Arrest over mosque blast tattoo seen at Birmingham EDL rally

Arrest over mosque blast tattoo seen at Birmingham EDL rally

www.bbc.co.uk

A man photographed at an English Defence League rally with a tattoo on his ribs of a mosque being blown up has been arrested on suspicion of stirring up racial hatred.

The 39-year-old man from South Shields, South Tyneside, was arrested following the protest in Birmingham on 20 July.

A man was pictured at the rally with a tattoo of a mosque with the word "boom!" on it.

Officers said the arrested man had since been released on bail.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.huffing tonpost.co.uk

I'm not really sure what to say about this.

I'm genuinely not sure what to make of it.

Firstly, I can't believe someone would get that tattoo done, it's absolutely rubbish and isn't really the smartest thing to have permanently daubed onto your body.

But more importantly, I can't really believe someone has been arrested for putting a very childish cartoon esq tattoo onto their own body.

Where do the police go with this from here?

I'm handing this over to the more intelligent minds of ATS because I just don't know where this leaves us.

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

A really awkward situation if I may add. The man that got arrested probably isn't the smartest guy around and the people, especially the radicals have a tendency to make a great deal out of it.
I guess it's his own right to put whatever he wants on his body but everything has its limits.

If a muslim had a picture of a church on his body with boom written on it would he be arrested? probably not.

It's the UK Nanny State, filtered communist Internet coming, camera's everywhere, they're talking about micro-chipping all inmates....is anyone surprised?

When the tech comes out, they'll be the first to have thought police on the scene.

I predict there will be a HUGE revolution against the Gov there one day. Just combine all the soccer fans into one giant people's army, and go take your Gov back

1. Tattoos are ugly. Look at those guys trying to look mean with their colored skin... Uhh, wait.... That makes my head hurt.

2. Is that even real? Looks awfully dark (new ink) with no redness/swelling?

3. What exactly does a "mosque" look like? Is that supposed to be a specific mosque? Every mosque I've seen looks completely different, like every temple or cathedral.

reply to post by DaTroof

Tattoos are ugly

...that's your opinion...Millions of people will disagree...I am one of those.


(...the tattoo this thread is about is rather stupid though...IMO...)

Originally posted by DaTroof
1. Tattoos are ugly. Look at those guys trying to look mean with their colored skin... Uhh, wait.... That makes my head hurt.

2. Is that even real? Looks awfully dark (new ink) with no redness/swelling?

3. What exactly does a "mosque" look like? Is that supposed to be a specific mosque? Every mosque I've seen looks completely different, like every temple or cathedral.

LOL...yes they look really mean. Seriously ignorant post on your part. I have plenty of tattoos and most are of art...covers 50% of my body and no, I am not mean and my wife seems to think I am not ugly either.

On topic...to each their own. I learned after my first 3 at an early age that I should really think about what I wanted and waited 10 years to get my next. As far as the police arresting him...should not have been done unless it was for his safety. While he may have the right to put whatever he wants on his skin, he should be aware of his audience before showing it. I see people every week with tattoos and some with things I would never even think of putting permanently on my skin.

Darwinism usually rules out and I would say that tattoo combined with the wrong place to show it would definitely end in a Darwin Award.

reply to post by dominicus


You mean like the EDL? I hope they get nowhere because they are vile thugs, and of the same mentality as the person in the OP. I just read it properly and yep, he's a member. What a moron.

reply to post by bates

Firstly, I can't believe someone would get that tattoo done, it's absolutely rubbish and isn't really the smartest thing to have permanently daubed onto your body.

Well I would believe it, most folks form the EDL are lacking a chromosome somewhere i think and yes they really would have something like that tattooed across their plump guts.

But more importantly, I can't really believe someone has been arrested for putting a very childish cartoon esq tattoo onto their own body.

This I agree with it does seem a little harsh on first glance but if you think about the message behind it to any Muslim who looks at that tattoo, it says "I want to or would support your mosque being blown up". If he were to have walked up to a Muslim and said, seriously, I want to blow up your mosque. That would be solid grounds for arrest for inciting racial hatred (racial includes religious under UK law). For that reason I think he should be arrested.

I can see no reasonable reason to have that tattooed and even less reason to go showing it off in public, he just be treated just like a Muslim should be treated if he had a tattoo of a Church being blown up.

It might sound harsh at first, but yes he should have been arrested for that.

Where do the police go with this from here?

