Housing benefit challenge dismissed by High Court

And whats going to happen when you run out of other peoples money?? Quit whining and get a job

reply to post by AthiestJesus

so food and shelter for disabled people is an unnecessary entitlement ?

What about nappies and care ... those too ?

You want us to let disabled people just die whilst drowning them out with the MSM "thinkbox" ?

WHAT?

Don’t make fallacious arguments. The issue is that people with an extra room are being forced to downsize or lose £15 of the FREE MONEY they receive. That is hardly starving people or letting people die!

Originally posted by AthiestJesus

Originally posted by fossildog
The disabled have not been discriminated on, actually the opposite as they have been treated the same as everyone else regarding the so called bedroom tax.

Whilst no fan of the Conservatives (or any other mainstream political party) the benefit bill does need to be reduced. Thanks to 13 years of profligate spending by Labour the UK is running a massive deficit with our debt increasing year on year by 100bn +. Having been brought up as one of five children living in a small 3 bedroom council house it appears absurd that people are complaining that they are getting slightly less free money than before for their state provided house with an unused extra bedroom. I guess it is a result of the selfish culture we live in today where people expect something for nothing and complain if they do not get it.

edit on 30-7-2013 by fossildog because: Speeling

You're a tory ..... your post says so.

Show me the figures for a 1,300 Billion pound defecit ran up by labour ...... B.S

The government is wiping out the working class then stamping us into poverty .... whilst letting bankers and lobbyist Lords make more money than they did under labour.
You people know nothing about ecenomics if you think the benefit system was a problem. youre just selfish , ignorant , greedy , people.

Not a Tory at all and I would appreciate if you keep things civil and stop throwing around the insults.

Here is a graph from The Guardian showing how the budget deficit grew under Labour




As you can see from the link Labour left the Tories with a 150bn deficit. This is unsustainable. By the way, you have spelled economics incorrectly which seems to show how much you know about it. Like I said I am not a fan of any major party in the UK, I am just fed up of seeing my ever increasing tax bill being squandered by successive governments.

reply to post by seabag


You said the takers of society don't get to make the rules. I beg to differ there. The elite make the rules so they can take from society. Which is why backwards policies such as this one have been introduced. It is all to pay for the banksters theft of our money, and the governments inability to spend responsibly. No way should they be taking from those with next to nothing, and taking what gives the disabled as close to a decent standard of living as they can get.

Sure the benefits culture needs addressing, but has been said, maybe by dealing with the migrant welfare tourists should be a priority. Maybe by not giving aid to nations that misspend their riches on space programs while many parts of their country are ravaged by poverty, and to such a degree their children don't eat hygienic food and risk dying of food poisoning. Maybe by not bailing out corrupt entities that are nothing more than parasitic vampires on society.

And to the person who said they should get a job, why don't you get off your ignorant backside and work out why?

Its a shame that people have abused the system and spoilt it for others.
I have come to realise a few people I know are on DLA ( I thought they were on jobseekers) for back problem or depression, yet can do sports, go hiking, camping and clubbing yet and have huge 3 bedroom houses paid for when there's only 1 or 2 of them and they blatantly don't need it.

so yes for the genuine its a huge shame and shock, but as I said before people have spoilt it with lies.

plus I think a lot of people have developed this sense of entitlement. I want this, I deserve that, I know my rights....sorry reality check this is life, be grateful we are not homeless, starving or being torn apart by war.

EDIT: maybe if we all rallied together over mass corporate tax avoidance and government spying, there'd be more money in the pot for society and more control over the government.

reply to post by christafinias


And we should be fighting to stop these predators from taking away what we have. Our ancestors fought to get our way of life. They must be spinning in their graves to see what has become of the nation they fought hard to stop fascists taking control of, being robbed by a new wave of corporate fascists.

Yes we are not currently at war. Yes we have a good welfare system that supports those in need. Why are so many people in favour of its abolishment? You will be first to complain if you are in need of a safety net and there is nothing for you because you either fought for its removal, or failed to fight to keep it in place.

