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The Dreaded Gun ownership rant

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posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 11:00 AM
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So first i want people to understand... i like guns, really, i like the smell of gun powder, i like the adrenaline shooting them, i was weapons trained relatively young as i was in the cadets, im seriously considering joining a gun club so i can shoot again.

My opinion here is not based on disliking guns, is not based on my desire to watch the American constitution burn, i don’t think the banning of guns will solve all the crime based problems in the US

i also appreciate Gun owners on here like to argue there points etc, and this is why i put this in rants, because this is my Rant about the issue, this is why the forum destroying opinions on here annoy me so much...


the facts......




United Kingdom ! United Kingdom

0.25 (2010) 0.04 (2010) 0.18 (2010) 0.01 (2010) 0.02 (2010)

United States ! United States

10.3 (2011) 3.60 (2011) 6.30 (2011) 0.30 (2011) 0.10 (2011)
So those figures are


Per 100,000 people within the country


Total (calculated) Homicides Suicides Unintentional Undetermined



So as you can see straight off the back, in UK where Gun control (especially for recreational usage) is much tighter, there is a massive difference in murders throughout the UK a huge difference in suicides to.

If you don’t have access to a gun, you cannot commit a crime of passion with it, emotions can make you shoot someone if you don’t have a gun to shoot someone with, you can shoot yourself if you don’t have a gun to shoot yourself with…

the LOGIC in the argument for guns is flawed as if you have a gun you can use it…


Although I understand the second amendment, I understand the right to protect yourself, we in the UK banned guns… and we get killed by guns less… this is fact!


Alas there shall be a flame war but it’s my opinion!!




posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 11:07 AM
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Oh dear you just opened a great big can of worms....

Iam from the UK and we don't need them ,even though we can get them here is my local gunsmith

www.aaronwheelergunsmith.co.uk... (The blunderbus I always look at has been sold
)

(thought I would get that in before my American pals said we are disarmed)

BUT I can understand why Americans own guns, they have some right nasty critters living in the wild from bears to cougars and If I was hiking about I would want one.

It is in their culture same as Monarchy is in ours, we should respect them and they should respect ours.
edit on 30-7-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 11:11 AM
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Your statement that guns are banned in the UK is incorrect. It is handgun ownership that is illegal, rifle, shotguns, etc may all be legally owned in the UK, firearms being illegal is common misconception commonly held by many Americans. I have lost count of the amount times I have had to correct a US based member on that one after being referred to a dis armed Brit. Firearm ownership is subject to criminal background checks but it is not illegal.



posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by boymonkey74
Oh dear you just opened a great big can of worms....

Iam from the UK and we don't need them ,even though we can get them here is my local gunsmith

www.aaronwheelergunsmith.co.uk... (The blunderbus I always look at has been sold
)

(thought I would get that in before my American pals said we are disarmed)

BUT I can understand why Americans own guns, they have some right nasty critters living in the wild from bears to cougars and If I was hiking about I would want one.

It is in their culture same as Monarchy is in ours, we should respect them and they should respect ours.
edit on 30-7-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)


Hello again BM, see you beat me to it. It makes a change to have to correct someone on this side of the pond on the UK firearms laws.



posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 11:17 AM
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Lets see, the bears in my area can take down a 350lbs cow and drag it 150 yards in the woods. Im keeping my guns. Its un safe to not have a gun on you unless you want to be a bear snack.

On the ranch i always carry my .45 sidearm on a drop leg holster and the .308 in the truck.

I can see where city folks dont understand why people need guns because there use to being "safe" In the city patrolled by police. In the country, a police officer is 25 minutes away and your always under threat of wild life attacks.
edit on 30-7-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 

It's a pretty good idea to have access to firearms in the rural part of the UK I live in because when you call the police for help they don't give you an arrival time, they instead give you a possible arrival date.



posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by GonzoSinister
 


Greetings Scotland, Arizona here. I would gladly trade homes for 1 year with you. I'll live in Scotland without any firearms and you live here in Arizona without any.

