Drug Penalty’s causeing a bigger drug problem?

Ok living in Chatham in UK I live in an area hit with the drug problem. I have seen people in the community some even family fail down this hole.

Now one of the biggest problem is throwing the users in prison, sometimes for even longer that the dealers.
Some of these uses have just got unlucky and have been repeatedly caught in possession of Cannabis and got a magistrate on a bad day and get a few months in prison but half the time they come out on even harder drugs! Plus no I know who goes to prison for procession come out without their addiction, instead it gets worse.

On the other hand I have seen first-hand some of the Re hab clinics dotted around the country, unlike prisons they see to have a good rate of treating addiction. 9 out of 10 times there normally seems to be an undiagnosed mental health problem that was there before the addiction and treating that seems to solve the addiction problem. Intact there have been a few schemes to send addicts to rehab on court orders and the ones I have seen seem to come out good productive people.


To the question is should we be locking addicts away like scum? Or sending them to rehab centres were they can get help?

reply to post by crazyewok


In b4 404.

This thread will be nixed soon.

Look at Portugal, Decriminallized everything, saw massive drop in use, and rehab is actually effective there.

Look at the US, Mandatory Minimum Sentencing laws = Prison population the likes of which the world has never seen.

Whole generations of men and women lost to the prison system, some for as little as a few ounces of weed.

Just look at the numbers in the US, something is wrong with the system in place there.

Here's a timely example in the news...

The Heartbreaking Story Of A Harmless Deadhead Sentenced To Die In Prison

Tyler, for his part, had a history of psychosis and bipolar disorder. He did break the law, though. He sold acid to friends for less than dollar a hit at Grateful Dead concerts, where he also sold fried dough, and he was arrested twice for drug offenses. Then he got arrested a third time after selling larger quantities of the drug to a friend who turned out to be an informant.

He pleaded guilty, making the government's job easier, and netted less than $3,000 from his paper-route styled method of drug dealing and was clearly non-violent. The result, life in prison.

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by crazyewok

 

In b4 404.

This thread will be nixed soon.

In Skeptic Overlords own words:

"5) The US (and international) drug laws that impose disproportionate penalties "


So this comes in under that.

If not then this forums gone mad

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Here's a timely example in the news...

The Heartbreaking Story Of A Harmless Deadhead Sentenced To Die In Prison

Tyler, for his part, had a history of psychosis and bipolar disorder. He did break the law, though. He sold acid to friends for less than dollar a hit at Grateful Dead concerts, where he also sold fried dough, and he was arrested twice for drug offenses. Then he got arrested a third time after selling larger quantities of the drug to a friend who turned out to be an informant.

He pleaded guilty, making the government's job easier, and netted less than $3,000 from his paper-route styled method of drug dealing and was clearly non-violent. The result, life in prison.

I can remember friends from high school promising middle income children, lost to the Prison system over non-violent offenses involving mandatory minimums.

One lost a scholar ship to UCLA for such an offense.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Here's a timely example in the news...

The Heartbreaking Story Of A Harmless Deadhead Sentenced To Die In Prison

Tyler, for his part, had a history of psychosis and bipolar disorder. He did break the law, though. He sold acid to friends for less than dollar a hit at Grateful Dead concerts, where he also sold fried dough, and he was arrested twice for drug offenses. Then he got arrested a third time after selling larger quantities of the drug to a friend who turned out to be an informant.

He pleaded guilty, making the government's job easier, and netted less than $3,000 from his paper-route styled method of drug dealing and was clearly non-violent. The result, life in prison.

Thats really sad story and is pretty heavy

As his family said he should have got help to to straighten him out first.

I mean how can you send a dope head to do more time than a murder?

The sick one is this:

www.businessinsider.com...-hannigan-got-a-15-year-prison-sentence-for-trying-to-kill-himself-with -the-painkiller-vicodin-8


The poor man was trying to kill himeself and he gets 15 years !!!!

He needed to go to a mental hopsital for treatment!


WOW I mean just WOW thats Britains strict laws look almost non existant.

I truly believe the checks and balances of the modern judicial system are balanced unjustly in some circumstances.

I truly hate the laws here, im just glad the decriminalization mindset is spreading....Drinkers get a fair shake at drinking and driving, or not driving rather.

reply to post by crazyewok


I posted a story about how Portugal decriminalized and instead offered education to people.
But that story was taken down.
I guess I put it in the wrong place.
Shame because it was a good article.

I used this document referenced in another thread about one of the most prolific white collar criminals for sheer damage done in our nation's history, and how he was getting off cheap. That came before S.O. and Staff opened this forum, so I had to actually argue away from looking at the drug related portions of it. They are the absolute worst of the entire document.