There are those who abuse benefits, but they are relatively few. Of course the government sponsored media will jump at the chance to vilify anyone on benefits by exaggerating cheats. The fact is though, the vast majority of people on benefits are those who ARE legally entitled to be so. Everyone should have a reasonable standard of living. Even prisoners get a good standard of living in this country, so why deny the rest of us guaranteed food and shelter?

Originally posted by christafinias
Its a shame that people have abused the system and spoilt it for others.
I have come to realise a few people I know are on DLA ( I thought they were on jobseekers) for back problem or depression, yet can do sports, go hiking, camping and clubbing yet and have huge 3 bedroom houses paid for when there's only 1 or 2 of them and they blatantly don't need it.

so yes for the genuine its a huge shame and shock, but as I said before people have spoilt it with lies.

plus I think a lot of people have developed this sense of entitlement. I want this, I deserve that, I know my rights....sorry reality check this is life, be grateful we are not homeless, starving or being torn apart by war.

EDIT: maybe if we all rallied together over mass corporate tax avoidance and government spying, there'd be more money in the pot for society and more control over the government.

edit on 30-7-2013 by christafinias because: add

You might not be homeless or starving but millions are in this country . I have been there myself and i wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy.

We are torn apart by war ..... illegal wars waged without declaration .

Also there is the class war - mega rich making middle class poor - and the poor homeless.

reply to post by fossildog


So your source is a conservative paper ?

This whole country is drowning in bias propaganda.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by AthiestJesus

 

so food and shelter for disabled people is an unnecessary entitlement ?

What about nappies and care ... those too ?

You want us to let disabled people just die whilst drowning them out with the MSM "thinkbox" ?

WHAT?

Don’t make fallacious arguments. The issue is that people with an extra room are being forced to downsize or lose £15 of the FREE MONEY they receive. That is hardly starving people or letting people die!

most of them have already contributed before claiming ...... but you see them all as leeches on taxes - yet have no problem with dave and his pals taking every penny for themselves ? ...

To most of these people 15 pounds makes the difference .......... how dare you laugh at such a disgusting situation.

Disabled people need spare rooms for equipment and/or incase a carer needs to stay overnight.

Forcing a disabled person out of their home for the sake of 15 quid is sickening . Defending it is worse.

Originally posted by Firefly_
reply to post by christafinias

 

And we should be fighting to stop these predators from taking away what we have. Our ancestors fought to get our way of life. They must be spinning in their graves to see what has become of the nation they fought hard to stop fascists taking control of, being robbed by a new wave of corporate fascists.

yes they fought and worked hard, but 1906/1908, it was for basic welfare not for alcoholics, drug addicts or people to buy tabs, have sky tv. so when people have to go back to a house they don't particularly like, or have to buy cheaper, basic food, stop smoking and drinking, they don't like it there. yes disabled people don't apply to all of that but our ancestors also had large, close family's that look after and supported there ill, sick and disabled (mostly)

Yes we are not currently at war. Yes we have a good welfare system that supports those in need. Why are so many people in favour of its abolishment? You will be first to complain if you are in need of a safety net and there is nothing for you because you either fought for its removal, or failed to fight to keep it in place.

its not that we want it abolished, well at least I don't but it does need a shake up. people have become work shy and 'job snobs', it needs to be a safety net last means, not a way of existence.
i'm 26, worked all of my life, except for 1 month when I was about 20, where I hit a really low point, depression probably.....but I didn't sign on.....my mum (single working mother) kicked my but, told me to stop feeling sorry for myself and get sorted.
I have a sever back problem that will get worse and kidney trouble, I still work and my company helps me out and is very understanding, so I hope I don't need to use it.

There are those who abuse benefits, but they are relatively few. Of course the government sponsored media will jump at the chance to vilify anyone on benefits by exaggerating cheats

normally I agree the media is the governments machine, in this instance I strongly disagree, maybe its just the town i'm from but loads are on the sick or jobseekers and there is NOTHING wrong with them, this I know for fact because I no them. being an alcoholic seems to be the new trend, as you get more money, they all talk about how you have to keep going down the doctors, stinking of drink and also get arrested for drunk and disorderly.

The fact is though, the vast majority of people on benefits are those who ARE legally entitled to be so.

do you have any evidence for this? I haven't seen any figures or facts anywhere on this.