Be mindful of the Wolves, Coyotes, Javelinas, Mountain Lions, Bears, Diamondback Rattlesnakes, Drug Cartels (armed), Illegal Alien Smugglers (armed), Home Invaders (armed), Mexican Gangs (armed), Meth Adicts (armed). Good luck your going to need it.

By the way Police response is 30 mins or more to a 911 (999)



posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Carreau
 


The OP's info is inaccurate in terms of UK firearms law. You could come to Scotland or anywhere else in the UK and legally hold a firearm if you became resident. Maybe a newly independent Scotland will ban firearms.

edit on 30-7-2013 by hotel1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 12:55 PM
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Sorry guys was traveling home from work, yes I am aware it is hand guns which are banned
However to own a shotgun for example means you are expected to store it correctly where you will at least once a year be subjected to a check from the police!

Certainly in the west of Scotland that occurs, generally you won't get a license without a reason

And clearly I'm aware you can have rifles due to the comment about gun club!

It is however incredibly regulated! In terms of caliber and
Weapon type in most cases you need a genuine reason for purchase!


Also I get how in some places you need a weapon, say for hunting or protection against an animal!

However an AR15 for protection on a street is overkill!



posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by hotel1
 


Like I said I am aware of the laws regarding all weapons in the uk, with some immediate friends owning various fire arms!

The issue is there is no need for a standard 9-5 human being living in a housing estate, car, 2.5 kids tone armed!



posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 



In the country, a police officer is 25 minutes away and your always under threat of wild life attacks.


These days, meth heads pose a more common threat. And, like you said, by the time the local police would get there, forget it. In the country, takes us a while just to get to town...so yeah, we kind of have to police our own property. Such things are the REAL reasons behind stand your ground laws, etc.



posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by GonzoSinister
reply to post by hotel1
 


Like I said I am aware of the laws regarding all weapons in the uk, with some immediate friends owning various fire arms!

The issue is there is no need for a standard 9-5 human being living in a housing estate, car, 2.5 kids tone armed!


I would say there are probably plenty of housing estates in the UK where it would be desirable to be armed to feel safe legally or otherwise.



posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by GonzoSinister
 


What is it with "ranters" today. Sheesh~

Your a enigma of a rant. You like guns. You want to watch the constitution burn and then you compare the UK and there crime rates to America?

F A I L

Your whole rant nullifies anything or one that would attempt to debate you. All you wanted was to say your piece and your piece is right, everyone else is wrong.

Your in Scotland? Stay there and don't come to the U.S~ We have enough pompass individuals for all nations combined.




posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by sulaw
 


Thank you for responding in a measured informed way, and not trotting out the disarmed Brit boilerplate.



posted on Jul, 30 2013 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by GonzoSinister
 


Like any statistical comparison, one needs a control group. The UK and US are very different animals and makes a sound comparison difficult.

Most of the firearm homicides in the US are committed with handguns. By far. I am being lazy but I think the if we took those out of the equation, the side-by-side would be less dramatic. Those handgun homicides are geographically skewed and not strongly related to handgun ownership. Yeah, that sounds contradictory but most folks who own hand guns do not commit crimes. Only in some areas of the country are the nut jobs working over time with their hand guns (mostly illegal) to fuel the fire.

The biggest push back you will get is why extinguish a freedom for all by the actions of a few who will follow no laws anyway? At that rate you smother everyone in state control.



posted on Jul, 31 2013 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by sulaw
reply to post by GonzoSinister
 


What is it with "ranters" today. Sheesh~

Your a enigma of a rant. You like guns. You want to watch the constitution burn and then you compare the UK and there crime rates to America?

F A I L

Your whole rant nullifies anything or one that would attempt to debate you. All you wanted was to say your piece and your piece is right, everyone else is wrong.