FEDERAL MANDATORY MINIMUMS

This list includes all federal (not state) sentencing laws that require the judge to give the offender a mandatory minimum prison term. Laws that require the judge
to impose only a minimum fine or period of supervised release are not included in this list. The crimes charged most frequently today (i.e., drug crimes, gun
offenses) are presented first, followed by statutes that are used less frequently. This list includes only the laws in effect as of August 6, 2012.

Source: Federal Mandatory Minimum Charts

Since the topic comes up, I thought seeing what the statutory requirement for some offenses would be as informative as it should be disturbing. For example....

These would be the substances.....

Mandatory sentences triggered whenever crime
involves:
• 1 kg+ heroin
• 5 kg+ coc aine
• 280 g+ crack
• 100 g+ PCP (pure) or 1 kg+ PCP (mixture)
• 10 g+ '___'
• 1,000 kg+ marijuana or 1,000+ marijuana
plants
• 50 g+ meth (pure) or 500 g+ meth
(mixture)

This is the offense...

3rd offense, manufacturing, distributing, or possessing with intent to distribute

and Life In Prison is the door prize from Uncle Sam. Oh there is an asterix next to 'Life', though. What could that be? Perhaps a footnote about how Life is only in extreme cases, right?

*These mandatory sentences also apply to attempts and conspiracies (charged as a violation of 21 U.S.C. § 846 or 21 U.S.C. § 963) to commit these drug crimes.

Hey, it's ATS. You didn't really think there would be such a happy footnote, did ya?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Its so pointless as the most likley to be Rehabilitated are the simple users or low level dealers.

With simple therapy and support from mental health experts the majority would kick the habbit and make a start on treating the issue in there lives that made them turn to drugs. and this could be done over a few months.


Locking them up and throwing away the key seem to be not only the most inhumane way of "dealing" with the issue but also the most expensive! Surely 3- 6 months in hospital is cheaper than life in prisons.

This seems to me to be mistreat of vulnrable and menatly ill people.

reply to post by benrl


It's scary that this is the reality. Many people overlook how many drug addicts and dealers live in their neighborhoods. Families becoming addict to drugs where they would spend all their money on the drugs and how they would become crazy.

My family is one of the many I have seen destroyed by drugs. Their addictions have caused to become angry and crazy. Which results in the police being called and them going to jail. So far they have only stayed for a few days at a time. But if they allow their addiction to get worse then it is; which it's horrible already, they can get very worse.

I have heard cases where people steal from strangers for chump change because they wanted to get high. It's sad when the only solution to curbing the violence is arresting the people and that never helps. Because it continues to grow and grow.

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by benrl

 

It's scary that this is the reality. Many people overlook how many drug addicts and dealers live in their neighborhoods. Families becoming addict to drugs where they would spend all their money on the drugs and how they would become crazy.

My family is one of the many I have seen destroyed by drugs. Their addictions have caused to become angry and crazy. Which results in the police being called and them going to jail. So far they have only stayed for a few days at a time. But if they allow their addiction to get worse then it is; which it's horrible already, they can get very worse.

I have heard cases where people steal from strangers for chump change because they wanted to get high. It's sad when the only solution to curbing the violence is arresting the people and that never helps. Because it continues to grow and grow.

Yea, the guy that was going to UCLA, got hit with three felony counts, it was complex, he had scale and baggies in his car, he had another set at his home, each with his "Stash" which he grew in a shed out behind his house.

He was a smart kid and had built an entire Aeroponics system in his shed, all of that he was doing to help pay for his schooling ontop of the scholarship he got.

He wanted to be a doctor, last I heard he was an addict and repeat violent offender, his mother has since lost track of him.

reply to post by crazyewok


The problem isn't that arresting people addicted or in a rough spot trying to ignore or get away for a bit, it's that the prison system is more a industrial complex being turned mega-conglomerate, it's simply big business to jail people now.

The Prison population:

Works for under minimum wage
Cannot really show up late, or not at all for work
Will not do anything but work, and leave after done
Is vast and ever increasing
is a stock variable now

When this happens, humanity has lost, and many times will take acts of nature to change.

reply to post by benrl


I don't remember reading about this. But I agree. I understand there are a lot of negatives with drugs. I feel there is a better alternative out there then fines, jail or prison. It's chaotic and everything has gotten worse.

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by benrl

 

I don't remember reading about this. But I agree. I understand there are a lot of negatives with drugs. I feel there is a better alternative out there then fines, jail or prison. It's chaotic and everything has gotten worse.

that was in 98 when 3 strikes was still new in CA, I don't know if it made the papers, but I know we (his class mates) where all worried he was going away for life for the 3 strikes.

reply to post by Toadmund


Exactly! I agree the drugs are addicting, but people are responsible for keeping away and controlling their urges. The drug war has resulted in more chaos and corruption. Sad to see money is made off people's misery.

reply to post by benrl


I understand it's scary. Imagine how easy it is to go to jail or prison if you commit a small crime.