Even prisoners get a good standard of living in this country, so why deny the rest of us guaranteed food and shelter?

I agree food and shelter... but they not cutting that off. its if you have empty, unused rooms either move or pay because larger houses can be used for family's, that if the family's where crammed in a 1 bedroom flat/house that would be breaching there human rights and also the law if there's different, sex siblings over a certain age (13 I think)

I apologise for my bluntness, please don't take it personal but after many years of watching people genuinely take the [snip] and watching £400 to £500 quid being taken out of my wages every month, I feel strongly on this subject. I think being in the north east and not seeing many immigrants just spongers is why our views differ.

I also apologise for my spelling and grammar, its late i'm tired, got to get up early for work.

Originally posted by AthiestJesus

Originally posted by christafinias
Its a shame that people have abused the system and spoilt it for others.
I have come to realise a few people I know are on DLA ( I thought they were on jobseekers) for back problem or depression, yet can do sports, go hiking, camping and clubbing yet and have huge 3 bedroom houses paid for when there's only 1 or 2 of them and they blatantly don't need it.

so yes for the genuine its a huge shame and shock, but as I said before people have spoilt it with lies.

plus I think a lot of people have developed this sense of entitlement. I want this, I deserve that, I know my rights....sorry reality check this is life, be grateful we are not homeless, starving or being torn apart by war.

EDIT: maybe if we all rallied together over mass corporate tax avoidance and government spying, there'd be more money in the pot for society and more control over the government.

edit on 30-7-2013 by christafinias because: add

You might not be homeless or starving but millions are in this country . I have been there myself and i wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy.

i'm tired so i'll keep this short. food bank, family, benefits (if used properly)

We are torn apart by war ..... illegal wars waged without declaration .

totally agree the illegal wars are wrong and affect us greatly, but again i'll keep it short.
I was meaning we don't wake up constantly to the sound of mortars, air raid sirens, shoot outs in the street like Egypt, Syria, ect. we don't hide in fear for our lives constantly.

Also there is the class war - mega rich making middle class poor - and the poor homeless.

cruel fact of life i'm afraid, go back in history its always been the same. it was once survival of the fittest and strongest then it became the richest or who you knew.

I consider this issue to be obscene, for it doesnt matter if you're one room over or one room short, as the saying goes, just being able to find a place at all that is affordable, and then being able to convince someone to rent to a disabled person, or single mom, etc etc, is a miracle in itself. I sleep in the living room.

Being programmed by the demons and satanists so you speak and believe their crapola when all can and should be on their own farms and aquaponics, is the main reason for earth zone hell planets.

Here are the things that have to be overcome in people to graduate off this planet: war, violence, murder, slavery, homelessness, poverty, and inequality.

Not to mention disrupting vulnerable people from services and medical, children from schools. This is obscene and its not the governments business who has an extra room. Who would ever give into such tyranny for their own families, the middle class OR the poor?

I wouldn't be paying their taxes at all.

reply to post by Firefly_


The real problem is that people were given 2 or 3 bedroom social housing in the first place because there were not enough I bedroom properties in the U.K.
There still aren't unless you rent private which is out of most working class people's wage range.
The real reason they are doing this is to force people to rent their spare rooms out, as there is a big housing crises due to all the immigrants coming to Britain.
But of course, well off people can keep as many spare rooms as they like, as usual.
Blatent discrimination if you ask me.

reply to post by LILY9


I wonder how many spare rooms the Royal Family has? I'm sure they're getting a huge tax bill for all those empty rooms in the families numerous massive houses.

All in it together in the UK, rich and poor young and old.

Man I hope some of you never become sick, disabled or unemployed and have the misfortune of having a spare room or two or even worse, a Mortgage,
Because you are seeing the destruction of the welfare state before your very eyes...You might not need it now but i can guarantee you or someone you love will rely on a benefit of some kind at some point...Hold on, Child "BENEFIT"...who here claims that and doesn't really need it...But hey, it's free money, right.

The 40,40,40 con Job..

You work 40 hours a week to make someone else a very rich man, you do this for 40 years.
At the end of your working life you get a pension of around 40% of what you couldn't afford to live on in the first place...yeah, gotta love how it's all worked out.