Well its now in the hands of the CPS i would guess and the best they will probably get will be community service, they might possibly order he remove the tattoo, have it changed or keep it covered when in public.

making an issue of this, through the arrest and all subsequent reportage (and republication of the image) is far more likely to 'stir up racial hatred' than the tattoo itself ever would have.

Originally posted by dominicus
I predict there will be a HUGE revolution against the Gov there one day. Just combine all the soccer fans into one giant people's army, and go take your Gov back

The soccer hooligans and EDL lunatics are a very extreme minority. After the death of Lee Rigby, the far right had a surge of support from imbeciles across the country incapable of holding a logical opinion about anything. The response we saw in the UK was a worrying one, because there were a lot of idiots who barely think suddenly siding with a fascist movement because they don't understand what's happening. But thankfully, that's now declining again and those idiots are going back to watching Britain's Got Talent and screaming over BS tabloid stories.

There is no revolution coming to the UK, because there are not enough capable and intelligent people willing to organize and protest. The BBC makes sure that the people are kept in the dark about important issues - you'll notice that the spying of GCHQ and the NSA barely gets a mention on the BBC at any time.

As for the idiot with the tattoo, I'm skeptical about the story. He says he has since had it removed, but he doesn't exactly look like the kind of man who would be able to afford to pay the thousands of £'s it would cost to have a predominantly black tattoo removed.

That would cost a hell of a lot of money to get rid of, and the image of it seems to suggest it was drawn on with marker pen.

I too am a little confused about the legality of this. Having a tattoo is not a criminal offense, and art should not be silenced based on the threatening nature of it or what someone might think of it. What is to stop someone from being arrested for having an upside down crucifix tattooed on them? What about the EDL members with Swastika tattoos?

I really don't care what people tattoo themselves with, it's their actions that should be scrutinized. People can believe whatever they want to believe, and people should feel free to decorate their bodies as they wish. Punishing people for something someone else is disgusted or offended by is not the remit of the police or our government.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
This I agree with it does seem a little harsh on first glance but if you think about the message behind it to any Muslim who looks at that tattoo, it says "I want to or would support your mosque being blown up". If he were to have walked up to a Muslim and said, seriously, I want to blow up your mosque. That would be solid grounds for arrest for inciting racial hatred (racial includes religious under UK law). For that reason I think he should be arrested.

I think I disagree with you. Which is odd, because we usually think along the same lines.

I did initially consider it in the same way as you, but after consideration I don't think it's right that someone can be arrested for this.

Tattoos are art, whether we agree on the quality of it or the intention. So where do we draw the line in he sand and say that some tattoos are okay and some are not?

This is about translation, some might look at that and think it's a threat, and it's pretty clear that his intention was to use it to express a violent view, but this is all about people being threatened by an image.

What is there to stop the government from doing this whenever it finds something that it doesn't like? If we use the same argument of threats in art, "V For Vendetta" can now be criminalized and those in possession of it arrested.

Originally posted by bates

Arrest over mosque blast tattoo seen at Birmingham EDL rally

www.bbc.co.uk

A man photographed at an English Defence League rally with a tattoo on his ribs of a mosque being blown up has been arrested on suspicion of stirring up racial hatred.

The 39-year-old man from South Shields, South Tyneside, was arrested following the protest in Birmingham on 20 July.

A man was pictured at the rally with a tattoo of a mosque with the word "boom!" on it.

Officers said the arrested man had since been released on bail.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.huffing tonpost.co.uk

removed after reading the huffington post link

reply to post by Rocker2013

The soccer hooligans and EDL lunatics are a very extreme minority. After the death of Lee Rigby, the far right had a surge of support from imbeciles across the country incapable of holding a logical opinion about anything.

My whole point was, that when I see English Soccer fans at games, there is so much adrenaline, energy, unification (well depending on who you are rooting for), and people all wanting the same outcome.

But when it comes to the UK Nanny State....everyone stays quiet and I don't here much about anyone fighting back. If that same energy could be harnessed from soccer fans, to fight what goes on in your country, you actually stand a chance replacing the Nanny state.

I understand there is for right, far left, edl, bad eggs, etc.....but that was not my point. It was more so Unification to replace the current Gov

reply to post by bates


Two things to say.

The EDL, no matter what they have on thier skin, need to be dragged through the streets, and hung, drawn and quatered for crapping all over the efforts of those who fought against the Nazis, to banish right wing, white supremacist anti-thought from our nation, from the continent of which we are a part. I would gladly take a commission from government, if our government had any balls what so ever, to take that organisation apart bit by bleeding, screaming bit.