Your in Scotland? Stay there and don't come to the U.S~ We have enough pompass individuals for all nations combined.



thats not enitrley true,

i do like guns, there is a time an place for them, but surley you can see the benefits of tighter restrcitions to firearms? i am willing to listen to reason, i appreaciate you cant blanket ban guns, especially if they are used as a tool, say for hunting, livestock protection, wilderness living, i really see no issue with them, my underlying issue is with assualt rifle ownership for protection, seems extreme, for example, if i was putting up a fence and needed to nail pieces of wood together, i could use a standard claw hammer or i could use a sledge hammer, the sledge hammer obviously being overkill for the job in hand.

if you look at numbers from around the world if the gun restrcitions are greater the gun crime reduces, if the general every day man on the street only needs a gun to protect his home (other than a clear issue with safety within the country in question) the gun should fit purpose.

i love america too, i enjoy visitng there im not critizing the country as a whole, i am just saying this is my view based on the numbers i can produce, by all means if you can show me numbers which relate to blanket law on certain weapon ownership without scrutiny\licenses\regular police checks\proper reason for purchase etc. that show a marked increase in crime that can be directly linked to the lack of the Gun based deterant i would like to see them.

This isnt about watching the constitution burn its about being progressive, if you dont need a weapon which can cause you to take a life on a whim\whilst being influenced by emotion\through an error of judgement before a reasonable time can be taken to fully asses the situation then you shouldnt have one. i Get American feel it is there right, but really owning a gun is a priveldge, not a right, owning a car is a priveldge, owning an ipod is a privledge.. its a material possesion which you have no god given right to own.



posted on Jul, 31 2013 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by GonzoSinister

So first i want people to understand... i like guns, really, i like the smell of gun powder, i like the adrenaline shooting them, i was weapons trained relatively young as i was in the cadets, im seriously considering joining a gun club so i can shoot again.

My opinion here is not based on disliking guns, is not based on my desire to watch the American constitution burn, i don’t think the banning of guns will solve all the crime based problems in the US

i also appreciate Gun owners on here like to argue there points etc, and this is why i put this in rants, because this is my Rant about the issue, this is why the forum destroying opinions on here annoy me so much...


the facts......




United Kingdom ! United Kingdom

0.25 (2010) 0.04 (2010) 0.18 (2010) 0.01 (2010) 0.02 (2010)

United States ! United States

10.3 (2011) 3.60 (2011) 6.30 (2011) 0.30 (2011) 0.10 (2011)
So those figures are


Per 100,000 people within the country


Total (calculated) Homicides Suicides Unintentional Undetermined



So as you can see straight off the back, in UK where Gun control (especially for recreational usage) is much tighter, there is a massive difference in murders throughout the UK a huge difference in suicides to.

If you don’t have access to a gun, you cannot commit a crime of passion with it, emotions can make you shoot someone if you don’t have a gun to shoot someone with, you can shoot yourself if you don’t have a gun to shoot yourself with…

the LOGIC in the argument for guns is flawed as if you have a gun you can use it…


Although I understand the second amendment, I understand the right to protect yourself, we in the UK banned guns… and we get killed by guns less… this is fact!


Alas there shall be a flame war but it’s my opinion!!


However, your murder rate has actually gone up since guns were banned and the highest suicide rate in the world, Japan, has some of the worlds strictest gun control laws. The true logic is that banning an inanimate object does not change human behavior.

"gun crime" is a disingenuous phrase used by anti gun folks because it belies the facts that crime and murders were not prevented by laws banning or restricting an inanimate object.
edit on 31-7-2013 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)


As for "privilege," you are incorrect. In the US, owning a firearm is a right, just as voting, free speech, and freedom of religion. If one believes that an individual has the fundamental right to defend himself and others then one also must accept that one has the fundamental right to the tools for said defense.
edit on 31-7-2013 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2013 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by GonzoSinister
 


BTW if you think "guns" are the problem in the US here's a little factoid. More homicides are committed in the US every year without Firearms than with.



16,799 homicides without firearms compared to 11,493 with firearms.





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