Gotta love working for the MAN.

Maybe if this and previous Governments cut back the Billions spent on Warfare we could afford Welfare.

Originally posted by AthiestJesus

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by AthiestJesus

 

so food and shelter for disabled people is an unnecessary entitlement ?

What about nappies and care ... those too ?

You want us to let disabled people just die whilst drowning them out with the MSM "thinkbox" ?

WHAT?

Don’t make fallacious arguments. The issue is that people with an extra room are being forced to downsize or lose £15 of the FREE MONEY they receive. That is hardly starving people or letting people die!

most of them have already contributed before claiming ...... but you see them all as leeches on taxes - yet have no problem with dave and his pals taking every penny for themselves ? ...

Do you know most of them?? have you got some evidence to back that up? thats a rather bold statement MOST have contributed......Do you know most people??

Originally posted by LILY9
reply to post by Firefly_

 

well off people can keep as many spare rooms as they like, as usual.
Blatent discrimination if you ask me.

I'm not well off, but i do have spare rooms, but then i also work.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
reply to post by Firefly_

 

Its disgusting isn't it

But this is what you get with a tory government, more for them, less for everyone else.

They better appeal.

Dirty tory Scumbags

I don’t disagree that many within your government (and my own) may very well be sumbags but how does responsibly managing excess spending make them scumbags? Would you rather they spend even more on unnecessary entitlements?

I would rather they abolish the unnecessary luxury entitlements MP's themselves get before they tell anyone else they can't have taxpayer money.

How can it be right that they tell people they have to pay for having a spare room or move, but MP's still get their free second homes which probably have LOADS of spare rooms, and at a massive cost to taxpayers - Such hypocrites! I can guarantee that taxpayers don't want to pay for THEM either, especially since MP's are quite wealthy and can easily afford to buy a 2nd home with their own money. Rich people shouldn't be allowed to claim ANY taxpayer money apart from their salary.

Any help from taxpayer funds is means-tested for everyone in the country, you have to be destitute to claim anything, except MP's. Despite their personal wealth and despite their good salaries, they still dip their bread in the taxpayer pot whenever they like and soak up free money to pay for their luxury lifestyles. These are the real parasites of our society.

I don't begrudge disabled people a decent home, we are supposed to be a civilized society and that means taking care of our weakest and most vulnerable - if we deliberately avoid taking care of them, how can we describe ourselves as 'civilized'?

Originally posted by Firefly_
Yet another disgusting ruling by the corrupt elite:

Disabled families have lost a court challenge to social housing benefit cuts for residents with spare bedrooms in England, Wales and Scotland.

The heroes of this situation are taking this as high up as they can, I hold no hope for them in the UK but hopefully the European court (if they are allowed access) will rule in their favour. (and if they do so, you can bet it will hasten the UK's withdrawal from the EU courts).

edit on 30-7-2013 by Firefly_ because: (no reason given)

edit on Tue Jul 30 2013 by DontTreadOnMe because: EX TAGS

hmmmm now Europes not such a bad idea...

Originally posted by Sk8ergrl
Why should the disabled and sick people be penalised now after so many years just because they have a spare room?

They are not. Disabled people get extra additional assistance. This habit of citing “human rights” at every turn is distasteful. In my opinion, this case is just a crass attempt to use the disabled to make a political point and that’s rather sad. I am pleased that the legal process has resulted in common sense prevailing, although the High Court did criticise the policy on a number of counts, which the Government has said they will review.

The fact is that people who require big houses get them paid for by the State. If a family of ten arrives at the local Council offices they are moved into a house that can keep them all together. When the kids leave, the parents are allowed to sit in that large house at the cost of the tax payer. That’s frankly unfair, but they don’t care because there is no incentive for them to move.

All the so called “bedroom tax” is doing is paying less cash to people who sit in properties paid for by the tax payer, where the property is bigger than their needs. It is supposed to incentivise these people to downsize, thus releasing these properties to people who need them. They will still receive State aid and still get to live quite nicely, thank you very much.

Housing benefit costs the UK tax payer over £20 billion. Anything that can be done to reduce the costs while preserving the need to help people live in a house is a good idea.

Regards