On the subject of tattoos, I have two of my own, which I designed myself, and considered for YEARS before having them applied to my skin. Many of my friends have tattoos, many of which are tasteful, artistic, and are not in any way meant to intimidate, or concern people. Most often, tattoos are a personal affectation, which are designed to enrich the life of the wearer, not affect those who veiw them. I should add that many of the people I know who have tattoos are really charming, personable people, who treat all the folk they meet with respect, and carry thier personal honour and dignity as amongst thier highest priorities.

I have at least two disqualifications from posting in this thread. One, I do not have a tattoo and have no desire to get one, ever. Two, I'm an American with no feeling for British attitudes or legal systems.

Knowing that I have nothing to add, I will proceed regardless.

"Death to the EDL?" "Draw and quarter anyone who thinks that way?" "Rid the Continent of that kind of thinking?"

Do you see no danger in that? Is that the only group which will ever be unpopular with a large group of Britons? When other groups pop up with ideas considered reprehensible, will you call for their death or elimination? As I've seen here, there are a large number of posters calling the Royal Family all sorts of names and calling for their elimination, so perhaps we're on our way.

Is the EDL really the threat you should be looking at, or are other groups expressing similar ideas in much greater numbers?

Pew Research (2007): 35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified

Populus Poll (2006): 16% of British Muslims believe suicide attacks against Israelis are justified.
37% believe Jews in Britain are a "legitimate target".

BBC Poll: 1 in 10 British Muslims support killing a family member over "dishonor"

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

As I understand it, the man's offense was having a visible tattoo that angered a religious group. Would he have been arrested for a tattoo that showed a pig entering a Mosque? For a respectful drawing of Muhammad? For carrying a sign with either of those images? How about a sign saying "No Sharia in Our Great Country?" I expect he would be arrested in each of those circumstances.

A great poet wrote "Britons never, never, never, shall be slaves." It seems as though some value their freedom less highly than in the past. Why? I don't know. But it makes me uncomfortable and concerned for the future of a great and historic people.

Originally posted by charles1952
Would he have been arrested for a tattoo that showed a pig entering a Mosque? For a respectful drawing of Muhammad? For carrying a sign with either of those images? How about a sign saying "No Sharia in Our Great Country?" I expect he would be arrested in each of those circumstances.

Christopher Hitchens has stood in Britain and spoke out against Islam directly - especially targetting Sharia Law.

The only crime I believe Hitchens was ever arrested of was of being too awesome, but I think there was a lack of evidence and he was let go to ride a fiery chariot into the sky or something.

Humor aside, no I he wouldn't have been arrested specifically for those things I don't think? Unless there is some precedent I'm missing, British police generally only arrest persons for inciting violence. They are a little more aggressive about hate speech than America but then so is 98% of Europe and the rest of the planet.

reply to post by Pinke

Dear Pinke,

Thanks a lot for the help. As I said I don't have any real knowledge of Great Britain and I appreciate being set straight.

Wouldn't a portrait of Mohammed be seen as inciting violence? I thought the Dutch cartoonist was killed over that. If I was a British policeman and saw such a picture at a march, the least I would do is turn to my partner and say, "Better strap on your helmet real tight, we're in for one heck of a brawl." Then I'd probably curse, ask "What in the 'ell is that blasted idiot doing? Now he's spoiled my day and I won't get home to see my Missus. Let's jug the fool."

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Pinke

 

Wouldn't a portrait of Mohammed be seen as inciting violence?

The British police generally have more power in this area than Americans. Sometimes permits are required too. I recommend the work of Mark Thomas the comedian if you an interest in this process. (Its very British and would appeal to an American who wants a reason to scorn them; even spontaneous British protests are organized civililly and in advance haha)

A very truncated description of British approach to this is that Westboro Baptist church members are forbidden from entering Britain, or at least the main ones are ... but persons such as the leader of the EDL are not in prison 24/7 ... though Tommy can be a bit of a thug so he does have a prison record.

Short answer is, there is a grey area ... but Muslims have protested offensively and so have their opponents. The police don't appear to arrest persons specifically on the basis for a message being offensive, but having a picture of Mohammad displayed at a Muslim funeral service would be off limits or threatening to kill someone also.

I thought the Dutch cartoonist was killed over that.

Can read about this here.

Regarding it being a tattoo, UK police don't seem to draw that distinction. Even if the message is on a victoria sponge cake, it can still be a form of protest.

Just to head off a question I can see coming down the train tracks ... British police have expelled and arrested several Muslim protestors in relation to their support of terrorist organizations, so its not actually that one sided.