for men who stare at goats stuff
nar.oxfordjournals.org...

'Tis but one piece of the puzzle here, naysayers. If the one piece is all you can look at, then: God bless it's little heart. You'll never have enough to glue it to the board.

For those that can, and have the balls, to come to their own conclusions based on a multitude of evidentiary items that show motive, means, reckless malfeasance, and intent---then welcome to the club. The clueless are not allowed. You have to be THIS tall to ride.

reply to post by burntheships


Sniping from as far away as I can fire might help.